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Re: New website

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  • yennifmit
    Hi Alan, Thanks very much for making this site. It looks terrific. Best, Tim Finney
    Message 1 of 18 , Jul 4, 2013
      Hi Alan,

      Thanks very much for making this site. It looks terrific.

      Best,

      Tim Finney

      --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Alan Bunning <gninnub@...> wrote:
      >
      > Here is a new website I have created that contains
      > electronic transcriptions of all extant manuscripts and quotations of the Greek
      > New Testament up to a terminus ad quem of 400 AD. There is also a
      > verse-by-verse collation of these manuscripts for the entire New Testament.
      > This beta version might be a little slow at times because it is on a free
      > hosting site, so please don’t start linking to the site yet or the bandwidth
      > limits would soon be exceeded. Right now I am just looking for feedback and
      > will probably move the site to a more permanent URL later. The website is at
      >  
      > http://cntr.elementfx.com
      >  
      > The individual transcriptions and the collation are located
      > under the manuscripts tab. Please let me know of any comments you have.
      >  
      > Alan Bunning
      >
    • Vox Verax
      The arrangement of the materials looks very good. The oversimplified caricatures of the approaches used by earlier NT text-compilers in the initial essay are
      Message 2 of 18 , Jul 6, 2013
        The arrangement of the materials looks very good.

        The oversimplified caricatures of the approaches used by earlier NT text-compilers in the initial essay are very bad, though. If I wasn't already doing a dozen other things I'd go into detail about that.

        In the KoineGreek font, the Xi is not quite right. (I really like the use of a plain uncial font, though; I made something similar for the Greek Uncial Archetype of Mark.)

        Yours in Christ,

        James Snapp, Jr.
      • bucksburg
        http://cntr.elementfx.com What is the oft-used ligature that either looks like a hooked K or IS run together? Daniel Buck
        Message 3 of 18 , Jul 9, 2013
          http://cntr.elementfx.com

          What is the oft-used ligature that either looks like a hooked K or IS run together?

          Daniel Buck
        • Dave Washburn
          I believe that, at least in many uncials, it s an end-of-line abbreviation of KAI. Dave Washburn http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur Check out my review show, No Life
          Message 4 of 18 , Jul 9, 2013
            I believe that, at least in many uncials, it's an end-of-line abbreviation of KAI.

            Dave Washburn
            http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
            Check out my review show, No Life With Irving



            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            From: bucksburg@...
            Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 19:18:57 +0000
            Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website

             
            http://cntr.elementfx.com

            What is the oft-used ligature that either looks like a hooked K or IS run together?

            Daniel Buck


          • yennifmit
            Hi Daniel (and Dave), Yes, it s a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is: Gardthausen,
            Message 5 of 18 , Jul 9, 2013
              Hi Daniel (and Dave),

              Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:

              Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
              Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
              Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
              Druckhaus.

              Best,

              Tim Finney

              --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn@...> wrote:
              >
              > I believe that, at least in many uncials, it's an end-of-line abbreviation of KAI.
              >
              > Dave Washburn
              > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
              > Check out my review show, No Life With Irving
              >
              >
              > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              > From: bucksburg@...
              > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 19:18:57 +0000
              > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website
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              > http://cntr.elementfx.com
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              > What is the oft-used ligature that either looks like a hooked K or IS run together?
              >
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              > Daniel Buck
              >
            • Dave Washburn
              Thanks for the correction. I only remembered seeing them at line ends, but it s also been a very long time since I buried my nose in a manuscript. Dave
              Message 6 of 18 , Jul 9, 2013
                Thanks for the correction. I only remembered seeing them at line ends, but it's also been a very long time since I buried my nose in a manuscript.

                Dave Washburn
                http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
                Check out my review show, No Life With Irving



                To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                From: tjf@...
                Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2013 04:42:30 +0000
                Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website

                 
                Hi Daniel (and Dave),

                Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:

                Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
                Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
                Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
                Druckhaus.

                Best,

                Tim Finney

                --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Dave Washburn <davidlwashburn@...> wrote:
                >
                > I believe that, at least in many uncials, it's an end-of-line abbreviation of KAI.
                >
                > Dave Washburn
                > http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
                > Check out my review show, No Life With Irving
                >
                >
                > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                > From: bucksburg@...
                > Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 19:18:57 +0000
                > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website
                >
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                > http://cntr.elementfx.com
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                > What is the oft-used ligature that either looks like a hooked K or IS run together?
                >
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                >
                > Daniel Buck
                >


              • John McChesney-Young
                ... It s available online here: http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard John -- John McChesney-Young ** Berkeley, California, U.S.A.
                Message 7 of 18 , Jul 10, 2013
                  On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@...> wrote:

                  > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
                  >
                  > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
                  > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
                  > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
                  > Druckhaus.

