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Re: Nicea Dates

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  • msbhavens1
    If you are refering to the wikipedia article, the sources are listed at the bottom of the page? MissB ... sighand ... a ... moon ... Descendant ... Time, ...
    Message 1 of 14 , May 24 3:21 PM
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      If you are refering to the wikipedia article, the sources are listed
      at the bottom of the page?

      MissB

      --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "mahtezcatpoc"
      <mahtezcatpoc@...> wrote:
      >
      > Where does McNaughton get his data?
      >
      > Mark A. Holmes
      >
      > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "msbhavens1" <msbhavens1@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Somehow that reminds me too vividly of the rape of medusa.
      sighand
      > > jupiter & uranus on Dsc, the king is dead long live the king?
      > >
      > > MissB
      > >
      > > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, sisterbellabee@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > I also have July 19 0325 for the Council of Nicaea, located in
      > > Iznik,
      > > > Turkey, 40N26, 29E43 (per astrologer Brian McNaughton)
      > > >
      > > > The stellium, Jupiter-Uranus-Pluto square to Neptune, is quite
      a
      > > cosmic
      > > > moment! Shortly after dawn, a chart for the third quarter
      moon
      > > on that day in
      > > > Turkey (at 6:36 am LMT), shows Jupiter/Uranus at the
      Descendant
      > > and Neptune at
      > > > the IC.
      > > >
      > > > Sincerely, Sherri
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > In a message dated 05/23/2006 3:19:45 PM Pacific Daylight
      Time,
      > > > msbhavens1@ writes:
      > > >
      > > > I get from this site
      > > > http://www.answers.com/topic/first-council-of-nicaea
      > > >
      > > > for a start date it only says that the bishops were called to
      > the
      > > > council in the Summer of 325, I didn't see an actual start
      date
      > > or a
      > > > date for the summons? 1800 invited somewhere between 270 and
      > 318
      > > > attended.
      > > >
      > > > 19 June 325 AD the first decision was agreed upon, that Jesus
      > was
      > > > indeed God,
      > > >
      > > > and that the synod ended on 25 July 325,
      > > >
      > > > I dont see corrdinates for Nicea? anyone know? Missb
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Mark Andrew Holmes
      June 19, 325 at noon LMT in Iznik, Turkey has the following: Sun, Saturn Castor (Alpha Geminorum) Propus Borealis (Iota Geminorum) Mercury Dirah (Mu Geminorum)
      Message 2 of 14 , May 24 5:54 PM
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        June 19, 325 at noon LMT in Iznik, Turkey has the
        following:


        Sun, Saturn

        Castor (Alpha Geminorum)

        Propus Borealis (Iota Geminorum)


        Mercury

        Dirah (Mu Geminorum)


        Mars

        Seginus (Gamma Bootis)


        Neptune

        Acrab (Beta Scorpii)


        North Node

        Dubhe (Alpha Ursae Majoris)


        Mark A. Holmes



        > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "msbhavens1"
        > <msbhavens1@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > Somehow that reminds me too vividly of the rape of
        > medusa. sighand
        > > jupiter & uranus on Dsc, the king is dead long
        > live the king?
        > >
        > > MissB
        > >
        > > --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com,
        > sisterbellabee@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > I also have July 19 0325 for the Council of
        > Nicaea, located in
        > > Iznik,
        > > > Turkey, 40N26, 29E43 (per astrologer Brian
        > McNaughton)
        > > >
        > > > The stellium, Jupiter-Uranus-Pluto square to
        > Neptune, is quite a
        > > cosmic
        > > > moment! Shortly after dawn, a chart for the
        > third quarter moon
        > > on that day in
        > > > Turkey (at 6:36 am LMT), shows Jupiter/Uranus at
        > the Descendant
        > > and Neptune at
        > > > the IC.
        > > >
        > > > Sincerely, Sherri
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > In a message dated 05/23/2006 3:19:45 PM Pacific
        > Daylight Time,
        > > > msbhavens1@ writes:
        > > >
        > > > I get from this site
        > > >
        > http://www.answers.com/topic/first-council-of-nicaea
        > > >
        > > > for a start date it only says that the bishops
        > were called to
        > the
        > > > council in the Summer of 325, I didn't see an
        > actual start date
        > > or a
        > > > date for the summons? 1800 invited somewhere
        > between 270 and
        > 318
        > > > attended.
        > > >
        > > > 19 June 325 AD the first decision was agreed
        > upon, that Jesus
        > was
        > > > indeed God,
        > > >
        > > > and that the synod ended on 25 July 325,
        > > >
        > > > I dont see corrdinates for Nicea? anyone know?
        > Missb
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >


