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Re: [textualcriticism] Malachi 2: 15

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  • robert robinson
    please dont send that again, its just a bunch of numbers ... please dont send that again, its just a bunch of numbers From: Arie Dirkzwager
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 7, 2012
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      please dont send that again, its just a bunch of numbers


      From: Arie Dirkzwager <dirkzwager@...>
      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 11:35 PM
      Subject: [textualcriticism] Malachi 2: 15

       
      If we compare different translations of this text, we see that the Hebrew text of the first part of the verse is not clear. The MT has
      &#1493;&#1500;&#1488;&#1470;&#1488;&#1495;&#1491; &#1506;&#1513;&#1492; &#1493;&#1513;&#1488;&#1512; &#1512;&#1493;&#1495; &#1500;&#1493; &#1493;&#1502;&#1492; &#1492;&#1488;&#1495;&#1491; &#1502;&#1489;&#1511;&#1513; &#1494;&#1512;&#1506; &#1488;&#1500;&#1492;&#1497;&#1501;
      The LXX however has
      &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#959;&#8016;&#954; &#7940;&#955;&#955;&#959;&#962; &#7952;&#960;&#959;&#8055;&#951;&#963;&#949;&#957;, &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#8017;&#960;&#8057;&#955;&#949;&#953;&#956;&#956;&#945; &#960;&#957;&#949;&#8059;&#956;&#945;&#964;&#959;&#962; &#945;&#8016;&#964;&#959;&#8166;. &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#949;&#7988;&#960;&#945;&#964;&#949; &#932;&#8055; &#7940;&#955;&#955;&#959; &#7936;&#955;&#955;&#8127; &#7970; &#963;&#960;&#8051;&#961;&#956;&#945; &#950;&#951;&#964;&#949;&#8150; &#8001; &#952;&#949;&#8057;&#962;; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#966;&#965;&#955;&#8049;&#958;&#945;&#963;&#952;&#949; &#7952;&#957; &#964;&#8183; &#960;&#957;&#949;&#8059;&#956;&#945;&#964;&#953; &#8017;&#956;&#8182;&#957;, &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#947;&#965;&#957;&#945;&#8150;&#954;&#945; &#957;&#949;&#8057;&#964;&#951;&#964;&#8057;&#962; &#963;&#959;&#965; &#956;&#8052; &#7952;&#947;&#954;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#955;&#8055;&#960;&#8131;&#962;&#903;
      For me the interesting point is &#7940;&#955;&#955;&#959;&#962;. In Hebrew that would be &#1488;&#1495;&#1512; . In Hebrew, in both the 'normal' alphabet and the older one, there is not much difference between &#1491; and &#1512; . They can be easily confused.
      Starting from &#1488;&#1495;&#1512; I propose to read
      &#1493;&#1500;&#1488;&#1470;&#1488;&#1495;&#1512; &#1506;&#1513;&#1492;&#1493; &#1488;&#1513;&#1512; &#1512;&#1493;&#1495; &#1500;&#1493; &#1493;&#1502;&#1492; &#1492;&#1488;&#1495;&#1512; &#1502;&#1489;&#1511;&#1513; &#1494;&#1512;&#1506; &#1488;&#1500;&#1492;&#1497;&#1501; &#1493;&#1504;&#1513;&#1502;&#1512;&#1514;&#1501; &#1489;&#1512;&#1493;&#1495;&#1499;&#1501; &#1493;&#1489;&#1488;&#1513;&#1514; &#1504;&#1506;&#1493;&#1512;&#1497;&#1498; &#1488;&#1500;-&#1497;&#1489;&#1490;&#1491;
      And He-who-is-not-the-other made him, who has spirit. And what is the other seeking?
      Gods children.
      So be careful in your spirit and don't be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

      'The other' would be the devil. 'Seeking' would have a negative meaning.
      In my opinion the maqqef does not only indicate unity of tone, but therein also unity of meaning. Am I right?
      In my solution there exists also a clear correspondance between spirit in the first part of the verse and the same word in the second part.
      My only change is putting the &#1493; after &#1506;&#1513;&#1492; and switching &#1513; and &#1488;. Can we live with that?

      Arie

      Dr. A. Dirkzwager
      Hoeselt, Belgium
      www.dirkzwagerarie.be



    • Robert Relyea
      ... There s just a formatting problem. The this is html marker got stripped. The numbers are utf8 hebrew and greek letter... Here s the original... ... If we
      Message 2 of 5 , Nov 7, 2012
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        On 11/07/2012 11:15 AM, robert robinson wrote:
        please dont send that again, its just a bunch of numbers


        From: Arie Dirkzwager <dirkzwager@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 11:35 PM
        Subject: [textualcriticism] Malachi 2: 15

         
        There's just a formatting problem. The 'this is html' marker got stripped. The numbers are utf8 hebrew and greek letter... Here's the original...

