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Re: [the boredoms] Re: interview with EYE and Yoshimi at the AV club

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  • scott davis
    sounds tits to me. infinity 8 would be different i think. plus i think they could tighten up the less than stellar aspects of 77boadrum as an event. there was
    Message 1 of 11 , May 8, 2008
      sounds tits to me. infinity 8 would be different i think. plus i think they could tighten up the less than stellar aspects of 77boadrum as an event. there was plenty of space for more people, though i respect the fact that it made it better for the people that did get in.
      either way, i'll be there regardless if it does happen. whether it's in NY or the UK. if you go to the COMMONS website there's an interview with Yoshimi and she mentions London in passing,? and laughs about the possibility of 99.


      fastyouth81 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote: well of course if you already saw you wouldn't want that experience to be recreated. but
      you are definitely in the minority as there were thousands of boredoms fans who couldn't
      make it or worse who came and were shut out of the park when it filled up.

      and actually, from what i've heard they wouldn't be re-doing 77Drum. it would be a new
      composition revolving around the theme of infinity (‡)

      -- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, "jeffwinterberg" <jeffwinterberg@...> wrote:
      >
      > I personally think it would cheapen the 7/7/7 thing to re-do it with
      > 8/8/8. I am speaking as someone who go to see it so I don't know how
      > I'd feel if I had missed last summer.
      >
      >
      > --- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, fastyouth81 <no_reply@> wrote:
      > >
      > > interesting stuff in there, although they don't seem like they are
      > preparing to do 88drum this
      > > year.
      > >
      > > http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/boredoms
      > >
      >






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    • joseph abel
      what is infinity 8,, i am a fan of yoshimi forever, but have never act met anyone who had heard of them,, please fill me in. scott davis
      Message 2 of 11 , May 11, 2008
        what is infinity 8,, i am a fan of yoshimi forever, but have never act met anyone who had heard of them,, please fill me in.

        scott davis <sjofarthotellet@...> wrote: sounds tits to me. infinity 8 would be different i think. plus i think they could tighten up the less than stellar aspects of 77boadrum as an event. there was plenty of space for more people, though i respect the fact that it made it better for the people that did get in.
        either way, i'll be there regardless if it does happen. whether it's in NY or the UK. if you go to the COMMONS website there's an interview with Yoshimi and she mentions London in passing,? and laughs about the possibility of 99.


        fastyouth81 wrote: well of course if you already saw you wouldn't want that experience to be recreated. but
        you are definitely in the minority as there were thousands of boredoms fans who couldn't
        make it or worse who came and were shut out of the park when it filled up.

        and actually, from what i've heard they wouldn't be re-doing 77Drum. it would be a new
        composition revolving around the theme of infinity (‡)

        -- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, "jeffwinterberg" wrote:
        >
        > I personally think it would cheapen the 7/7/7 thing to re-do it with
        > 8/8/8. I am speaking as someone who go to see it so I don't know how
        > I'd feel if I had missed last summer.
        >
        >
        > --- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, fastyouth81 wrote:
        > >
        > > interesting stuff in there, although they don't seem like they are
        > preparing to do 88drum this
        > > year.
        > >
        > > http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/boredoms
        > >
        >