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      • sisterbellabee@aol.com
        In a message dated 05/23/2006 4:14:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, msbhavens1@yahoo.com writes: I READ ONE END DATE AS 25 AUGUST AND ONE AS 25 JULY 325 AD, SO
        Message 3 of 14 , May 24 11:37 PM
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          In a message dated 05/23/2006 4:14:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, msbhavens1@... writes:

          I READ ONE END DATE AS 25 AUGUST AND ONE AS 25 JULY 325 AD, SO I'LL
          PUT UP INFO FOR BOTH
          Hi there, according to the Catholic Alamanac:  "attended by approximately 300 bishops; sessions held between May 20 or June 19 to near the end of August."
           
          Brian McNaughton posted his data to Political Astrology, I don't know the source but could write him to ask.  (I'm not sure that should answer the question though).
           
          One of the big concerns of this council was to fix a date for Easter, they also passed regulations concerning clerical discipline; and "adopted the civil division of the Empire as the model for the organization for the Church..." (?!?)
           
          It mentions that the councils had their prototype in a Council in Jerusalem in 0051 AD, "at which the Apostels under the leadership of St. Peter decided that converts to the Christian faith were not obliged to observe all the prescriptions of Old Testament law (Acts, 15)".  I don't know if a date or even month can de be determined for that action.
           
          And so the first catholic (meaning 'universal') Easter' was on April 3, 0326 according to this site:
           
           
          "Easter Sunday is the Sunday following the Paschal Full Moon (PFM) date for the year.   In June 325 A.D. astronomers approximated astronomical full moon dates for the Christian church, calling them Ecclesiastical Full Moon (EFM) dates.   From 326 A.D. the PFM date has always been the EFM date after March 20 (which was the equinox date in 325 A.D.)."
           
          The "Ecclesiastical Full Moon" dates are approximate to the astronomical full moon dates, it appears that they average out with some consistency.
           
          I found this reference to Emperor Constantine and his relationship with the church:
           
          What stands out to me is that this established a power structure for the church through its complicity with government, regulating the holydays for conformity among countries, cultures. 
           
          Astrologically, Saturn's opposition to the square of Neptune with Uranus/Pluto feels most significant, with Jupiter, and would consider the 8th harmonic yod or 'black kite' configuration to this.  The geocentric orbs are narrowest in January 0326 with Saturn in a trioctile Yod to the square of Jupiter/Uranus with Neptune.  Heliocentrically these orbs are closer in October, 0325, and so should be considered relevant throughout the time between the council and its institution.
           
          The solar eclipse cycles during this time are fading in intensity, at their peek and crossing the node about 0090 BC in Aries and Libra (solar saros 66, 4 South and solar saros 71, 5 North).  In 0325 the nodes in Cancer is square, and so this in eclipse saros time, its a turning point in which the eclipses will fade the poles and a new cycle will begin.
           
          In the broadest strokes, it feels more like a confrontation of cardinal with embedded fixed sign paradigms... rather than the mutable of Pisces or Sagittarius we associate more with relgion or its institutions.  My sense is instituting a state with control of culture and its wealth or resource.
           
          The persepctive of the eclipse cycles, too much cultural wherewithall being imported into the paradigm, at least of this narrow phase of time.  This is an opinion, not an assessment.
           
