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Occultations

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  • Branka
    Hi Everybody, Joined just recently, and already enjoing reading the discussions. Since the list came to life on my Solar return, it s probably quite natural, I
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 7, 2005
      Hi Everybody,

      Joined just recently, and already enjoing reading the discussions.
      Since the list came to life on my Solar return, it's probably quite natural,
      I guess.:-)
      Some questions and comments on the most fascinating occultation discussion:


      Bernadette:
      > >Since this is a fixed star group for astrologers would it not be good if
      we
      > >all agreed that saying that a planet is "conjunct a star" could be
      > >considered a confusion of terms.

      Now, I'm confused. I always thought that 'conjunct' refers to alignement via
      longitude (I'm talking planets here, not stars, but is there a difference?).
      Am not sure if there's a separate term for the conjunction via latitude, but
      the declination conjunction has a term 'paralel', doesn't it? And, if there
      is a term 'occultation' out there to define the situation in which planet is
      not conjunct just in one of those systems of measurement, but is literarly
      'eclipsed' (occultation), then why would there be a need for another term?
      I'm just curious. And a bit worried that intro of another phrase for the
      same thing (if it is a same thing?) might confuse things further. I'm no
      expert in fixed stars (far from it), so really would appreciate an
      explanation of how their conjucntions/paralels/occultations with planets
      differ from those alignements of planets with planets.


      Bernadette:
      > ...> special note in the next issue of the Visual Astrology Newsletter -
      which
      > goes out to nearly 3,000 astrologers (planned to be sent out this weekend)

      I wasn't aware of this newsletter! Thanks for providing a link.
      Most interesting "Gathering of Kings" article in February issue, explaining
      a rare alignement of planets and stars in the heavens, finishing by a sort
      of prediction for the period Feb-June 2005:

      "Will there be a Gathering of Kings?
      Will there be a special meeting of the UN?
      Will there be a gathering of the College of Cardinals in Rome due to the
      death of the Pope?
      Will a crown be handed to a Crown Prince, officially or unofficially?"

      Not that there will be just a gathering of College Cardinals in Rome, but
      Gathering of Kings for his funeral.


      Bernadette:
      > Here are last century's occultations with Antares
      > 1952 Aug 01 s

      Serbian Prime Minister Zoran Djinjdic, killed in March 2003, was born on
      this very date, with Moon on Antares.
      Most interesting stuff.
      May I ask how can one produce such a list of star/planet occultations, or
      even planet/planet occultations? Is it possible in SF?


      Bernadette:
      > Occultations do have meaning and there are some interesting examples but
      as
      > I said I am still trying to understand them myself.

      If my memory serves me well, occultations were considered most important in
      weather prediction - in the days when astrologers did forcasts.


      Bernadette:
      > Enjoy the ephemeris. What I think I might do is put a page up on our web
      > site with the Moon's occults of the four or five bright stars that she can
      > occult. If I get that done I will put a note on this forum.

      Oh, please, please, do!!
      I'd be as happy as a puppy!!!

      Love.
      Branka.
    • Astro Logos
      Hullo Branka, Nice to hear from you. :) I have answered your questions after each one ... Yes we use the term conjunction in astrology with no regard for
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 7, 2005
        Hullo Branka,

        Nice to hear from you. :)

        I have answered your questions after each one

        > Now, I'm confused. I always thought that 'conjunct' refers to alignement
        > via
        > longitude (I'm talking planets here, not stars, but is there a
        > difference?).

        Yes we use the term conjunction in astrology with no regard for celestial
        latitude

        > Am not sure if there's a separate term for the conjunction via latitude,
        > but
        > the declination conjunction has a term 'paralel', doesn't it?

        No a parallel exist when two planets are at the same declination - you can
        get this without the two planets being in a conjunction of ecliptical
        longitude - for example when planets are either side of the solstice
        positions one could be at 27 Gemini and the other at 5 Cancer and they could
        be at the same declination.