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      • alterego100usa
        Not to mention the extremely limited US tours of the past several years. Both Boredoms and Cornelius used to play in the Detroit area rather regularly up to a
        Message 3 of 11 , May 12, 2008
          Not to mention the extremely limited US tours of the past several
          years. Both Boredoms and Cornelius used to play in the Detroit area
          rather regularly up to a point, but now they each limit their total
          USA appearances to just a few very large (and sometimes regionally-
          clustered) cities, so neither are really expanding their audiences by
          number anymore, just playing to the existing fans. This is truly a
          shame. As opposed to (for instance) Boredoms playing Lollapalooza and
          Nirvana tours in the early '90s, when huge numbers of young rock fans
          were exposed to the group on a consistent basis. I did come across an
          older tape of Boredoms the other week, from the State Fair Arena in
          Detroit, on the Nirvana tour. The venue had/has horrible acoustics,
          so it sounds like a muffled Toho soundtrack, but the live concert was
          quite good. --- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, fastyouth81
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > well of course if you already saw you wouldn't want that experience
          to be recreated. but
          > you are definitely in the minority as there were thousands of
          boredoms fans who couldn't
          > make it or worse who came and were shut out of the park when it
          filled up.
          >
          > and actually, from what i've heard they wouldn't be re-doing
          77Drum. it would be a new
          > composition revolving around the theme of infinity (‡)
          >
          >
          > -- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, "jeffwinterberg"
          <jeffwinterberg@> wrote:
          > >
          > > I personally think it would cheapen the 7/7/7 thing to re-do it
          with
          > > 8/8/8. I am speaking as someone who go to see it so I don't know
          how
          > > I'd feel if I had missed last summer.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, fastyouth81 <no_reply@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > interesting stuff in there, although they don't seem like they
          are
          > > preparing to do 88drum this
          > > > year.
          > > >
          > > > http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/boredoms
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Joe Janecek
          ... large (and sometimes regionally-clustered) cities, so neither are really expanding their audiences by number anymore, just playing to the existing fans.
          Message 4 of 11 , May 13, 2008
            >but now they each limit their total USA appearances to just a few very
            large (and sometimes regionally-clustered) cities, so neither are
            really expanding their audiences by number anymore, just playing to the
            existing fans. This is truly a shame.<

            Yes, the bigger problem is that ticket sales do not pay for the tours
            here in the US for the international acts. Even WB, back in the day,
            had trouble bringing a band over for a long run, as it was very
            expensive. Now those days are certainly past, as labels won't spend the
            cash unless they get a specific ROI- return on investment.

            When Boredoms were on the first part of Lollapalooza 94, the only way
            the deal could be done was if Boredoms gave up their portion of the
            Lolla t-shirt for which every band received money. That money helped
            alongside the funds the label also chipped in. It was a once in a
            lifetime opportunity for Boredoms to get that slot, so it was worth it.
            Having Kurt Cobain and similar musicians as fans certainly helped too.
            (BTW, part 2 of that Lolla tour featured Green Day in that opening
            slot, just as the band was getting huge - but I digress.)

            Now, Boredoms are on Vice or Thrill Jockey (SR 9), labels that tend to
            give little monetary tour support. Tour support just isn't in the
            vocabulary of the indie labels, as it's rarely recouped against album
            sales. Sadly, passion alone cannot move a band and tour bus from city
            to city.

            Also, their booking agent, Windish Agency, has to be very selective
            give the available tour window the band has available. They need
            guaranteed money that makes sense for the tour at hand. Do I wish Bore
            could do 30 dates? Sure. But the band probably has just a few weeks in
            reality, and yes, regionally-clustered shows make travel more
            affordable.

            When you mention "playing to the existing fans" - well, I disagree
            there. It's your duty as a music fan, as a BORE fan, to pack up the
            station wagon with your friends and make them experience Boredoms. Hey,
            Bore made it to America for you, can't you drag some friends across
            state lines to see them?

            The current music business environment has changed the game for
            marginal bands and labels, and the future remains uncertain. At least
            America is inexpensive for most bands compared to years past with the
            current exchange rates. Maybe more will take up the offer to come the
            the USA.

