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RE: [textualcriticism] Re: New website

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  • Dave Washburn
    Thanks for the correction. I only remembered seeing them at line ends, but it s also been a very long time since I buried my nose in a manuscript. Dave
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 9, 2013
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      Thanks for the correction. I only remembered seeing them at line ends, but it's also been a very long time since I buried my nose in a manuscript.

      Dave Washburn
      http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
      Check out my review show, No Life With Irving



      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      From: tjf@...
      Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 04:42:30 +0000
      Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website

       
      Hi Daniel (and Dave),

      Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:

      Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
      Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
      Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
      Druckhaus.

      Best,

      Tim Finney

      --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn@...> wrote:
      >
      > I believe that, at least in many uncials, it's an end-of-line abbreviation of KAI.
      >
      > Dave Washburn
      > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
      > Check out my review show, No Life With Irving
      >
      >
      > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      > From: bucksburg@...
      > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 19:18:57 +0000
      > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website
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      > http://cntr.elementfx.com
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      > What is the oft-used ligature that either looks like a hooked K or IS run together?
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      > Daniel Buck
      >


    • John McChesney-Young
      ... It s available online here: http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard John -- John McChesney-Young ** Berkeley, California, U.S.A.
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 10, 2013
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        On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@...> wrote:

        > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
        >
        > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
        > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
        > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
        > Druckhaus.

        It's available online here:

        http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard

        John




        --
        John McChesney-Young ** Berkeley, California, U.S.A.
        JMcCYoung~at~gmail.com ** http://gplus.to/jmccyoung
      • yennifmit
        Thanks John! Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules. Best, Tim Finney
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 10, 2013
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          Thanks John!

          Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules.

          Best,

          Tim Finney

          --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young <jmccyoung@...> wrote:
          >
          > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
          > >
          > > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
          > > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
          > > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
          > > Druckhaus.
          >
          > It's available online here:
          >
          > http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard
          >
          > John
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          > John McChesney-Young ** Berkeley, California, U.S.A.
          > JMcCYoung~at~gmail.com ** http://gplus.to/jmccyoung
          >
        • Mr. Buck
          I didn t find the IS symbol yet, but page 342 shows the angled ice-cream-cone symbol as HLIOS CRUSOS TRIADIKON CROOS.   Daniel Buck 
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 11, 2013
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            I didn't find the IS symbol yet, but page 342 shows the angled ice-cream-cone symbol as HLIOS CRUSOS TRIADIKON CROOS.

             
            Daniel Buck 

            From: yennifmit <tjf@...>
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 PM
            Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website

             
            Thanks John!

            Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules.

            Best,

            Tim Finney

            --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young <jmccyoung@...> wrote:
            >
            > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@...> wrote:
            >
            > > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
            > >
            > > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
            > > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
            > > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
            > > Druckhaus.
            >
            > It's available online here:
            >
            > http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard
            >
            > John
          • yennifmit
            Hi Daniel, The entry for KAI compendium is at the top of p. 338. Gardthausen doesn t show the initial vertical stroke of the KAPPA for some reason. Here is his
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 11, 2013
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              Hi Daniel,

              The entry for KAI compendium is at the top of p. 338. Gardthausen doesn't show the initial vertical stroke of the KAPPA for some reason. Here is his explanation courtesy of Google translate:

              "KAI is perhaps the most common word, its forms are very diverse. One must start from the tachygraphic form < with shortcut slash /; then this is occasionally extended over the line and ends with the accent; also, the angle may be rounded."

              The inverted cone symbol on p. 342 represents the sun.

              Best,

              Tim Finney

              --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. Buck" <bucksburg@...> wrote:
              >
              > I didn't find the IS symbol yet, but page 342 shows the angled ice-cream-cone symbol as HLIOS CRUSOS TRIADIKON CROOS.
              >
              >
              > �
              > Daniel Buck�
              >
              >
              > ________________________________
              > From: yennifmit <tjf@...>
              > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 PM
              > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website
              >
              >
              >
              > �
              > Thanks John!
              >
              > Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules.
              >
              > Best,
              >
              > Tim Finney
              >
              > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young <jmccyoung@> wrote:
              > >
              > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
              > > >
              > > > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
              > > > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
              > > > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
              > > > Druckhaus.
              > >
              > > It's available online here:
              > >
              > > http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard
              > >
              > > John
              >
            • Atef Wagih
              Hi all, In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed. While in the LXX is says after three days...etc The explanation I read
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
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                Hi all,

                In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                While in the LXX is says after three days...etc

                The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.