                  It's available online here:

                  http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard

                  John




                  --
                  John McChesney-Young ** Berkeley, California, U.S.A.
                  JMcCYoung~at~gmail.com ** http://gplus.to/jmccyoung
                • yennifmit
                  Thanks John! Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules. Best, Tim Finney
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jul 10, 2013
                    Thanks John!

                    Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules.

                    Best,

                    Tim Finney

                    --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young <jmccyoung@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
                    > >
                    > > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
                    > > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
                    > > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
                    > > Druckhaus.
                    >
                    > It's available online here:
                    >
                    > http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard
                    >
                    > John
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > John McChesney-Young ** Berkeley, California, U.S.A.
                    > JMcCYoung~at~gmail.com ** http://gplus.to/jmccyoung
                    >
                  • Mr. Buck
                    I didn t find the IS symbol yet, but page 342 shows the angled ice-cream-cone symbol as HLIOS CRUSOS TRIADIKON CROOS.   Daniel Buck 
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jul 11, 2013
                      I didn't find the IS symbol yet, but page 342 shows the angled ice-cream-cone symbol as HLIOS CRUSOS TRIADIKON CROOS.

                       
                      Daniel Buck 

                      From: yennifmit <tjf@...>
                      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 PM
                      Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website

                       
                      Thanks John!

                      Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules.

                      Best,

                      Tim Finney

                      --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young <jmccyoung@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
                      > >
                      > > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
                      > > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
                      > > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
                      > > Druckhaus.
                      >
                      > It's available online here:
                      >
                      > http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard
                      >
                      > John
                    • yennifmit
                      Hi Daniel, The entry for KAI compendium is at the top of p. 338. Gardthausen doesn t show the initial vertical stroke of the KAPPA for some reason. Here is his
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jul 11, 2013
                        Hi Daniel,

                        The entry for KAI compendium is at the top of p. 338. Gardthausen doesn't show the initial vertical stroke of the KAPPA for some reason. Here is his explanation courtesy of Google translate:

                        "KAI is perhaps the most common word, its forms are very diverse. One must start from the tachygraphic form < with shortcut slash /; then this is occasionally extended over the line and ends with the accent; also, the angle may be rounded."

                        The inverted cone symbol on p. 342 represents the sun.

                        Best,

                        Tim Finney

                        --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "Mr. Buck" <bucksburg@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I didn't find the IS symbol yet, but page 342 shows the angled ice-cream-cone symbol as HLIOS CRUSOS TRIADIKON CROOS.
                        >
                        >
                        > �
                        > Daniel Buck�
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: yennifmit <tjf@...>
                        > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:08 PM
                        > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: New website
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > �
                        > Thanks John!
                        >
                        > Pages 335-52 are especially useful when deciphering minuscules.
                        >
                        > Best,
                        >
                        > Tim Finney
                        >
                        > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young <jmccyoung@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > On Tue, Jul 9, 2013 at 9:42 PM, yennifmit <tjf@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Yes, it's a KAI compendium. They can occur anywhere, not just at the end of a line. A good book which covers such things is:
                        > > >
                        > > > Gardthausen, V. 1913. Griechische Palaeographie. Vol. 2. Die Schrift,
                        > > > Unterschriften und Chronologie im Alterum und im Byzantinischen
                        > > > Mittelalter. 2nd ed. Leipzig: Veit. Repr. 1978. Berlin: Nationales
                        > > > Druckhaus.
                        > >
                        > > It's available online here:
                        > >
                        > > http://archive.org/details/griechischepaleo02gard
                        > >
                        > > John
                        >
                      • Atef Wagih
                        Hi all, In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed. While in the LXX is says after three days...etc The explanation I read
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
                          Hi all,

                          In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                          While in the LXX is says after three days...etc

                          The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.

                          I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.

                          My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                          Thank you very much.

                          In Christ,
                          Atef
                        • Steve Puluka
                          ... I checked in Abegg s The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
                            On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Atef Wagih wrote:

                            > Hi all,
                            >
                            > In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                            > While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                            >
                            > The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.
                            >
                            > I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.
                            >
                            > My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                            I checked in Abegg's "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and format all the scripture from the Dead Sea Scrolls in an English translation of those texts. This includes references on their original location in the scrolls collection.