            cheers,
            joe
          • alterego100usa
            Yes, it has become prohibitive for bands to make the trip physically these days. I was seriously going to try for Philadelphia or DC, made several direct
            Message 5 of 11 , May 13, 2008
              Yes, it has become prohibitive for bands to make the trip physically
              these days. I was seriously going to try for Philadelphia or DC, made
              several direct inquiries, but venues in both cities put tickets on
              sale extremely close to the event dates, and with my work, I had to
              know some absolutes, like concert dates and ticket availability, to
              be able to free up the time. Websites for both of those venues
              finally only listed the concerts a matter of a few weeks or so before
              the shows. Lodging in those cases would not have been a problem at
              all, as I have close family in that region. A smaller-scale analogy
              can be applied with the talented local musicians I know, many of whom
              play in a cycle of venues in front of generally identical small
              groups of fans. I do go to see them each on occasion (or when
              grouped, as is most often, in package shows) but they're also
              personal friends of mine, so I see them anyway and get their CDs
              free, etc. They often see the same faces when they play because it's
              so difficult for these musicians to get to play additional venues
              with owners who aren't corrupt or disinterested. Because of this (in
              part), their live audience does not really expand unless they can
              expand their territory of coverage. A group like Boredoms has an
              exceptional live performance approach that I believe would really
              expand their audience to very rewarding proportions IF others could
              be exposed to that art. That's where that investment toward
              touring/A&R/etc. can pay off quickly. I would've seen them this year
              if those venues had simply advertised tickets a reasonable length of
              time before the concerts, but that has nothing to do with Boredoms,
              just poor advertising. Even if they'd played Toronto, I would've been
              there; maybe that could be considered next time around?--- In
              theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, Joe Janecek <joejanecek@...> wrote:
              >
              > >but now they each limit their total USA appearances to just a few
              very
              > large (and sometimes regionally-clustered) cities, so neither are
              > really expanding their audiences by number anymore, just playing to
              the
              > existing fans. This is truly a shame.<
              >
              > Yes, the bigger problem is that ticket sales do not pay for the
              tours
              > here in the US for the international acts. Even WB, back in the day,
              > had trouble bringing a band over for a long run, as it was very
              > expensive. Now those days are certainly past, as labels won't spend
              the
              > cash unless they get a specific ROI- return on investment.
              >
              > When Boredoms were on the first part of Lollapalooza 94, the only
              way
              > the deal could be done was if Boredoms gave up their portion of the
              > Lolla t-shirt for which every band received money. That money helped
              > alongside the funds the label also chipped in. It was a once in a
              > lifetime opportunity for Boredoms to get that slot, so it was worth
              it.
              > Having Kurt Cobain and similar musicians as fans certainly helped
              too.
              > (BTW, part 2 of that Lolla tour featured Green Day in that opening
              > slot, just as the band was getting huge - but I digress.)
              >
              > Now, Boredoms are on Vice or Thrill Jockey (SR 9), labels that tend
              to
              > give little monetary tour support. Tour support just isn't in the
              > vocabulary of the indie labels, as it's rarely recouped against
              album
              > sales. Sadly, passion alone cannot move a band and tour bus from
              city
              > to city.
              >
              > Also, their booking agent, Windish Agency, has to be very selective
              > give the available tour window the band has available. They need
              > guaranteed money that makes sense for the tour at hand. Do I wish
              Bore
              > could do 30 dates? Sure. But the band probably has just a few weeks
              in
              > reality, and yes, regionally-clustered shows make travel more
              > affordable.
              >
              > When you mention "playing to the existing fans" - well, I disagree
              > there. It's your duty as a music fan, as a BORE fan, to pack up the
              > station wagon with your friends and make them experience Boredoms.
              Hey,
              > Bore made it to America for you, can't you drag some friends across
              > state lines to see them?
              >
              > The current music business environment has changed the game for
              > marginal bands and labels, and the future remains uncertain. At
              least
              > America is inexpensive for most bands compared to years past with
              the
              > current exchange rates. Maybe more will take up the offer to come
              the
              > the USA.
              >
              > cheers,
              > joe
              >
            • almurphy56
              we would all wish to see a bigger tour, but i think, given the realities of touring today, boredoms have done a good job at bringing in new fans, i mean, 77
              Message 6 of 11 , May 19, 2008
                we would all wish to see a bigger tour, but i think, given the
                realities of touring today, boredoms have done a good job at bringing
                in new fans, i mean, 77 last summer is a case in point. that was
                certainly not existing boredoms fans. that was the shit to see! i came
                up from virginia for it, and was totally blown away at the response to
                the event. i guess we can thank this new world of internet hype and
                blogs and shit for that. i see it as kind of bittersweet that boredoms
                have been sucked into the blogosphere and all that, on the one hand
                its great for expanding an audience, but of course there's all the
                internet bullshit and short attention spans that i see all over
                message boards (like the av club one i just read)that i hate to see my
                favorite band getting sucked into. so i think it is the right way to
                go to spread the word to your friends, other people, in person. the
                internet these days is a lion's den, people's attention spans get
                shorter by the minute.
                also, boredoms have kind of had a zeppelin-esque approach to touring,
                which, with fewer and more centralized shows in the states, has the
                effect of making them more anticipated, memorable and talked-about
                events. but yes, i agree, bad promotion squashes that approach pretty
                quick.
                anyway, pointless post. but it's definitely the best to bring people
                to a show. i brought 2 of my friends to boadrum, and their heads were
                blown 20 miles into the sky just like that.