          Sincerely, Sherri
        • msbhavens1
          I find myself agreeing with your opinion. I wonder if Constantine had a consult before he called this council? MissB ... cardinal with embedded fixed sign
          Message 4 of 14 , May 25 11:31 AM
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            I find myself agreeing with your opinion. I wonder if Constantine had
            a consult before he called this council? MissB

            > In the broadest strokes, it feels more like a confrontation of
            cardinal with embedded fixed sign paradigms... rather than the
            mutable of Pisces or Sagittarius we associate more with relgion or
            its institutions. My sense is instituting a state with control of
            culture and its wealth or resource.
            >
            > The persepctive of the eclipse cycles, too much cultural
            wherewithall being imported into the paradigm, at least of this
            narrow phase of time. This is an opinion, not an assessment.
            >
            > Sincerely, Sherri
            >
          • msbhavens1
            I put in some Info from Ann Wrights sight under the stars named, I found it interesting. MissB June 19, 325 at noon LMT in Iznik, Turkey has the following:
            Message 5 of 14 , May 25 12:04 PM
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              I put in some Info from Ann Wrights sight under the stars named, I
              found it interesting. MissB

              June 19, 325 at noon LMT in Iznik, Turkey has the
              following:

              Sun, Saturn
              Castor (Alpha Geminorum)
              Influence of the constellation: "Ptolemy makes the following
              observations; the stars in the feet of Gemini have an influence
              similar to that of Mercury, and moderately to that of Venus; the
              bright stars in the thighs are like Saturn. It is said to cause
              trouble and disgrace, sickness, loss of fortune, affliction and
              danger to the knees. By the Cabalists it is associated with the
              Hebrew letter Qoph and the 19th Tarot Trump, The Sun". (Robson).

              Of the star - It gives distinction, a keen intellect, success in law
              and many travels, fondness for horses, sudden fame and honor but
              often followed by loss of fortune and disgrace, sickness, trouble
              and great affliction. Its natives are said to be mischievous and
              prone to violence. (Robson).

              Associated with guile and duplicity. (Larousse Encyclopedia of
              Astrology).

              With Sun: Prominence in occult matters, government work dealing with
              foreign affairs, serious accidents, blows, stabs, shooting,
              shipwreck, injuries to the face, blindness, disease, violent fevers,
              evil disposition, rape or murder committed or suffered,
              imprisonment, banishment, decapitation. (Robson).

              Propus Borealis (Iota Geminorum)
              General influence of the star: It gives strength eminence and
              success. (Robson).
              We should into read this star (which is situated between the Twins'
              shoulders), qualities of co-operation, of 'two heads better than
              one' and of associative thinking, along with the Mercury-Venus
              attributes. The associative-thinking quality is very vital in the
              practice of astrology when it comes to reading an horoscope, so
              naturally Iota in a good placing on a natal chart tells us we have a
              good astrologer born there. But in psychotherapy we know too that
              associative thinking is a feature of such pathological states as
              paranoia, where quite unconnected and innocent actions by other
              people may be welded by a patient into a thrilling plot of
              conspiracy against him or her. So Iota, with the help' of nearby
              saturnine Al Wasat, may be yet another factor in the
              negative, 'nervous breakdown' qualities which we note to occur
              sometimes with Castor. Apart from drawing attention of the patient
              to the ancient historical reasons for our historical states of fear,
              a good therapy for sufferers is to encourage them to employ their
              associative-thinking capacities deliberately and usefully, so that
              they become skilled in the control of them. A good astrologer is
              preferable to a sick paranoiac any time! (Dr Eric Morse, The Living
              Stars).

              Mercury

              Dirah (Mu Geminorum) Energy, force, power, protection. (Robson).
              The ability to express ideas in reasonable and acceptable ways which
              win, because of their manifest intelligence. Al Hena with Tegat
              Posterior and Propus (Tegat Prior) entered Cancer 1349, 1621 and
              1755 AD respectively. Each of these dates, within a year or two, was
              significant in the rise of European thought and literature from the
              Renaissance onwards. (Dr. Eric Morse The Living Stars).

