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Against Heresies, IV.29.1

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  • David Inglis
    At the beginning of Adv. Haer. IV.29.1, Irenaeus appears to suggest that Marcion s gospel did not contain Lk 8:9-10. In the only translation I have access to,
    Message 1 of 2 , Dec 2, 2013
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      At the beginning of Adv. Haer. IV.29.1, Irenaeus appears to suggest that Marcion’s gospel did not contain Lk 8:9-10. In the only translation I have access to, it says:

       

      But, say they, God hardened the heart of Pharaoh and of his servants [Ex 9:35]. Those, then, who allege such difficulties, do not read in the Gospel that passage where the Lord replied to the disciples, when they asked Him, Why do You speak unto them in parables? [Lk 8:9?] Because it is given unto you to know the mystery of the kingdom of heaven; but to them I speak in parables, that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear, understanding they may not understand; [Lk 8:10?] in order that the prophecy of Isaiah regarding them may be fulfilled, saying, Make the heart of this people gross and make their ears dull, and blind their eyes. But blessed are your eyes, which see the things that you see; and your ears, which hear what you hear [Isa 6:10]

       

      Does this accurately convey the meaning of the original, and is Irenaeus really indicating that Lk 8:9-10 were not in Marcion’s gospel? Alternatively, is he quoting Mt 13:11, 13 (but not 12!) instead, and suggesting that the Marcionites just ignored these verses? Any comments gratefully received.

       

      David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA

    • Mr. Buck
      I defer to Barry s expertise in Latin, but I would suspect a translation along the lines of,  To those, then, who allege such difficulties, Do you not read
      Message 2 of 2 , Dec 2, 2013
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        I defer to Barry's expertise in Latin, but I would suspect a translation along the lines of, 
        "To those, then, who allege such difficulties, Do you not read in the Gospel that passage . . .?"
         
        Daniel Buck 
        ________________________________


        On Monday, December 2, 2013 1:18 PM, David Inglis <davidinglis2@...> wrote:
         
        At the beginning of Adv. Haer. IV.29.1, Irenaeus appears to suggest that Marcion’s gospel did not contain Lk 8:9-10. In the only translation I have access to, it says:
         
        But, say they, God hardened the heart of Pharaoh and of his servants [Ex 9:35]. Those, then, who allege such difficulties, do not read in the Gospel that passage where the Lord replied to the disciples, when they asked Him, Why do You speak unto them in parables? [Lk 8:9?] Because it is given unto you to know the mystery of the kingdom of heaven; but to them I speak in parables, that seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not hear, understanding they may not understand; [Lk 8:10?] in order that the prophecy of Isaiah regarding them may be fulfilled, saying, Make the heart of this people gross and make their ears dull, and blind their eyes. But blessed are your eyes, which see the things that you see; and your ears, which hear what you hear [Isa 6:10]
         
        Does this accurately convey the meaning of the original, and is Irenaeus really indicating that Lk 8:9-10 were not in Marcion’s gospel? Alternatively, is he quoting Mt 13:11, 13 (but not 12!) instead, and suggesting that the Marcionites just ignored these verses? Any comments gratefully received.
         
        David Inglis, Lafayette, CA, 94549, USA


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