                --- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, alterego100usa <no_reply@...> wrote:
                >
                > Yes, it has become prohibitive for bands to make the trip physically
                > these days. I was seriously going to try for Philadelphia or DC, made
                > several direct inquiries, but venues in both cities put tickets on
                > sale extremely close to the event dates, and with my work, I had to
                > know some absolutes, like concert dates and ticket availability, to
                > be able to free up the time. Websites for both of those venues
                > finally only listed the concerts a matter of a few weeks or so before
                > the shows. Lodging in those cases would not have been a problem at
                > all, as I have close family in that region. A smaller-scale analogy
                > can be applied with the talented local musicians I know, many of whom
                > play in a cycle of venues in front of generally identical small
                > groups of fans. I do go to see them each on occasion (or when
                > grouped, as is most often, in package shows) but they're also
                > personal friends of mine, so I see them anyway and get their CDs
                > free, etc. They often see the same faces when they play because it's
                > so difficult for these musicians to get to play additional venues
                > with owners who aren't corrupt or disinterested. Because of this (in
                > part), their live audience does not really expand unless they can
                > expand their territory of coverage. A group like Boredoms has an
                > exceptional live performance approach that I believe would really
                > expand their audience to very rewarding proportions IF others could
                > be exposed to that art. That's where that investment toward
                > touring/A&R/etc. can pay off quickly. I would've seen them this year
                > if those venues had simply advertised tickets a reasonable length of
                > time before the concerts, but that has nothing to do with Boredoms,
                > just poor advertising. Even if they'd played Toronto, I would've been
                > there; maybe that could be considered next time around?--- In
                > theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, Joe Janecek <joejanecek@> wrote:
                > >
                > > >but now they each limit their total USA appearances to just a few
                > very
                > > large (and sometimes regionally-clustered) cities, so neither are
                > > really expanding their audiences by number anymore, just playing to
                > the
                > > existing fans. This is truly a shame.<
                > >
                > > Yes, the bigger problem is that ticket sales do not pay for the
                > tours
                > > here in the US for the international acts. Even WB, back in the day,
                > > had trouble bringing a band over for a long run, as it was very
                > > expensive. Now those days are certainly past, as labels won't spend
                > the
                > > cash unless they get a specific ROI- return on investment.
                > >
                > > When Boredoms were on the first part of Lollapalooza 94, the only
                > way
                > > the deal could be done was if Boredoms gave up their portion of the
                > > Lolla t-shirt for which every band received money. That money helped
                > > alongside the funds the label also chipped in. It was a once in a
                > > lifetime opportunity for Boredoms to get that slot, so it was worth
                > it.
                > > Having Kurt Cobain and similar musicians as fans certainly helped
                > too.
                > > (BTW, part 2 of that Lolla tour featured Green Day in that opening
                > > slot, just as the band was getting huge - but I digress.)
                > >
                > > Now, Boredoms are on Vice or Thrill Jockey (SR 9), labels that tend
                > to
                > > give little monetary tour support. Tour support just isn't in the
                > > vocabulary of the indie labels, as it's rarely recouped against
                > album
                > > sales. Sadly, passion alone cannot move a band and tour bus from
                > city
                > > to city.
                > >
                > > Also, their booking agent, Windish Agency, has to be very selective
                > > give the available tour window the band has available. They need
                > > guaranteed money that makes sense for the tour at hand. Do I wish
                > Bore
                > > could do 30 dates? Sure. But the band probably has just a few weeks
                > in
                > > reality, and yes, regionally-clustered shows make travel more
                > > affordable.
                > >
                > > When you mention "playing to the existing fans" - well, I disagree
                > > there. It's your duty as a music fan, as a BORE fan, to pack up the
                > > station wagon with your friends and make them experience Boredoms.
                > Hey,
                > > Bore made it to America for you, can't you drag some friends across
                > > state lines to see them?
                > >
                > > The current music business environment has changed the game for
                > > marginal bands and labels, and the future remains uncertain. At
                > least
                > > America is inexpensive for most bands compared to years past with
                > the
                > > current exchange rates. Maybe more will take up the offer to come