              Mars
              Seginus (Gamma Bootis) It gives a subtle mind, shamelessness and
              loss through friends and companies. (Robson).
              Potential for writing or public speaking. (Dr. Eric Morse).
              Neptune
              Acrab (Beta Scorpii) – star is on head of scorpion,
              General influence of the star: According to Ptolemy it is of the
              nature of Mars and Saturn; and, to Alvidas, of Jupiter in square to
              Saturn and the Moon. It causes extreme malevolence, mercilessness,
              fiendishness, repulsiveness, malice, theft, crime, pestilence, and
              contagious diseases. (Robson).
              This star and Dschubba are supposed to correspond to a Mars
              character with a blend of Saturn characteristics. Dr Koch is of the
              opinion that both these stars are 'doubtful'. The effect of these
              two stars has yet to be researched more fully. According to
              tradition, these stars are credited with giving the ability to do
              research, and especially research into things of a particularly
              secret and hidden nature. For this to be however, further influence
              of the sign Scorpio and planets Mercury and Uranus have also to be
              present; preferably these stellar bodies would be positioned on the
              MC or Ascendant and be near another stellar body pointing to mental
              capabilities. In lower types, however, a tendency to falsehood and
              treason can be noted. Both stars are a poor augury for material
              wealth. There will be difficulties, impediments, or loss, dependent
              upon the position these have in the cosmogram. In mundane maps,
              there is an indication of mass catastrophes, should either Mars,
              Saturn or Uranus be in these first degrees of Sagittarius,
              especially in an angular position. (Ebertin).

              Situated on the head of the Scorpion, not where its armament is,
              which is at the rear. It is a fighter of great skill and
              characterizes Mars-Saturn perfectly. Anyone with this star strong in
              their horoscope is likely to show a patient and wary approach to any
              situation, but this will belie the skilled determination which will
              then be brought to bear. Scorpio is famous for the surgeons born in
              it and this star shows up just the qualities which they need to
              have. The same applies to generals, policemen, private investigators
              and secret service agents, many of whom have this star well placed
              and aspected. In research of all other kinds too, it distinguishes
              the real adept. (Dr. Eric Morse).

              Associated sometimes with cruelty. (Larousse Encyclopedia of
              Astrology).

              With Neptune: Connected with science, inventions, companies, or
              journalism, breeds horses or cattle, good mind, late but favorable
              marriage but peculiar domestic conditions, accidents in middle age,
              death after lingering illness. (Robson).

              North Node

              Dubhe (Alpha Ursae Majoris)
              General influence of the star: Credited with the destructiveness of
              Mars, working itself out particularly in mundane maps, in a nasty
              way if conjunct Saturn. Conjunct Hitler's Saturn, Mao Tse Tung's
              Moon. (Ebertin).



              Mark A. Holmes
            • mahtezcatpoc
              ... Bernadette says something in *Brady s Book of Fixed Stars* about Castor seeking the bright side of the story or situation. (pp.248-249). ... The Catholic
              Message 6 of 14 , May 27 1:06 AM
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                --- In thefixedstars@yahoogroups.com, "msbhavens1" <msbhavens1@...> wrote:
                >
                > I put in some Info from Ann Wrights sight under the stars named, I
                > found it interesting. MissB
                >
                > June 19, 325 at noon LMT in Iznik, Turkey has the
                > following:
                >
                > Sun, Saturn
                > Castor (Alpha Geminorum)
                > Influence of the constellation: "Ptolemy makes the following
                > observations; the stars in the feet of Gemini have an influence
                > similar to that of Mercury, and moderately to that of Venus; the
                > bright stars in the thighs are like Saturn. It is said to cause
                > trouble and disgrace, sickness, loss of fortune, affliction and
                > danger to the knees. By the Cabalists it is associated with the
                > Hebrew letter Qoph and the 19th Tarot Trump, The Sun". (Robson).
                >
                > Of the star - It gives distinction, a keen intellect, success in law
                > and many travels, fondness for horses, sudden fame and honor but
                > often followed by loss of fortune and disgrace, sickness, trouble
                > and great affliction. Its natives are said to be mischievous and
                > prone to violence. (Robson).
                >
                > Associated with guile and duplicity. (Larousse Encyclopedia of
                > Astrology).
                >
                > With Sun: Prominence in occult matters, government work dealing with
                > foreign affairs, serious accidents, blows, stabs, shooting,
                > shipwreck, injuries to the face, blindness, disease, violent fevers,
                > evil disposition, rape or murder committed or suffered,
                > imprisonment, banishment, decapitation. (Robson).


