The "RANS LIST"
- Hi Bill,
Sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you. I'm really in the
thick of it now - hence checking e-mail once a week at 11pm on Saturday
night. Should see some relief in another two weeks. They haven't managed
to drown me yet, and we've only "rolled" six so far from an API class of 38.
It was good to meet you, and see all your hard work at the air show. I
haven't done much to mine yet. Again, waiting for the next training pool
to start. I did have a chance last weekend to do some serious research on
free list-serve providers. The one that appears best is called
'onelist.com.' They provide free serving, with the caveat that each post
will be forwarded with a three line advertisement at the bottom. They will
also provide 5mb of server space, free of charge, for pictures and diagrams
you may wish to make public for the list members.
I added you as a member tonight. There are currently four (4) members.
You, me, my wife (test account), and 'rum@...' (who I do not know
yet, HINT TO RUM: who may read this and send a introductory post). Because
I worry about the time I will have available before graduation, I have not
advertised the list yet to anyone. There are many RANS builders I know who
are "lurking" on other lists like the Kitfox and Zenith because there is no
RANS list (YET!). We can expect membership (and traffic) to increase
greatly in a few weeks. Please let me know what you think.
Before we go public, we may want to change the name. I thought
'build-fly-rans' was descriptive and expedient, but something simpler such
as 'rans@onelist' or 'ranslist@onelist' may prove easier for builders to
find in the search engines. Again, what do you think?
I attached yesterday's Lancair list to show you what kind of daily exchange
usually results from one of these forums. The format you see is 'Digest,'
meaning I get all messages bundled together at midnight each day. Onelist
supports digesting (which is a very nice feature) the default delivery mode
however will bounce each message to you as it is posted. Also, you may
want to subscribe to your other e-mail account and cancel your rutgers
account membership to the list. I found the interface at the server home
page (onelist.com) to be easy to use. You can find the list at
Sorry to be all business today. Not much time for much else besides sleep,
eat, and other trash. I hope to get in there building with you soon. Good
luck! Send what you can to me and the list, and I will get back to you as
soon as I can.
>From: lancair.list@... (Lancair)
>Subject: lancair.list V1 #133
>Date: Sat, 24 Apr 1999 00:14:54 -0400
>lancair.list Sat, 24 Apr 1999 Volume 1 : Number
>In this issue:
> N360ZR Flies!!!
> hydraulic dump valve
> 320 SFB Center Section attachment
> Continental Engines & how the WEB works
> Re: 320 SFB Center Section attachment
> Hydraulic manifold
> Hydraulic manifold
> << Lancair Builders' Mail List >>
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 02:12:08 -0400
>From: Rick Argente <RickArgente@...> (by way of Marvin Kaye
>Subject: N360ZR Flies!!!
>After 6 1/2 years of building my Lancair 360 MkII and approximately 2,700
>man-hours of construction time, N360ZR finally took to the skies yesterday
>morning with Lancair's Chief Test Pilot, Don Goetz, at the controls. What
>a rush!!!!! Don flew N360ZR for about 20 minutes and came down to 10 feet
>of the active runway at 200 Knots for a victory fly-by. What a sight to
>see!!!! I was a very happy camper yesterday :-)
>We had to make some adjustments to the cowling and plugged up some holes
>to get the CHT's lower. On the next flight, CHT's were better but still
>needed some more changes and adjustments. Don also cut a some hole on the
>lower cowling to allow more hot air to exit. The seemed to do the trick,
>CHT's on the third flight were finally within acceptable levels.
>Boy, what a great plane to fly!!!! It's definitely different from anything
>I've flown before. I flew around the airport a couple of times, trying to
>get aquinted with my new baby!! Ground speed was 199KTS!!! He, he, he!!!
>Had the best good night sleep in months zzzzzzzzz
>More to follow...
>Checked out the airport manager and another individual who is a CFII on
>the Lancair. Everything went well and the airport manager picked-up flying
>the Lancair rather quickly. Made a couple of very nice landings.
>On the fourth flight, while checking out the CFII, experienced
>unacceptable levels of vibration. Had to cut the flight sort to inspect
>the engine, CFII did two landings but he needs more work. Checked plugs,
>wires, mag timimg, engine compression, mixture settings, etc. More
>adjustments and modifications. May need to send mags to shop for repairs.