                > the
                > > the USA.
                > >
                > > cheers,
                > > joe
                > >
                >
              • alterego100usa
                Glad for your posting. I m not opposed to traveling for an event, but was just counting on the venues to advertise ticket availability more than 3 or 4 weeks
                Message 7 of 11 , May 29, 2008
                  Glad for your posting. I'm not opposed to traveling for an event, but
                  was just counting on the venues to advertise ticket availability more
                  than 3 or 4 weeks prior to the event itself. Typically, in the music-
                  rich Detroit area, even many small club gigs are advertised a couple
                  of months earlier, and some bigger concerts are promoted 6 months or
                  so earlier. And I'm still wondering why Boredoms couldn't ahve played
                  Toronto, which is not all that far from here, and obviously a major
                  city.-- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, "almurphy56" <almurphy56@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > we would all wish to see a bigger tour, but i think, given the
                  > realities of touring today, boredoms have done a good job at
                  bringing
                  > in new fans, i mean, 77 last summer is a case in point. that was
                  > certainly not existing boredoms fans. that was the shit to see! i
                  came
                  > up from virginia for it, and was totally blown away at the response
                  to
                  > the event. i guess we can thank this new world of internet hype and
                  > blogs and shit for that. i see it as kind of bittersweet that
                  boredoms
                  > have been sucked into the blogosphere and all that, on the one hand
                  > its great for expanding an audience, but of course there's all the
                  > internet bullshit and short attention spans that i see all over
                  > message boards (like the av club one i just read)that i hate to see
                  my
                  > favorite band getting sucked into. so i think it is the right way to
                  > go to spread the word to your friends, other people, in person. the
                  > internet these days is a lion's den, people's attention spans get
                  > shorter by the minute.
                  > also, boredoms have kind of had a zeppelin-esque approach to
                  touring,
                  > which, with fewer and more centralized shows in the states, has the
                  > effect of making them more anticipated, memorable and talked-about
                  > events. but yes, i agree, bad promotion squashes that approach
                  pretty
                  > quick.
                  > anyway, pointless post. but it's definitely the best to bring people
                  > to a show. i brought 2 of my friends to boadrum, and their heads
                  were
                  > blown 20 miles into the sky just like that.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, alterego100usa <no_reply@>
                  wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Yes, it has become prohibitive for bands to make the trip
                  physically
                  > > these days. I was seriously going to try for Philadelphia or DC,
                  made
                  > > several direct inquiries, but venues in both cities put tickets
                  on
                  > > sale extremely close to the event dates, and with my work, I had
                  to
                  > > know some absolutes, like concert dates and ticket availability,
                  to
                  > > be able to free up the time. Websites for both of those venues
                  > > finally only listed the concerts a matter of a few weeks or so
                  before
                  > > the shows. Lodging in those cases would not have been a problem
                  at
                  > > all, as I have close family in that region. A smaller-scale
                  analogy
                  > > can be applied with the talented local musicians I know, many of
                  whom
                  > > play in a cycle of venues in front of generally identical small
                  > > groups of fans. I do go to see them each on occasion (or when
                  > > grouped, as is most often, in package shows) but they're also
                  > > personal friends of mine, so I see them anyway and get their CDs
                  > > free, etc. They often see the same faces when they play because
                  it's
                  > > so difficult for these musicians to get to play additional venues
                  > > with owners who aren't corrupt or disinterested. Because of this
                  (in
                  > > part), their live audience does not really expand unless they can
                  > > expand their territory of coverage. A group like Boredoms has an
                  > > exceptional live performance approach that I believe would really
                  > > expand their audience to very rewarding proportions IF others
                  could
                  > > be exposed to that art. That's where that investment toward
                  > > touring/A&R/etc. can pay off quickly. I would've seen them this
                  year
                  > > if those venues had simply advertised tickets a reasonable length
                  of
                  > > time before the concerts, but that has nothing to do with
                  Boredoms,
                  > > just poor advertising. Even if they'd played Toronto, I would've
                  been