                Bernadette says something in *Brady's Book of Fixed Stars* about
                Castor seeking "the bright side of the story or situation." (pp.248-249).

                >
                > Propus Borealis (Iota Geminorum)
                > General influence of the star: It gives strength eminence and
                > success. (Robson).
                > We should into read this star (which is situated between the Twins'
                > shoulders), qualities of co-operation, of 'two heads better than
                > one' and of associative thinking, along with the Mercury-Venus
                > attributes. The associative-thinking quality is very vital in the
                > practice of astrology when it comes to reading an horoscope, so
                > naturally Iota in a good placing on a natal chart tells us we have a
                > good astrologer born there. But in psychotherapy we know too that
                > associative thinking is a feature of such pathological states as
                > paranoia, where quite unconnected and innocent actions by other
                > people may be welded by a patient into a thrilling plot of
                > conspiracy against him or her. So Iota, with the help' of nearby
                > saturnine Al Wasat, may be yet another factor in the
                > negative, 'nervous breakdown' qualities which we note to occur
                > sometimes with Castor. Apart from drawing attention of the patient
                > to the ancient historical reasons for our historical states of fear,
                > a good therapy for sufferers is to encourage them to employ their
                > associative-thinking capacities deliberately and usefully, so that
                > they become skilled in the control of them. A good astrologer is
                > preferable to a sick paranoiac any time! (Dr Eric Morse, The Living
                > Stars).

                The Catholic Church does tend to have conspiracy theories clinging to
                it; and non-Catholic Christians have shown this tendency to claim
                religious persecution where none exists, possibly as political propaganda.


                >
                > Mercury
                >
                > Dirah (Mu Geminorum) Energy, force, power, protection. (Robson).
                > The ability to express ideas in reasonable and acceptable ways which
                > win, because of their manifest intelligence. Al Hena with Tegat
                > Posterior and Propus (Tegat Prior) entered Cancer 1349, 1621 and
                > 1755 AD respectively. Each of these dates, within a year or two, was
                > significant in the rise of European thought and literature from the
                > Renaissance onwards. (Dr. Eric Morse The Living Stars).
                >
                > Mars
                > Seginus (Gamma Bootis) It gives a subtle mind, shamelessness and
                > loss through friends and companies. (Robson).

                Collusion with fat cats, or getting involved in politics or
                government, are both, are two ways the Roman Catholic Church--and
                Christianity in general--has gotten in trouble down through the millennia.

                > Potential for writing or public speaking. (Dr. Eric Morse).



