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Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

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  • Jeff Cate
    Hi Richard, Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794).
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 5, 2011
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      Hi Richard,


      Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.

       

      Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
      Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.

      Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.


      Hope this is helpful,

      --Jeff Cate,
      Riverside, CA





      On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
       

      Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
      STOLEN: I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
       
      Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
       
      So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
       
      Richard
       

      From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

       
      The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  

      Gracia y paz, 

      Bill Warren, Ph.D.
      Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
      Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
      New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary



      On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:

       
      http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612

      Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS?

      Year: 1292

      Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16
      Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, Serres
      Creator: Theodosios of Kinsos

      The exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.





    • Richard Andersen
      Thanks All.   The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.   I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 6, 2011
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        Thanks All.
         
        The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.
         
        I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for confirming what I was thinking.
         
        Richard

        From: Jeff Cate <jjcate@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:47:13 AM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
         
        Hi Richard,

        Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.
         
        Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
        Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.
        Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.

        Hope this is helpful,
        --Jeff Cate,
        Riverside, CA



        On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
         
        Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
        STOLEN: I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
         
        Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
         
        So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
         
        Richard
         
        From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
         
        The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  
        Gracia y paz,  Bill Warren, Ph.D. Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
        On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:
         
        http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612 Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS? Year: 1292 Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16 Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, Serres Creator: Theodosios of Kinsos The exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.
      • Daniel B. Wallace
        CSNTM digitally photographed GA 1685 (aka BXM 01612) in May 2011. However, the Byzantine and Christian Museum does not permit us to post the images on our
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 9, 2011
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          CSNTM digitally photographed GA 1685 (aka BXM 01612) in May 2011. However, the Byzantine and Christian Museum does not permit us to post the images on our website. But scholars may visit our facilities to examine the photographs.

          Daniel B. Wallace, PhD
          Executive Director
          Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts
          www.csntm.org




          ----- Start Original Message -----
          Sent: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 06:17:53 -0800 (PST)
          From: Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...>
          To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

          > Thanks All.
          >  
          > The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.
          >  
          > I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for confirming what I was thinking.
          >  
          > Richard
          >
          > From: Jeff Cate <jjcate@...>
          > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:47:13 AM
          > Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
          >
          >  
          > Hi Richard,
          >
          >
          > Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.
          >  
          > Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
          > Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.
          > Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.
          >
          > Hope this is helpful,
          > --Jeff Cate,
          > Riverside, CA
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
          >  
          > >Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
          > >STOLEN:I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
          > > 
          > >Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
          > >
          > >So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
          > >
          > >Richard
          > >
          > >From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
          > >To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
          > >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
          > >Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
          > >
          > > 
          > >The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  
          > >Gracia y paz, Bill Warren, Ph.D.Director of the Center for New Testament Textual StudiesLandrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and GreekNew Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
          > >On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:
          > > 
          > >>http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS? Year: 1292Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, SerresCreator: Theodosios of KinsosThe exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.

          ----- End Original Message -----
        • Richard Andersen
          Just out of curiosity, were the other stolen MS noted by Hoskier found also? Surrepti Vel Evanuerunt:  HSK-175 [Absunt] HSK-195[GA-1785] HSK-197[GA-1424]
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 18, 2011
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            Just out of curiosity, were the other stolen MS noted by Hoskier found also?
            Surrepti Vel Evanuerunt:
             
            HSK-175 [Absunt]
            HSK-195 [GA-1785]
            HSK-197 [GA-1424]
            HSK-198 [GA-1685] found AKA BXM: 001612
            HSK-199 [GA-1760]
            HSK-205 [GA-1806]
             
            Also, as a tertiary query, what of the GA numbers for the following? And, most being missing at the time of Hoskier, have they also been found?
            Hic non citati ; Neglectus Vel Delendi:
             
            Stephani Codex ις', 3, [Absunt]
            Codex Petavii Senatoris Parisiensis 2 (after Paulus Petavius) / Codex Petavianus Secundus, HSK-11, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum 1795; Lückenhaft, HSK-129, [GA-1795 2349]
            Manuscriptum 1857 Fragmento, HSK-131, [GA-1857]
            Manuscriptum 1870, HSK-133, [GA-1870]
            Manuscriptum 1872, HSK-134, [GA-1872]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-252, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-209vid, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum 1637 Abschrift Αντίγραφο (Daughter Copy), HSK-230a (abschrift) Daughter Copy of 230, [Absunt]
            Codex Vaticanus Beiblatt 1882; Vide: 1918, HSK-39supp (supplement), [GA-866b (beiblatt)]
            Manuscriptum 1668 Illegitima et Falso (Fake Servile Copy of Er. 3rd Ed.), HSK-235, [GA-1668]
            Codex Taurinensis, HSK-83, [GA-339]
            Codex Vaticanus 1976, HSK-116, [GA-2063]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-116, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum 866, HSK-117, [GA-866]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-117, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum 2072, HSK-168, [GA-2072]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-173, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum Fragmento Hic Non Citati, HSK-183, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum 1277, HSK-185, [GA-1277]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-225, [Absunt]
            Athos Lavrensis Θ' 152, HSK-231, [GA-1652]
            Manuscriptum 2114, HSK-234, [GA-2114]
            Manuscriptum 1776 (Some say Stephani Codex ιε'), HSK-237, [GA-1776]
            Manuscriptum 1777, HSK-238, [GA-1777]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-239, [Absunt]
            Manuscriptum 1903, HSK-243, [GA-1903]
            Manuscriptum 2136, HSK-247, [GA-2136]
            Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-249, [Absunt]
             
            Thank you,
             
            Richard
             
             
             

            From: Daniel B. Wallace <csntm@...>
            To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:07:18 PM
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

             
            CSNTM digitally photographed GA 1685 (aka BXM 01612) in May 2011. However, the Byzantine and Christian Museum does not permit us to post the images on our website. But scholars may visit our facilities to examine the photographs.

            Daniel B. Wallace, PhD
            Executive Director
            Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts
            www.csntm.org

            ----- Start Original Message -----
            Sent: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 06:17:53 -0800 (PST)
            From: Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...>
            To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

            > Thanks All.
            >  
            > The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.
            >  
            > I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for confirming what I was thinking.
            >  
            > Richard
            >
            > From: Jeff Cate <jjcate@...>
            > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:47:13 AM
            > Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
            >
            >  
            > Hi Richard,
            >
            >
            >
            Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.
            >  
            > Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
            > Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.
            > Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.
            >
            > Hope this is helpful,
            > --Jeff Cate,
            > Riverside, CA
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > On Sat, Nov 5,
            2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
            >  
            > >Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
            > >STOLEN:I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
            > > 
            > >Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
            > >
            > >So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
            > >
            > >Richard
            > >
            > >From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
            > >To:
            href="mailto:textualcriticism%40yahoogroups.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:textualcriticism%40yahoogroups.com">textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            > >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
            > >Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
            > >
            > > 
            > >The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  
            > >Gracia y paz, Bill Warren, Ph.D.Director of the Center for New Testament Textual StudiesLandrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and GreekNew Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
            > >On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:
            > > 
            > >>
            target=_blank>http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS? Year: 1292Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, SerresCreator: Theodosios of KinsosThe exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.

            ----- End Original Message -----


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