                  > > there; maybe that could be considered next time around?--- In
                  > > theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, Joe Janecek <joejanecek@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > >but now they each limit their total USA appearances to just a
                  few
                  > > very
                  > > > large (and sometimes regionally-clustered) cities, so neither
                  are
                  > > > really expanding their audiences by number anymore, just
                  playing to
                  > > the
                  > > > existing fans. This is truly a shame.<
                  > > >
                  > > > Yes, the bigger problem is that ticket sales do not pay for the
                  > > tours
                  > > > here in the US for the international acts. Even WB, back in the
                  day,
                  > > > had trouble bringing a band over for a long run, as it was very
                  > > > expensive. Now those days are certainly past, as labels won't
                  spend
                  > > the
                  > > > cash unless they get a specific ROI- return on investment.
                  > > >
                  > > > When Boredoms were on the first part of Lollapalooza 94, the
                  only
                  > > way
                  > > > the deal could be done was if Boredoms gave up their portion of
                  the
                  > > > Lolla t-shirt for which every band received money. That money
                  helped
                  > > > alongside the funds the label also chipped in. It was a once in
                  a
                  > > > lifetime opportunity for Boredoms to get that slot, so it was
                  worth
                  > > it.
                  > > > Having Kurt Cobain and similar musicians as fans certainly
                  helped
                  > > too.
                  > > > (BTW, part 2 of that Lolla tour featured Green Day in that
                  opening
                  > > > slot, just as the band was getting huge - but I digress.)
                  > > >
                  > > > Now, Boredoms are on Vice or Thrill Jockey (SR 9), labels that
                  tend
                  > > to
                  > > > give little monetary tour support. Tour support just isn't in
                  the
                  > > > vocabulary of the indie labels, as it's rarely recouped against
                  > > album
                  > > > sales. Sadly, passion alone cannot move a band and tour bus
                  from
                  > > city
                  > > > to city.
                  > > >
                  > > > Also, their booking agent, Windish Agency, has to be very
                  selective
                  > > > give the available tour window the band has available. They need
                  > > > guaranteed money that makes sense for the tour at hand. Do I
                  wish
                  > > Bore
                  > > > could do 30 dates? Sure. But the band probably has just a few
                  weeks
                  > > in
                  > > > reality, and yes, regionally-clustered shows make travel more
                  > > > affordable.
                  > > >
                  > > > When you mention "playing to the existing fans" - well, I
                  disagree
                  > > > there. It's your duty as a music fan, as a BORE fan, to pack up
                  the
                  > > > station wagon with your friends and make them experience
                  Boredoms.
                  > > Hey,
                  > > > Bore made it to America for you, can't you drag some friends
                  across
                  > > > state lines to see them?
                  > > >
                  > > > The current music business environment has changed the game for
                  > > > marginal bands and labels, and the future remains uncertain. At
                  > > least
                  > > > America is inexpensive for most bands compared to years past
                  with
                  > > the
                  > > > current exchange rates. Maybe more will take up the offer to
                  come
                  > > the
                  > > > the USA.
                  > > >
                  > > > cheers,
                  > > > joe
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • joejanecek
                  ... Ahh, good one. My guess is that it has to do with visa issues. The band has to pay someone in the US to process their work permits and visas, so they can
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 29, 2008
                    --- In theboredoms@yahoogroups.com, alterego100usa <no_reply@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > And I'm still wondering why Boredoms couldn't ahve played
                    > Toronto, which is not all that far from here, and obviously a major
                    > city.

                    Ahh, good one. My guess is that it has to do with visa issues. The band has to pay someone
                    in the US to process their work permits and visas, so they can earn money legally from the
                    music they play in the US. Not certain about the Canadian rules, but there's probably some
                    similarity.

                    Point is, the extra cost of any visa or work permits required probably doesn't make a Toronto
                    gig likely, unless they could do 3-4 or more Canadian shows, and being Canada, those would
                    be quite far apart, probably. Plus, customs clearance of the gear into Canada, then back into
                    the US, could add to the headaches.

                    cheers,
                    joe
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