                > Neptune
                > Acrab (Beta Scorpii) – star is on head of scorpion,
                > General influence of the star: According to Ptolemy it is of the
                > nature of Mars and Saturn; and, to Alvidas, of Jupiter in square to
                > Saturn and the Moon. It causes extreme malevolence, mercilessness,
                > fiendishness, repulsiveness, malice, theft, crime, pestilence, and
                > contagious diseases. (Robson).
                > This star and Dschubba are supposed to correspond to a Mars
                > character with a blend of Saturn characteristics. Dr Koch is of the
                > opinion that both these stars are 'doubtful'. The effect of these
                > two stars has yet to be researched more fully. According to
                > tradition, these stars are credited with giving the ability to do
                > research, and especially research into things of a particularly
                > secret and hidden nature. For this to be however, further influence
                > of the sign Scorpio and planets Mercury and Uranus have also to be
                > present; preferably these stellar bodies would be positioned on the
                > MC or Ascendant and be near another stellar body pointing to mental
                > capabilities. In lower types, however, a tendency to falsehood and
                > treason can be noted. Both stars are a poor augury for material
                > wealth. There will be difficulties, impediments, or loss, dependent
                > upon the position these have in the cosmogram. In mundane maps,
                > there is an indication of mass catastrophes, should either Mars,
                > Saturn or Uranus be in these first degrees of Sagittarius,
                > especially in an angular position. (Ebertin).
                >
                > Situated on the head of the Scorpion, not where its armament is,
                > which is at the rear. It is a fighter of great skill and
                > characterizes Mars-Saturn perfectly. Anyone with this star strong in
                > their horoscope is likely to show a patient and wary approach to any
                > situation, but this will belie the skilled determination which will
                > then be brought to bear. Scorpio is famous for the surgeons born in
                > it and this star shows up just the qualities which they need to
                > have. The same applies to generals, policemen, private investigators
                > and secret service agents, many of whom have this star well placed
                > and aspected. In research of all other kinds too, it distinguishes
                > the real adept. (Dr. Eric Morse).
                >
                > Associated sometimes with cruelty. (Larousse Encyclopedia of
                > Astrology).

                The Catholic Church sometimes has been, unfortunately; and you also
                have in the Protestant denominations people like Cotton and Increase
                Mather, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps and certain Rwandan
                ministers who participated in the 1994 genocide.

                >
                > With Neptune: Connected with science, inventions, companies, or
                > journalism, breeds horses or cattle, good mind, late but favorable
                > marriage but peculiar domestic conditions, accidents in middle age,
                > death after lingering illness. (Robson).
                >
                > North Node
                >
                > Dubhe (Alpha Ursae Majoris)
                > General influence of the star: Credited with the destructiveness of
                > Mars, working itself out particularly in mundane maps, in a nasty
                > way if conjunct Saturn. Conjunct Hitler's Saturn, Mao Tse Tung's
                > Moon. (Ebertin).
                >


                From *Brady's Book of Fixed Stars*:

                "In a natal chart Dubhe indicates that your greatest strength lies in
                the position you hold, rather than the actions you take. Quiet
                strength." (p. 205)

                Mark A. Holmes
              • msbhavens1
                Uh, I m a recovering Catholic, trust me they gots pleanty to fuel those fires. thanks for the further excerts, I didnt have BBs book at hand when looking ghat
                Message 7 of 14 , May 27 9:20 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Uh, I"m a recovering Catholic, trust me they gots pleanty to fuel
                  those fires.
                  thanks for the further excerts, I didnt' have BBs book at hand when
                  looking ghat up, its at home on the shelf of course. LOL