                I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.

                My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                Thank you very much.

                In Christ,
                Atef
              • Steve Puluka
                ... I checked in Abegg s The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
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                  On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Atef Wagih wrote:

                  > Hi all,
                  >
                  > In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                  > While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                  >
                  > The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.
                  >
                  > I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.
                  >
                  > My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                  I checked in Abegg's "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and format all the scripture from the Dead Sea Scrolls in an English translation of those texts. This includes references on their original location in the scrolls collection.

                  This is a convenient and affordable volume.

                  Steve Puluka
                  Cantor Holy Ghost Mckees Rocks - Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
                  MA Theology Duquesne University
                  http://puluka.com/home
                • Dave Washburn
                  My book, A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
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                    My book, "A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and non-biblical scrolls. Unfortunately, I just moved 3 days ago and still don't know where all my copies are...

                    (And I believe the paperback costs less than the DSS Bible...)

                    Dave Washburn
                    http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
                    Check out my review show, No Life With Irving



                    To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                    From: spuluka@...
                    Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:57:30 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Jonah 3:4 between the MT & LXX

                     
                    On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Atef Wagih wrote:

                    > Hi all,
                    >
                    > In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                    > While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                    >
                    > The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.
                    >
                    > I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.
                    >
                    > My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                    I checked in Abegg's "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and format all the scripture from the Dead Sea Scrolls in an English translation of those texts. This includes references on their original location in the scrolls collection.

                    This is a convenient and affordable volume.

                    Steve Puluka
                    Cantor Holy Ghost Mckees Rocks - Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
                    MA Theology Duquesne University
                    http://puluka.com/home


                  • Dave Washburn
                    My book, A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
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                      My book, "A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and non-biblical scrolls. Unfortunately, I just moved 3 days ago and still don't know where all my copies are...

                      (And I believe the paperback costs less than the DSS Bible...)

                      Dave Washburn
                      http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
                      Check out my review show, No Life With Irving



                      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                      From: spuluka@...
                      Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:57:30 -0400
                      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Jonah 3:4 between the MT & LXX

                       
                      On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Atef Wagih wrote:

                      > Hi all,
                      >
                      > In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                      > While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                      >
                      > The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.
                      >
                      > I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.
                      >
                      > My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                      I checked in Abegg's "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and format all the scripture from the Dead Sea Scrolls in an English translation of those texts. This includes references on their original location in the scrolls collection.

                      This is a convenient and affordable volume.

                      Steve Puluka
                      Cantor Holy Ghost Mckees Rocks - Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
                      MA Theology Duquesne University
                      http://puluka.com/home


                    • Drew Longacre
                      Atef, according to Ulrich, 4QXII(a, g, and f) have Jonah, but not this verse. The Nahal Hever Greek minor prophets scroll apparently reads forty, however.  
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 15, 2013
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                        Atef, according to Ulrich, 4QXII(a, g, and f) have Jonah, but not this verse. The Nahal Hever Greek minor prophets scroll apparently reads "forty," however.
                         
                        -Drew Longacre

                        From: Atef Wagih <atef_wagih@...>
                        To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 12:49 AM
                        Subject: [textualcriticism] Jonah 3:4 between the MT & LXX
                         
                        Hi all,

                        In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                        While in the LXX is says after three days...etc

                        The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.

                        I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.

                        My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                        Thank you very much.

                        In Christ,
                        Atef
                      • Mr. Buck
                        I m reading 1 Kingdoms in the Breton LXX and realizing how corrupted the text became by the 4th century--for example, an interpolation of Jeremiah 9:23 into
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 15, 2013
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                          I'm reading 1 Kingdoms in the Breton LXX and realizing how corrupted the text became by the 4th century--for example, an interpolation of Jeremiah 9:23 into 2:10.

                          This looks to me like a remote harmonization to Matthew 12:40.
                           
                          Daniel Buck

                          From: Drew Longacre <drewlongacre@...>

                           
                          Atef, according to Ulrich, 4QXII(a, g, and f) have Jonah, but not this verse. The Nahal Hever Greek minor prophets scroll apparently reads "forty," however.
                           
                          -Drew Longacre

                          From: Atef Wagih <atef_wagih@...>
                           
                          Hi all,

                          In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                          While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                          . . .
                          In Christ,
                          Atef

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