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Papias Works Listed Catalogue of Stams 1341

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  • isaac_chauncy
    Friends, Does anyone have or recognize the source for this statement? ... #M. Jourjon, DBSup 6 [1960], cols. 1104–9; #U. H. J. Körtner, Papias von
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 2, 2014
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      Friends,
      Does anyone have or recognize the source for this statement?
      >"Although "Interpretation of the Sayings of the Lord in five books" was listed in the library catalogue of Stams, a Cistercian monastery in the Tyrol as late as 1341, it has now disappeared."
      >Article from Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible by Professor Paul Woolley, WTS
      >Citations given:
      #M. Jourjon, DBSup 6 [1960], cols. 1104–9;
      #U. H. J. Körtner, Papias von Hierapolis: Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des frühen #Christentums [1983];
      #J. Kürzinger, Papias von Hierapolis und die Evangelien des Neuen Testaments [1983];
      #R. Bauckham in JTS 44 [1993]: 24–69;
      #W. R. Schoedel in ABD, 5:140–42.
      ==== URL: ====
      http://www.biblicalwritings.com/the-zondervan-encyclopedia-of-the-bible/?alfa=P&word=Papias
    • Stephen Goranson
      Perhaps see Stephen Carlson s blog: http://hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2003/11/harnack-on-papias-in-the-late-middle-ages.html Stephen Goranson
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 3, 2014
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        Perhaps see Stephen Carlson's blog:
        http://hypotyposeis.org/weblog/2003/11/harnack-on-papias-in-the-late-middle-ages.html

        Stephen Goranson
        http://people.duke.edu/~goranson/

        From: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com [textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com] on behalf of mikeferrando@... [mikeferrando@...]
        Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2014 6:53 PM
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [textualcriticism] Papias Works Listed Catalogue of Stams 1341

         

        Friends,
        Does anyone have or recognize the source for this statement?

        >"Although "Interpretation of the Sayings of the Lord in five books" was listed in the library catalogue of Stams, a Cistercian monastery in the Tyrol as late as 1341, it has now disappeared."
        >Article from Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible by Professor Paul Woolley, WTS
        >Citations given:
        #M. Jourjon, DBSup 6 [1960], cols. 1104–9;
        #U. H. J. Körtner, Papias von Hierapolis: Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des frühen #Christentums [1983];
        #J. Kürzinger, Papias von Hierapolis und die Evangelien des Neuen Testaments [1983];
        #R. Bauckham in JTS 44 [1993]: 24–69;
        #W. R. Schoedel in ABD, 5:140–42.
        ==== URL: ====
        http://www.biblicalwritings.com/the-zondervan-encyclopedia-of-the-bible/?alfa=P&word=Papias

      • Roberto Labanti
        Probably, a reference to Latin lexicographer Papias [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_%28lexicographer%29]. See, for example, E. Norelli
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 3, 2014
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          Probably, a reference to Latin lexicographer Papias <fl. 1040s-1060s> [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papias_%28lexicographer%29]. See, for example, E. Norelli in his PAPIA  DI  HIERAPOLIS,  Esposizione  degli  oracoli  del  Signore.  I  frammenti, Torino: Edizioni Paoline, 2005, p. 361

          http://books.google.it/books?id=m9gP5qCxK0QC&pg=PA361

          Best,
          Roberto


          On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 12:53 AM, <mikeferrando@...> wrote:


          Friends,
          Does anyone have or recognize the source for this statement?
          >"Although "Interpretation of the Sayings of the Lord in five books" was listed in the library catalogue of Stams, a Cistercian monastery in the Tyrol as late as 1341, it has now disappeared."
          >Article from Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible by Professor Paul Woolley, WTS
          >Citations given:
          #M. Jourjon, DBSup 6 [1960], cols. 1104–9;
          #U. H. J. Körtner, Papias von Hierapolis: Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des frühen #Christentums [1983];
          #J. Kürzinger, Papias von Hierapolis und die Evangelien des Neuen Testaments [1983];
          #R. Bauckham in JTS 44 [1993]: 24–69;
          #W. R. Schoedel in ABD, 5:140–42.
          ==== URL: ====
          http://www.biblicalwritings.com/the-zondervan-encyclopedia-of-the-bible/?alfa=P&word=Papias


        • Stephen Carlson
          Please see: Adolf Harnack, *Geschichte der Altchristlichen Litteratur bis Eusebius *(Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1893) 1:69. 2) Bickell hat in d. Ztschr. f. kathol.
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 3, 2014
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            Please see: Adolf Harnack, Geschichte der Altchristlichen Litteratur bis Eusebius (Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1893) 1:69.

            2) Bickell hat in d. Ztschr. f. kathol. Theol. III S. 800ff. den Katalog der Bibliotek des Klosters Stams veröffentlicht, welcher im J. 1341 abgefasst worden ist. Hier findet sich die Notiz: „Sermones de s. Benedicto et de S. Bernhardo. – Sermones diversi. – Papias cum sermonibus diversis.“ Ich habe eine Woche hindurch in Stams nach dieser Handschriften gesucht, sie aber nicht gefunden.