        > is a term 'occultation' out there to define the situation in which planet
        > is
        > not conjunct just in one of those systems of measurement, but is literarly
        > 'eclipsed' (occultation), then why would there be a need for another term?

        Yes occultation is a term for when one body blots out the other.

        We need another term in astrology because people say:

        "My Venus is conjunct Algol" ... If they say "my Venus is conjunct Mars" we
        accept that they are not taking latitude into consideration, but when they
        also apply this same thinking to stars it leads to a great deal of confusion
        in that people actually think that the star and the planet are in the same
        place (it does not cause too many problem if they think the planets are in
        the same place). By using the term alignment hopefully it will help
        astrologers to understand that there is more in the sky then just the
        ecliptic.

        Also we accept that astrology does not use its terms in the same way as
        astronomy. We use conjunctions and transits in a very different way to
        astronomers, and because we use conjunction so loosely (I do not think we
        need to use conjunction in its strict sense of the word) but what we do need
        therefore is a manner of talking about fixed star projections that does not
        place them in the same frame work as a planet to planet.

        I think I can safely say that most astrologers have a great deal of trouble
        having an awareness of the anything beyond the ecliptic, or indeed their two
        dimensional charts, therefore by using the term alignment for star planet
        combinations via projection then hopefully it will help to give them an
        awareness of the three dimensions of the starry sky.


        >
        > I wasn't aware of this newsletter! Thanks for providing a link.
        > Most interesting "Gathering of Kings" article in February issue,
        > explaining
        > a rare alignement of planets and stars in the heavens, finishing by a sort
        > of prediction for the period Feb-June 2005:
        >
        > "Will there be a Gathering of Kings?
        > Will there be a special meeting of the UN?
        > Will there be a gathering of the College of Cardinals in Rome due to the
        > death of the Pope?
        > Will a crown be handed to a Crown Prince, officially or unofficially?"
        >
        > Not that there will be just a gathering of College Cardinals in Rome, but
        > Gathering of Kings for his funeral.

        Yes it is pretty exciting stuff and it also goes to show that by actually
        looking at the sky and considering just how bright a planet is and linking
        that to the whole sky story - the Moon at a large celestial latitude while
        in Cancer, therefore being able to rise higher in the sky then normal, AND
        therefore climbing over the top of Saturn which just happens to be doing a
        retro loop amongst the stars of Gemini (The king planet mixing with other
        kings). Then we get a celestial play unfolding, a story with actors and
        plot.

        Now none of this can been seen from a horoscope, and indeed note with the
        above there are no stars involved (apart from the constellations) it is
        simply taking into account the visuals that are unfolding in the sky and
        then looking back through the writings of the Chaldean priest to see if they
        refer to the particular combinations and if so what do they say.

        This is why we put out the Visual Astrology Newsletter because in this
        post-modern world I think that it is time that astrology enhanced its
        horoscopic skills with a better awarness and knowledge of the sky.
        >
        >
        > > Serbian Prime Minister Zoran Djinjdic, killed in March 2003, was born on
        > this very date, with Moon on Antares.

        I did not know that - thank you I have made a note of that point.

        > Most interesting stuff.
        > May I ask how can one produce such a list of star/planet occultations, or
        > even planet/planet occultations? Is it possible in SF?

        No you can't do it in SF - I have worked most of them out using Jigsaw - I
        scaned slaps of ephemeris for when the Moon was at certain zodiacal degrees
        as well as at a particular celestial latitude. Then I have reconstructed the
        possible occultations in Starlight to actually check the sky and see what
        locations on earth the occultation was visible. Starlight is my main tool
        for looking at sky motiffs, bright planets etc etc.. in the next issue of
        the Visual Astrology Newsletter Darrelyn is doing a peice on reading a
        person sky story - the sky story at the moment of their birth.

        Having done all of that work I have now found some software that does it for
        me - I am putting the link etc all in the newsletter.

        OK - I hope all this helps. I must now start my day.

        Bernadette Brady
        Astro Logos
        www.astrologos.co.uk
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