- Dear Arthyr!

Thanks a lot for your useful comments, I did not find

anything earlier either, but I just wondering where

did they get the idea of having the 24-hour parans and

the heliacal rising, and setting, there must have been

an earlier source; Yours Cat-CH-Keys P.AEther

-- msbhavens1 <msbhavens1@...> wrote:

>

__________________________________________________

> what about the egyptians? Just wondering as they

> seemed far more into

> the Trig. MissB

>

> --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, Arthyr

> <awc99@...> wrote:

> >

> > Hello Peter Kecskés,

> >

> > At 11:53 PM 9/2/2006 +0000, Peter wrote:

> > > Dear All !

> > > Does anyone know what are the earliest sources

> regarding parans

> > >besides Maternus, Manilius, Hypparchus, Ptolemy,

> Eudoxos.

> >

> > (Arthyr) Well, I hate to bust a bubble but I

> really don't think

> you'll find

> > too much before

> > Hipparchus' time (BCE 150) as the early

> Babylonians really didnt

> work with

> > too much planetary phenomena outside of simple

> mathematical "zone"

> style

> > calculations. Their Main concern was the lunar

> phases, primarily

> the New

> > Moon's return at first sighting. As parans

> requires the mathematical

> > knowledge of latitude, which the Babylonians had a

> primitive

> understanding.

> > However:

> >

> > Signs and constellations rise and set with rates

> that vary as a

> function of

> > one's terrestrial latitude.

> >

> > To determine when a star or planet sets, the

> diurnal semi-arc of

> the body

> > must be found, then expressed in time, between the

> Ascendant in

> question

> > and the upper meridian.They would need to find the

> semi arc, the

> angle

> > between the ecliptic and the local horizon and the

> right angle to

> their

> > horizon.

> >

> > As you know, a planet conjoined with a star gives

> that planet a

> powerful

> > influence but the mathematical requirements to

> predict the diurnal

> motions

> > during the following 24-hour period

> > was completely out of the Babylonian mental

> makeup. One could

> perform a

> > paran style chart based purly on sunset at the

> place and date of

> birth as

> > that is important, but the Chaldean astrologers

> were much more

> interested

> > in the synodic periods, they devised "Zones" in

> their calculations

> that

> > were by no means as sophisticated as the

> Hellenist's spherical

> > trigonometry. This is because parans are based on

> examining the

> times when

> > stars and planets are at the key moments of their

> diurnal movement,

> i.e.

> > either on the Ascendant, M.C. Descendant and even

> the I.C -

> something the

> > Chaldeans weren't aware of calculating.

> >

> > The formula is:

> > Sine ascensional difference = (tangent declination

> [planet])

> (tangent

> > latitude [place])

> > where declination is the declination of the body

> and latitude is the

> > terrestrial latitude of the place.If the (A/D)

> ascentional

> difference is

> > positive add it to 90degrees; subtract from

> 90degrees if negative.

> Having

> > added the A/D as necessary, divide by 15 (15

> degrees = 1 hour of

> time). The

> > result of this division is the diurnal semi-arc of

> the planet or

> star.

> >

> > (Peter) I'm doing a research with parans and I

> would like to know

> if there

> > are more

> > >obscure source-materials on this topic; I'm

> thinking of some

> genuine

> > >babylonian materials, not hellenistic stuff.

> Bernadette might know

> the

> > >answer, Your help would be appreciated, Thanks in

> advance Peter

> > >Kecskés

> >

> > (A) Peter, because of the math, you're already in

> the middle of the

> > playground

> > for your research. The Hellenistic sholars were

> the culprits in

> designing

> > this system and I don't think you'll find anything

> earlier.

> >

> > Best regards and well wishes,

> > Arthyr

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com No Earlier Parans? I am not an expert in early mathematical astronomy/astrology,

but one of the best books I ever read on the subject is

"A History of Astronomy" by A Pannekoek - I believe it is still

available in a Dover reprint of an English translationI recommend it most highly

Love, Diana