            Personally, I think this could be (and more likely is) a reference to the popular medieval dictionary by a northern Italian lexicographer also called Papias.

            Stephen


            On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 12:53 AM, <mikeferrando@...> wrote:
             

            Friends,
            Does anyone have or recognize the source for this statement?
            >"Although "Interpretation of the Sayings of the Lord in five books" was listed in the library catalogue of Stams, a Cistercian monastery in the Tyrol as late as 1341, it has now disappeared."
            >Article from Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible by Professor Paul Woolley, WTS
            >Citations given:
            #M. Jourjon, DBSup 6 [1960], cols. 1104–9;
            #U. H. J. Körtner, Papias von Hierapolis: Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des frühen #Christentums [1983];
            #J. Kürzinger, Papias von Hierapolis und die Evangelien des Neuen Testaments [1983];
            #R. Bauckham in JTS 44 [1993]: 24–69;
            #W. R. Schoedel in ABD, 5:140–42.
            ==== URL: ====
            http://www.biblicalwritings.com/the-zondervan-encyclopedia-of-the-bible/?alfa=P&word=Papias




            --
            --
            Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
            Post-Doctoral Fellow, Theology, Uppsala
          • Mike Ferrando
            Stephen (et al), I did find your page which has excellent info! I found the reference in Kortner (digital copy online!). I did however, find the original
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 3, 2014
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              Stephen (et al),
              I did find your page which has excellent info!
              I found the reference in Kortner (digital copy online!).
              I did however, find the original journal with Bickell's article.
              Bicknell's entry is just one page, but the German script is difficult.
              Would it be possible to translate this?
              Thanks,
              -mike

              === Bickell ===
              Title    Zeitschrift für katholische Theologie, Volume 3
              Contributor    Universität Innsbruck. Theologische Fakultät
              Publisher    Herder, 1879
              Original from    Oxford University
              Digitized    Oct 5, 2006
              p. 803
              http://books.google.com/books?id=1fcDAAAAQAAJ&lpg=PA803&ots=7a0ZNnPhTH&dq=Zeitschrift%20f%C3%BCr%20katholische%20theologie%20Bickell%20stams%20papias&pg=PA803#v=onepage&q&f=false

              === Kortner ===
              Also, the first entry Kortner, did produce a digital searchable copy with the reference to Bickell on p. 36, footnote on p. 241.
              Papias von Hierapolis : ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des frühen Christentums
              [ENGLISH: Papias of Hierapolis: a contribution to the history of early Christianity]
              Author / Editor: Körtner, Ulrich H. J.
              Publishing Place: Göttingen | Year of Publication: 1983 | Publishing house: Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht
              Call number: B.isag. 15 vg-133
              search "stams"
              http://digi20.digitale-sammlungen.de/en/fs1/object/context/bsb00047516_00001.html?prox=true&phone=true&ngram=true&hl=scan&person_str={K%C3%B6rtner%2C+Ulrich+H.+J.}&fulltext=stams&mode=simple&context=stams



              From: Stephen Carlson
              To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, February 3, 2014 9:19 AM
              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Papias Works Listed Catalogue of Stams 1341



              Please see: Adolf Harnack, Geschichte der Altchristlichen Litteratur bis Eusebius (Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1893) 1:69.

              2) Bickell hat in d. Ztschr. f. kathol. Theol. III S. 800ff. den Katalog der Bibliotek des Klosters Stams veröffentlicht, welcher im J. 1341 abgefasst worden ist. Hier findet sich die Notiz: „Sermones de s. Benedicto et de S. Bernhardo. – Sermones diversi. – Papias cum sermonibus diversis.“ Ich habe eine Woche hindurch in Stams nach dieser Handschriften gesucht, sie aber nicht gefunden.

              Personally, I think this could be (and more likely is) a reference to the popular medieval dictionary by a northern Italian lexicographer also called Papias.

              Stephen


              --
              Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
              Post-Doctoral Fellow, Theology, Uppsala




            • Mike Ferrando
              Stephen, I was looking over your page. The caption for the table you present indicates late middle ages . Does Harnack give more information on these? I am
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 3, 2014
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                Stephen,
                I was looking over your page.
                The caption for the table you present indicates "late middle ages".
                Does Harnack give more information on these?
                I am wading through his work online (not a German reader).
                The information you reference is located here (online at archive.org) in Harnack's work:
                https://archive.org/stream/02603345.1303.emory.edu/02603345_1303#page/n130/mode/1up
                =========
                I was wondering about dates or citations for the # 3.
                3) Tritheim, de scriptor. eccl. 9 writes:

                Can you tell me anything more about this citation?
                Sincerely,
                -mike




                From: Stephen Carlson <stemmatic@...>
                To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, February 3, 2014 9:19 AM
                Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Papias Works Listed Catalogue of Stams 1341



                Please see: Adolf Harnack, Geschichte der Altchristlichen Litteratur bis Eusebius (Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1893) 1:69.

