Re: [The 6000 Club] Re: Bonneville Or Gran Prix Rear Struts On STE w AWD
- --- Ken Lane <kenlane5@...> wrote:
> My knowledge of the 6000 STE is restricted to my R&D days sorry.That's ok... thought I'd ask. :) I'm a big fan of these cars, myself. Some day
I hope to find out all I can about them.
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- The distance between the two mounting holes are different too. They are much closer on the Bonneville strut, and drilling out another hole isn't an option because the bracket isn't tall enough. I did manage to get one of these struts to work on my AWD, but I had to remove the Bonneville lower bracket and weld the bracket from my original strut onto the replacement. Was very time consuming, the bracket for the Bonneville comes right off with little effort; can't say the same for the AWD's, it's welded in several places.
Ken Lane <kenlane5@...> wrote: As a retiree of GM and orginal design packager of the STE 6000 AWd and owner
of a 1988 6000 AWD, we also built a citation(J car) with the 6000 package.
Pontiac designed the rear suspension for the AWD. First preprototype was
built in Terrytown NY.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Floyd" <gmawdguy@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [The 6000 Club] Re: Bonneville Or Gran Prix Rear Struts On STE
> Hi Will,
> Thanks for you idea. I do not know much about Bonneville's struts but
> I am curious about what you said. I will mull that over for a while.
> Actually, I was just being the Devil's Advocate about the rear struts.
> I am sure that I would never try something like that unless somebody else
> worked out all the particulars and tried it first. And then I would still
> use the stock system on my 1990 6000 w AWD.
> But.... I am always looking for that interesting tidbit of what would
> be possible for my AWD Citation project. (That I have yet to make the
> first change from on my stock Citation. One of these years.)
> It sure has been nice to see some postings on the 6000 site. Thanks
> guys for your input.
> William Lucke <william.lucke@...> wrote:
> Tim's right. While the spring may be the same, it is mounted and
> differently in the AWD than in the W-bodies. With no pressure in the air
> struts, the AWD *almost* sits on the bump stops with an empty trunk and
> back seat. It's all the spring can do to keep the car from riding the
> bump stops.
> The bump stops themselves are blocks of rubber inside the air struts. I
> disassembled my old struts and found that the bump stops had been
> pounded to the point of disintegration by the time my car spent with
> non-functioning air ride.
> But the suggestion of Bonneville struts DOES give me an idea.
> What about cutting the toe link bracket OFF the AWD struts and welding
> it to a piece of steel that would then bolt on top of the the
> corresponding location on a strut without the toe link?
> Looking at one of my old struts, I quickly see a way to use a piece of
> 2.5" inside width channel to hold the toe link bracket on a strut that
> did not have it.
>> 1b. Re: Bonneville Or Gran Prix Rear Struts On STE w AWD
>> Posted by: "Tim Anderson" timanderson22@... timanderson22
>> Date: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:45 am (PDT)
>> Whether or not the spring is the same part number between the 6000 AWD
>> the Grand Prix is a moot point. The geometry, weights, etc. are
>> different between the two cars. On the 6000 AWD the spring and struts
>> together to share the load. The spring is not "too weak". When you look
>> any system, you have to look at the sum of the parts. The suspension
>> exactly the way it is supposed to!
>> Yes, other GM cars use different flavors of the auto-leveling setup, and
>> other models have a toe-link assembly for adjusting the rear toe on the
>> independent suspension. The only difference is that the other models have
>> the toe-link bracket cast as part of the knuckle assembly, while the 6000
>> AWD was unique in the bracket being made out of rolled steel instead of
>> cast, and being part of the strut instead of part of the knuckle.
>> I, personally, love the way the car handles with the stock suspension. I
>> really don't see where any kind of jury-rigging to eliminate the
>> or mono-spring could improve handling, it would only make it worse!
>> Tim Anderson
>> 1989 6000STE AWD, ~225k miles
>> 1990 Delta 88, 165k miles
>> 1992 Grand Prix, 245k miles
>> 1995 Bonneville, 225k miles
>> (I think I see a pattern here!)
>> "It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education." Albert
>> From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On
>> Behalf Of ste89awd
>> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:31 PM
>> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
>> Subject: Re: [The 6000 Club] Bonneville Or Gran Prix Rear Struts On STE w
>> "No it would not work. They do not have the toe link for the
>> alignment, not to mention the Air Ride holds up more than you think.
>> The monoleafs are way to weak on these cars in my opinion. But it
>> would sag teribly."
>> Actually, the monoleaf spring used on the AWDs is the same exact one
>> used on the Grand Prix'. The struts should hold up fine. And the
>> Bonneville SSE/i models should feature the self leveling air struts.
>> The only real issue is going to be the missing bracket for the toe
>> link, as Brian mentioned. That one issue makes it virtually
>> impossible to get the part from any other car. Very close, but no cigar.
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