                            This is a convenient and affordable volume.

                            Steve Puluka
                            Cantor Holy Ghost Mckees Rocks - Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
                            MA Theology Duquesne University
                            http://puluka.com/home
                          • Dave Washburn
                            My book, A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
                              My book, "A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and non-biblical scrolls. Unfortunately, I just moved 3 days ago and still don't know where all my copies are...

                              (And I believe the paperback costs less than the DSS Bible...)

                              Dave Washburn
                              http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
                              Check out my review show, No Life With Irving



                              To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                              From: spuluka@...
                              Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:57:30 -0400
                              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Jonah 3:4 between the MT & LXX

                               
                              On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Atef Wagih wrote:

                              > Hi all,
                              >
                              > In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                              > While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                              >
                              > The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.
                              >
                              > I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.
                              >
                              > My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                              I checked in Abegg's "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and format all the scripture from the Dead Sea Scrolls in an English translation of those texts. This includes references on their original location in the scrolls collection.

                              This is a convenient and affordable volume.

                              Steve Puluka
                              Cantor Holy Ghost Mckees Rocks - Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
                              MA Theology Duquesne University
                              http://puluka.com/home


                            • Dave Washburn
                              My book, A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jul 14, 2013
                                My book, "A Catalog of Biblical Passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls (published by SBL) is a listing of all passages preserved both in the biblical and non-biblical scrolls. Unfortunately, I just moved 3 days ago and still don't know where all my copies are...

                                (And I believe the paperback costs less than the DSS Bible...)

                                Dave Washburn
                                http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
                                Check out my review show, No Life With Irving



                                To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                From: spuluka@...
                                Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2013 19:57:30 -0400
                                Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Jonah 3:4 between the MT & LXX

                                 
                                On Jul 14, 2013, at 7:49 PM, Atef Wagih wrote:

                                > Hi all,
                                >
                                > In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                                > While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                                >
                                > The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.
                                >
                                > I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.
                                >
                                > My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                                I checked in Abegg's "The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible" and Jonah is not listed as extant in the collection. This book collects into modern Bible order and format all the scripture from the Dead Sea Scrolls in an English translation of those texts. This includes references on their original location in the scrolls collection.

                                This is a convenient and affordable volume.

                                Steve Puluka
                                Cantor Holy Ghost Mckees Rocks - Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
                                MA Theology Duquesne University
                                http://puluka.com/home


                              • Drew Longacre
                                Atef, according to Ulrich, 4QXII(a, g, and f) have Jonah, but not this verse. The Nahal Hever Greek minor prophets scroll apparently reads forty, however.  
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jul 15, 2013
                                  Atef, according to Ulrich, 4QXII(a, g, and f) have Jonah, but not this verse. The Nahal Hever Greek minor prophets scroll apparently reads "forty," however.
                                   
                                  -Drew Longacre

                                  From: Atef Wagih <atef_wagih@...>
                                  To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 12:49 AM
                                  Subject: [textualcriticism] Jonah 3:4 between the MT & LXX
                                   
                                  Hi all,

                                  In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                                  While in the LXX is says after three days...etc

                                  The explanation I read about this is that this is a coying error in the LXX.

                                  I checked it in Coptic and found it "three", i believe that this is because it is based on the LXX.

                                  My Question is: do we have copies of the book of Jonah in the Dead Sea scrolls? and if so what does it read?

                                  Thank you very much.

                                  In Christ,
                                  Atef
                                • Mr. Buck
                                  I m reading 1 Kingdoms in the Breton LXX and realizing how corrupted the text became by the 4th century--for example, an interpolation of Jeremiah 9:23 into
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jul 15, 2013
                                    I'm reading 1 Kingdoms in the Breton LXX and realizing how corrupted the text became by the 4th century--for example, an interpolation of Jeremiah 9:23 into 2:10.

                                    This looks to me like a remote harmonization to Matthew 12:40.
                                     
                                    Daniel Buck

                                    From: Drew Longacre <drewlongacre@...>

                                     
                                    Atef, according to Ulrich, 4QXII(a, g, and f) have Jonah, but not this verse. The Nahal Hever Greek minor prophets scroll apparently reads "forty," however.
                                     
                                    -Drew Longacre

                                    From: Atef Wagih <atef_wagih@...>
                                     
                                    Hi all,

                                    In Jonah 3:4 in the MT it says that after forty days the city will be destroyed.
                                    While in the LXX is says after three days...etc
                                    . . .
                                    In Christ,
                                    Atef

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