                  MissB
                  > The Catholic Church does tend to have conspiracy theories clinging
                  to
                  > it; and non-Catholic Christians have shown this tendency to claim
                  > religious persecution where none exists, possibly as political
                  propaganda.
                  >
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Mercury
                  > >
                  > > Dirah (Mu Geminorum) Energy, force, power, protection. (Robson).
                  > > The ability to express ideas in reasonable and acceptable ways
                  which
                  > > win, because of their manifest intelligence. Al Hena with Tegat
                  > > Posterior and Propus (Tegat Prior) entered Cancer 1349, 1621 and
                  > > 1755 AD respectively. Each of these dates, within a year or two,
                  was
                  > > significant in the rise of European thought and literature from
                  the
                  > > Renaissance onwards. (Dr. Eric Morse The Living Stars).
                  > >
                  > > Mars
                  > > Seginus (Gamma Bootis) It gives a subtle mind, shamelessness and
                  > > loss through friends and companies. (Robson).
                  >
                  > Collusion with fat cats, or getting involved in politics or
                  > government, are both, are two ways the Roman Catholic Church--and
                  > Christianity in general--has gotten in trouble down through the
                  millennia.
                  >
                  > > Potential for writing or public speaking. (Dr. Eric Morse).
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > Neptune
                  > > Acrab (Beta Scorpii) – star is on head of scorpion,
                  > > General influence of the star: According to Ptolemy it is of the
                  > > nature of Mars and Saturn; and, to Alvidas, of Jupiter in square
                  to
                  > > Saturn and the Moon. It causes extreme malevolence,
                  mercilessness,
                  > > fiendishness, repulsiveness, malice, theft, crime, pestilence,
                  and
                  > > contagious diseases. (Robson).
                  > > This star and Dschubba are supposed to correspond to a Mars
                  > > character with a blend of Saturn characteristics. Dr Koch is of
                  the
                  > > opinion that both these stars are 'doubtful'. The effect of these
                  > > two stars has yet to be researched more fully. According to
                  > > tradition, these stars are credited with giving the ability to do
                  > > research, and especially research into things of a particularly
                  > > secret and hidden nature. For this to be however, further
                  influence
                  > > of the sign Scorpio and planets Mercury and Uranus have also to
                  be
                  > > present; preferably these stellar bodies would be positioned on
                  the
                  > > MC or Ascendant and be near another stellar body pointing to
                  mental
                  > > capabilities. In lower types, however, a tendency to falsehood
                  and
                  > > treason can be noted. Both stars are a poor augury for material
                  > > wealth. There will be difficulties, impediments, or loss,
                  dependent
                  > > upon the position these have in the cosmogram. In mundane maps,
                  > > there is an indication of mass catastrophes, should either Mars,
                  > > Saturn or Uranus be in these first degrees of Sagittarius,
                  > > especially in an angular position. (Ebertin).
                  > >
                  > > Situated on the head of the Scorpion, not where its armament is,
                  > > which is at the rear. It is a fighter of great skill and
                  > > characterizes Mars-Saturn perfectly. Anyone with this star strong
                  in
                  > > their horoscope is likely to show a patient and wary approach to
                  any
                  > > situation, but this will belie the skilled determination which
                  will
                  > > then be brought to bear. Scorpio is famous for the surgeons born
                  in
                  > > it and this star shows up just the qualities which they need to
                  > > have. The same applies to generals, policemen, private
                  investigators
                  > > and secret service agents, many of whom have this star well
                  placed
                  > > and aspected. In research of all other kinds too, it
                  distinguishes
                  > > the real adept. (Dr. Eric Morse).
                  > >
                  > > Associated sometimes with cruelty. (Larousse Encyclopedia of
                  > > Astrology).
                  >
                  > The Catholic Church sometimes has been, unfortunately; and you also
                  > have in the Protestant denominations people like Cotton and Increase
                  > Mather, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Fred Phelps and certain
                  Rwandan
                  > ministers who participated in the 1994 genocide.
                  >
                  > >
                  > > With Neptune: Connected with science, inventions, companies, or
                  > > journalism, breeds horses or cattle, good mind, late but
                  favorable
                  > > marriage but peculiar domestic conditions, accidents in middle
                  age,
                  > > death after lingering illness. (Robson).
                  > >
                  > > North Node
                  > >
                  > > Dubhe (Alpha Ursae Majoris)
                  > > General influence of the star: Credited with the destructiveness
                  of
                  > > Mars, working itself out particularly in mundane maps, in a nasty
                  > > way if conjunct Saturn. Conjunct Hitler's Saturn, Mao Tse Tung's
                  > > Moon. (Ebertin).
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  > From *Brady's Book of Fixed Stars*:
                  >
                  > "In a natal chart Dubhe indicates that your greatest strength lies
                  in
                  > the position you hold, rather than the actions you take. Quiet
                  > strength." (p. 205)
                  >
                  > Mark A. Holmes
                  >
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