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Fwd: 1 Samuel 13:1

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  • jovial1000
    ((((((( That may work in English, but as far as I know the way to express age in OT Hebrew is always the son/daughter of ___ years. ))))))))))) I m well
    Message 1 of 2 , May 19, 2014
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      (((((((

      That may work in English, but as far as I know the way to express age in OT Hebrew is always 'the son/daughter of ___ years."

      )))))))))))


      I'm well aware of that, but perhaps I need to give the longer form explanation to make what I was trying to say clear.

      Let's suppose the text starts out as "son of forty two years" and a scribe shortens it to "son of 42 years", writing "42" as a number.  In Hebrew, we'd have...
      בן בן" שנה
      The next scribe omits the ", leaving
      בן בן שנה
      The next scribe might have considered the "בן" redudant, and shortened it to
      בן  שנה
      particularly since numbers are usually written out in long form in Hebrew in Scripture, rather than short form as letters.  In other words, this could be an example of why numbers SHOULD be written out in long form on a normal basis; to avoid that kind of confusion.

      It is also possible that the number was simply dropped, however, the omission of a number is rather glaring here and not an easy one to miss if one is thinking about what one is writing.  Since the number 42 fits, I still wonder about the possibility.  That is the essence of what I was trying to say.


    • Mr. Buck
      I m well aware of that, but perhaps I need to give the longer form explanation to make what I was trying to say clear. Let s suppose the text starts out as
      Message 2 of 2 , May 20, 2014
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        I'm well aware of that, but perhaps I need to give the longer form explanation to make what I was trying to say clear.

        Let's suppose the text starts out as "son of forty two years" and a scribe shortens it to "son of 42 years", writing "42" as a number.  In Hebrew,we'd have...
        בן בן" שנה
        The next scribe omits the ", leaving
        בן בן שנה
        The next scribe might have considered the "בן" redudant, and shortened it to
        בן  שנה
        particularlysince numbers are usually written out in long form in Hebrew in Scripture, rather than short form as letters.  In other words, this could be an example of why numbers SHOULD be written out in long form on a normal basis; to avoid that kind of confusion.

        It is also possible that the number was simply dropped, however, the omission of a number is rather glaring here and not an easy one to miss if one is thinking about what one is writing.  Since the number 42 fits, I still wonder about the possibility.  That is the essence of what I was trying to say.
        Joe V.
         ________________________________
        I guess there are two textual difficulties in this verse:
        1. The number for Saul's age is missing; or, he was one year old when he became king.
        2. The tens digit for Saul's reign is missing; or, he only reigned two years over Israel.

        Translators who accept 13:1 as canonical have to come up with different approaches to handle each difficulty. Even hypothesizing that v. 1 was originally written in the margin by a scribe who left blanks for the numbers and intended to fill them in later when he found that information elsewhere in the text, still doesn't account for the number 'two' in the latter half of the verse.

        Daniel Buck 

        On Monday, May 19, 2014 12:32 PM, "jovial@... [textualcriticism]" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


         
        (((((((

        That may work in English, but as far as I know the way to express age in OT Hebrew is always 'the son/daughter of ___ years."

        )))))))))))


        I'm well aware of that, but perhaps I need to give the longer form explanation to make what I was trying to say clear.

        Let's suppose the text starts out as "son of forty two years" and a scribe shortens it to "son of 42 years", writing "42" as a number.  In Hebrew, we'd have...
        בן בן" שנה
        The next scribe omits the ", leaving
        בן בן שנה
        The next scribe might have considered the "בן" redudant, and shortened it to
        בן  שנה
        particularly since numbers are usually written out in long form in Hebrew in Scripture, rather than short form as letters.  In other words, this could be an example of why numbers SHOULD be written out in long form on a normal basis; to avoid that kind of confusion.

        It is also possible that the number was simply dropped, however, the omission of a number is rather glaring here and not an easy one to miss if one is thinking about what one is writing.  Since the number 42 fits, I still wonder about the possibility.  That is the essence of what I was trying to say.




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