        ---------------------------------------------------------------

        If we compare different translations of this text, we see that the Hebrew text of the first part of the verse is not clear. The MT has ולא־אחד עשה ושאר רוח לו ומה האחד מבקש זרע אלהים The LXX however has
        καὶ οὐκ ἄλλος ἐποίησεν, καὶ ὑπόλειμμα πνεύματος αὐτοῦ. καὶ εἴπατε Τί ἄλλο ἀλλ᾿ ἢ σπέρμα ζητεῖ ὁ θεός; καὶ φυλάξασθε ἐν τῷ πνεύματι ὑμῶν, καὶ γυναῖκα νεότητός σου μὴ ἐγκαταλίπῃς·

         For me the interesting point is ἄλλος. In Hebrew that would be אחר . In Hebrew, in both the 'normal' alphabet and the older one, there is not much difference between ד and ר . They can be easily confused. Starting from אחר I propose to read ולא־אחר עשהו אשר רוח לו ומה האחר מבקש זרע אלהים ונשמרתם ברוחכם ובאשת נעוריך אל-יבגד And He-who-is-not-the-other made him, who has spirit. And what is the other seeking? Gods children. So be careful in your spirit and don't be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.

         'The other' would be the devil. 'Seeking' would have a negative meaning.
         In my opinion the maqqef does not only indicate unity of tone, but therein also unity of meaning. Am I right? In my solution there exists also a clear correspondance between spirit in the first part of the verse and the same word in the second part. My only change is putting the ו after עשה and switching ש and א. Can we live with that?

        Arie

        Dr. A. Dirkzwager Hoeselt,
        Belgium
        www.dirkzwagerarie.be
      • yennifmit
        Hi Robert, Those numbers are perfectly good character references to Hebrew letters. The problem is that some part of the processing pipeline that the emails go
        Message 3 of 5 , Nov 7, 2012
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          Hi Robert,

          Those numbers are perfectly good character references to Hebrew letters. The problem is that some part of the processing pipeline that the emails go through has decided to interpret them as plain text. If you make an HTML file, paste in all those entity references (e.g. ו), then open the file with your web browser then you will see the Hebrew.

          Best,

          Tim Finney

          --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, robert robinson <obadiahorthodox@...> wrote:
          >
          > please dont send that again, its just a bunch of numbers
          >
          >
          >
          > >________________________________
          > > From: Arie Dirkzwager <dirkzwager@...>
          > >To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
          > >Sent: Monday, November 5, 2012 11:35 PM
          > >Subject: [textualcriticism] Malachi 2: 15
          > >
          > >
          > > 
          > >If we compare different translations of this text, we see that the Hebrew text of the first part of the verse is not clear. The MT has
          > >ולא־אחד עשה ושאר רוח לו ומה האחד מבקש זרע אלהים
          > >The LXX however has
          > >καὶ οὐκ ἄλλος ἐποίησεν, καὶ ὑπόλειμμα πνεύματος αὐτοῦ. καὶ εἴπατε Τί ἄλλο ἀλλ᾿ ἢ σπέρμα ζητεῖ ὁ θεός; καὶ φυλάξασθε ἐν τῷ πνεύματι ὑμῶν, καὶ γυναῖκα νεότητός σου μὴ ἐγκαταλίπῃς·
          > >For me the interesting point is ἄλλος. In Hebrew that would be אחר . In Hebrew, in both the 'normal' alphabet and the older one, there is not much difference between ד and ר . They can be easily confused.
          > >Starting from אחר I propose to read
          > >ולא־אחר עשהו אשר רוח לו ומה האחר מבקש זרע אלהים ונשמרתם ברוחכם ובאשת נעוריך אל-יבגד
          > >And He-who-is-not-the-other made him, who has spirit. And what is the other seeking?
          > >Gods children.
          > >So be careful in your spirit and don't be unfaithful to the wife of your youth.
          > >
          > >'The other' would be the devil. 'Seeking' would have a negative meaning.
          > >In my opinion the maqqef does not only indicate unity of tone, but therein also unity of meaning. Am I right?
          > >In my solution there exists also a clear correspondance between spirit in the first part of the verse and the same word in the second part.
          > >My only change is putting the ו after עשה and switching ש and א. Can we live with that?
          > >
          > >Arie
          > >
          > >Dr. A. Dirkzwager
          > >Hoeselt, Belgium
          > >www.dirkzwagerarie.be
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • Arie Dirkzwager
          I put a short article in English about my suggested text in Malachi 2: 15 on my website. You can find more explication there than in my original note for this
          Message 4 of 5 , Nov 23, 2012
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            I put a short article in English about my suggested text in Malachi 2: 15 on my website. You can find more explication there than in my original note for this forum. There will be no problem to read Hebrew and Greek characters there.
            I still like to receive comments or fanmail.

            http://www.dirkzwagerarie.be/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=189%3Amalachi-215&catid=3%3Aoudetestament&Itemid=10&lang=nl

            Arie

            A. Dirkzwager
            Hoeselt, Belgium
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