                2) Bickell hat in d. Ztschr. f. kathol. Theol. III S. 800ff. den Katalog der Bibliotek des Klosters Stams veröffentlicht, welcher im J. 1341 abgefasst worden ist. Hier findet sich die Notiz: „Sermones de s. Benedicto et de S. Bernhardo. – Sermones diversi. – Papias cum sermonibus diversis.“ Ich habe eine Woche hindurch in Stams nach dieser Handschriften gesucht, sie aber nicht gefunden.

                Personally, I think this could be (and more likely is) a reference to the popular medieval dictionary by a northern Italian lexicographer also called Papias.

                Stephen


                On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 12:53 AM, <mikeferrando@...> wrote:
                 
                Friends,
                Does anyone have or recognize the source for this statement?
                >"Although "Interpretation of the Sayings of the Lord in five books" was listed in the library catalogue of Stams, a Cistercian monastery in the Tyrol as late as 1341, it has now disappeared."
                >Article from Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible by Professor Paul Woolley, WTS
                >Citations given:
                #M. Jourjon, DBSup 6 [1960], cols. 1104–9;
                #U. H. J. Körtner, Papias von Hierapolis: Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des frühen #Christentums [1983];
                #J. Kürzinger, Papias von Hierapolis und die Evangelien des Neuen Testaments [1983];
                #R. Bauckham in JTS 44 [1993]: 24–69;
                #W. R. Schoedel in ABD, 5:140–42.
                ==== URL: ====
                http://www.biblicalwritings.com/the-zondervan-encyclopedia-of-the-bible/?alfa=P&word=Papias



                --
                --
                Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
                Post-Doctoral Fellow, Theology, Uppsala




              • Mike Ferrando
                Stephen, I found a work that gives some critique of these papias sightings. But it seems very negative in reviewing them and basically dismisses all of them.
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 3, 2014
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                  Stephen,
                  I found a work that gives some critique of these papias sightings.
                  But it seems very negative in reviewing them and basically dismisses all of them.
                  My source below.
                  Sincerely,
                  -mike

                  Title    The Christian Remembrancer, Volume 26
                  Contributors    William Scott, Francis Garden, James Bowling Mozley
                  Publisher    F.C. & J. Rivington, 1853
                  Original from    the New York Public Library
                  Digitized    Nov 21, 2007
                  p. 218 ff

                  http://books.google.com/books?id=SsERAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA219&ots=H76lCk9KHR&dq=Trithemius%20%20papias&pg=PA218#v=onepage&q&f=false





                  From: Stephen Carlson <stemmatic@...>
                  To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, February 3, 2014 9:19 AM
                  Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Papias Works Listed Catalogue of Stams 1341



                  Please see: Adolf Harnack, Geschichte der Altchristlichen Litteratur bis Eusebius (Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1893) 1:69.

                  2) Bickell hat in d. Ztschr. f. kathol. Theol. III S. 800ff. den Katalog der Bibliotek des Klosters Stams veröffentlicht, welcher im J. 1341 abgefasst worden ist. Hier findet sich die Notiz: „Sermones de s. Benedicto et de S. Bernhardo. – Sermones diversi. – Papias cum sermonibus diversis.“ Ich habe eine Woche hindurch in Stams nach dieser Handschriften gesucht, sie aber nicht gefunden.

                  Personally, I think this could be (and more likely is) a reference to the popular medieval dictionary by a northern Italian lexicographer also called Papias.

                  Stephen


                  On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 12:53 AM, <mikeferrando@...> wrote:
                   
                  Friends,
                  Does anyone have or recognize the source for this statement?
                  >"Although "Interpretation of the Sayings of the Lord in five books" was listed in the library catalogue of Stams, a Cistercian monastery in the Tyrol as late as 1341, it has now disappeared."
                  >Article from Zondervan Encyclopedia of the Bible by Professor Paul Woolley, WTS
                  >Citations given:
                  #M. Jourjon, DBSup 6 [1960], cols. 1104–9;
                  #U. H. J. Körtner, Papias von Hierapolis: Ein Beitrag zur Geschichte des frühen #Christentums [1983];
                  #J. Kürzinger, Papias von Hierapolis und die Evangelien des Neuen Testaments [1983];
                  #R. Bauckham in JTS 44 [1993]: 24–69;
                  #W. R. Schoedel in ABD, 5:140–42.
                  ==== URL: ====
                  http://www.biblicalwritings.com/the-zondervan-encyclopedia-of-the-bible/?alfa=P&word=Papias



                  --
                  --
                  Stephen C. Carlson, Ph.D. (Duke)
                  Post-Doctoral Fellow, Theology, Uppsala




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