>We shall test if any of our efforts solves and/or minimizes vibration
>[Way to go, Rick!!! A big congratulations goes out to you on this
>momentous occasion. Hopefully the vibration problem will turn out to be
>something minor and you can get on with your flight testing. Be sure to
>keep us advised of your progress.
>I'll "Blue Sky" your Builders' List entry immediately. Yahoo!!!
> <Marv> ]
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:09:18 -0600
>From: "Scott Dahlgren" <dahlgren@...>
>To: "___Lancair list" <lancair.list@...>
>Subject: hydraulic dump valve
>on the subject of the hydraulic ball (dump) valve:
>I found a replacement dump valve in caster Carr (#49355K91) that had 1/4"
>npt and was rated for 2000 psi for $18.64 , or a stainless with full ports
>for $26.25 (49355k21). they both look like the original.
>it seems like there have been several parts in the hydraulic system that
>have failed beyond just the dump valve. Perhaps we could make a list of
>these and the recommended upgrades. I would be glad to compile a drawing
>showing these if members with flying aircraft could submit them. this would
>help us "ground" (grinding?) flyers.
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 07:42:00 -0600
>From: "C.L.Keller" <clkeller@...>
>To: lancair.list@..., lancair.list@...
>Subject: 320 SFB Center Section attachment
>I'm facing the task of attaching the wing center section to the
>fuselage on my 320 SFB. I've had the center section in place, checked
>and corrected all levels and alignments, and am now facing the job of
>gluing it in place. The manual says to use Hysol on the glass-to-glass
>bond lines and forward load transfer pad (main spar), and micro on the
>foam pads. My problem is that the forward glass-to-glass bond line,
>where the fuselage bottom overlaps the underside of the main spar,
>causes a very tight fit for the forward spar. To get it in place the
>aft end of the center section has to be raised while the main spar is
>tucked under the fuselage bottom (remember, everything is up-side-down),
>then lowered while the spar cap slides forward on the load transfer
>pads. Works fine, but if the load transfer pad and the spar cap have
>had Hysol applied, this motion will wipe the surface clean. Once the
>center section is in place it is so tight there is no chance of raising
>it to create a gap above the load transfer pad to work Hysol into place.
> Can anyone who remembers having attached their center section offer
>suggestions or comments about how they managed it?
> Charles Keller
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 09:43:18 -0500
>From: "Bill Gradwohl" <Bill@...>
>Subject: Continental Engines & how the WEB works
>I hope everyone that subscribes to this list realizes that one or more =
>"WEB crawlers" periodically scan the LML site and index every word. That's =
>search engines manage to find everything in record time. They just read =
>pre-prepared index of words and provide you with the hits in a few =
>The WEB crawlers do all the hard work behind the scene by methodically =
>the majority of sites on the Internet for their contents. WEB crawlers =
>the various indices. The major search engines, Yahoo, Excite, AltaVista, =
>each have their own schedule and list of Internet sites they will "crawl" =
>every so often. That is why one search engine may not return the same =
>that another will. WEB crawling takes a long time to make one circuit of =
>entire Internet. Most search engines only scan a site when they are asked =
>so by the registered site owner. =20
>I mention this so that you all know that anyone wanting to know about
>Continental Engines by using a search engine will find references to the =
>eventually. It may take a few months for the WEB crawlers to have done =
>work against the LML site, but sooner or later, what is said here will be
>available to search engines.=20
>This forum can provide positive and negative advertising for anything it =
>to tackle. If enough people are PO'd at Continental, then put it on the =
>here. Anyone looking for information on Continentals products will tend to
>listen to us more so than anything Continental can devise in promotional
>advertising in any medium. =20
>If an individual threatens any major corporate entity with a law suit, =
>some limited effect - namely to enrich the attorney the case is assigned =
>order to bury it in paperwork for a few years. What do you do in the =
>not fly? That one voice is very easy to silence.=20
>I'm willing to bet that if one were to scan the LML WEB servers access =
>would find that all the major component suppliers routinely visit the site =
>see what's going on. Sooner or later someone at Continental with access to =
>than a morse code key and a Western Union Telegraph pad will realize that =
>is no way to shut us up once we've decide to fight back. The traditional =
>and avoid approach then starts to break down rapidly. =20
>If a class action is proposed, then the "class" of injured parties has to =
>found first. The more people that sound off about a flawed product, poor =
>the sale support, and an arrogant attitude to boot, the better. The =
>the world's new and expanding vehicle for anyone to speak his/her mind. =
>advantage of it. =20
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 17:35:52 -0700
>From: "Curtis Krouse" <ckrouse@...>
>To: "C.L.Keller" <clkeller@...>,
>Subject: Re: 320 SFB Center Section attachment
>I just finished doing that a week ago. I discovered a trick quite by
>accident. It came from a friend who made a comment that ended up clicking
>in my head as to how to proceed with preventing the main spar and load
>transfer pad from wiping the hysol off. Take a tongue depresser and break
>it in half.....lay it on the forward foam pad after you have smeared the
>micro on it...the ones that are next to the load transfer pads. When you
>lay the belly pan on, and tilt it up to fit the lower forward edge under the
>bottom of the spar where the foam center foam pads are, the tongue depresser
>will prevent the upper edge of the main spar from wiping the load transfer
>pad. After the belly pan is put in place, immediately slip the wooden
>tongue depressors out from the foam pads and then realign the belly pan to
>the markings that you make in the initial fit, then measure everything. The
>micro sets up fast, so you need to get the sticks out immediately. I
>spread hysol on the spar cap and on the load transfer pads where they mate
>and when I aligned everything and then weighted them down, I had quite a bit
>of hysol squeeze out which indicated that there was good coverage on the
>Hope this helps.
>Curtis Krouse N753K
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 22:13:43 -0400
>From: Marvin Kaye <marvkaye@...>
>Subject: Hydraulic manifold
>ACS sells some AL manifolds that I thought would be perfect for the
>hydraulic system on my airplane... I was very surprised to see that they
>limit the pressure on these units to 150psi, which obviously obviates their
>use in this system. Since I don't know what alloy they're made of, or
>their actual dimensions, I can see no reason to question their
>recommendation and court potential disaster. My question is this... can
>anyone out there see any reason why I can't manufacture my own manifolds
>out of a piece of 1x1x3" 6061T6 with five 1/8NPT ports (one in the end and
>4 cross-drilled and tapped)? The wall thickness at any port would far
>exceed the wall thickness of either the AL tubing which is being used,
>or even the AN fittings which tie everything together, and I would think
>that it should be more than capable of withstanding 1000psi, as that's
>not all that much pressure. What say you?
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:33:50 -0500
>From: Earl E Schroeder <earl_schroeder@...>
>Subject: Hydraulic manifold
>>My question is this... can
>>anyone out there see any reason why I can't manufacture my own manifolds
>>out of a piece of 1x1x3" 6061T6 with five 1/8NPT ports (one in the end
>>4 cross-drilled and tapped)?
>IMO, this would be OK. At GE we used similar blocks at even higher
>But, my question is: where are you using these? I'm unable to see a use
>unless one wishes to tie in pressure guages or other devices not included
>in the kits... A building buddy of mine would look at something like
>this that I would be adding and comment, "Hmmm, another five pound unit".
> I'd laugh but he made his point. <G> Earl
>[My hydraulic power pack is located on the back of the firewall above
>the passenger footwell. Consequently I've decided to swap the locations
>of the gear dump and fuel shutoff valves to the right and left sides of
>the nosegear tunnel respectively. I _am_ including pressure gauges on my
>panel, and that's the reason I'd like to use manifolds. I don't think the
>weight penalty is all that great (ACS says 1x1 weighs 1.17#/ft, so each
>of my little manifolds would only weigh about 4oz, and I really like the
>idea of eliminating the potential rat's nest that would result if I had
>to do the job strictly with AL tube and AN fittings.)
>Thanks for the advice. <Marv> ]
>End of lancair.list V1 #133
>LML homepage: http://www.olsusa.com/Users/Mkaye/maillist.html