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Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

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  • Jan Krans
    That is indeed GA 1685; the Byzantine Museum catalogue signature is 155; the exhibition number (ΒΧΜ) is 1612. I saw the manuscript (on display) last summer
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 5, 2011
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      That is indeed GA 1685; the Byzantine Museum catalogue signature is 155; the exhibition number (ΒΧΜ) is 1612.
      I saw the manuscript (on display) last summer when I was in Athens.
      ΒΧΜ stands for Βυζαντινό και Χριστιανικό Μουσείο.

      The website (http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/) and a book I have (Ο κόσμος του Βυζαντινού Μουσείου, 2004) show some other plates, of which people may wish to know the GA numbers:

      GA N 022 (one sheet only) ΒΧΜ 862
      GA 1685 ΒΧΜ 1612
      GA 1687 ΒΧΜ 1610
      GA 1688 ΒΧΜ 1616
      GA 2117 ΒΧΜ 1134
      GA 2299 ΒΧΜ 1611
      GA 2522 ΒΧΜ 1619
      GA l 1655 ΒΧΜ 1609
      GA l 1657 ΒΧΜ 1039
      GA l 1658 ΒΧΜ 1042
      GA l 1660 ΒΧΜ 1041
      GA l 1798 ΒΧΜ 1613
      GA l 2004 ΒΧΜ 1486 β

      I may have missed one or two, but I leave those to others.

      Greetings, Jan Krans
      From: "richard.good..." <richard.goodgrief@...>
      Reply-To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2011 00:34:58 -0000
      To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

       

      http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612

      Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS?

      Year: 1292

      Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16
      Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, Serres
      Creator: Theodosios of Kinsos

      The exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.

    • Richard Andersen
      Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as: From: Bill Warren To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 5,
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 5, 2011
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        Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
        STOLEN: I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
         
        Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
         
        So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
         
        Richard
         

        From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

         
        The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  

        Gracia y paz, 

        Bill Warren, Ph.D.
        Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
        Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
        New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary



        On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:

         
        http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612

        Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS?

        Year: 1292

        Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16
        Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, Serres
        Creator: Theodosios of Kinsos

        The exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.




      • Jeff Cate
        Hi Richard, Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794).
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 5, 2011
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          Hi Richard,


          Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.

           

          Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
          Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.

          Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.


          Hope this is helpful,

          --Jeff Cate,
          Riverside, CA





          On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
           

          Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
          STOLEN: I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
           
          Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
           
          So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
           
          Richard
           

          From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
          To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
          Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

           
          The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  

          Gracia y paz, 

          Bill Warren, Ph.D.
          Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
          Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
          New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary



          On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:

           
          http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612

          Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS?

          Year: 1292

          Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16
          Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, Serres
          Creator: Theodosios of Kinsos

          The exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.





        • Richard Andersen
          Thanks All.   The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.   I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 6, 2011
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            Thanks All.
             
            The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.
             
            I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for confirming what I was thinking.
             
            Richard

            From: Jeff Cate <jjcate@...>
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:47:13 AM
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
             
            Hi Richard,

            Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.
             
            Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
            Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.
            Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.

            Hope this is helpful,
            --Jeff Cate,
            Riverside, CA



            On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
             
            Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
            STOLEN: I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
             
            Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
             
            So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
             
            Richard
             
            From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
             
            The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  
            Gracia y paz,  Bill Warren, Ph.D. Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
            On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:
             
            http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612 Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS? Year: 1292 Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16 Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, Serres Creator: Theodosios of Kinsos The exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.
          • Daniel B. Wallace
            CSNTM digitally photographed GA 1685 (aka BXM 01612) in May 2011. However, the Byzantine and Christian Museum does not permit us to post the images on our
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 9, 2011
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              CSNTM digitally photographed GA 1685 (aka BXM 01612) in May 2011. However, the Byzantine and Christian Museum does not permit us to post the images on our website. But scholars may visit our facilities to examine the photographs.

              Daniel B. Wallace, PhD
              Executive Director
              Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts
              www.csntm.org




              ----- Start Original Message -----
              Sent: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 06:17:53 -0800 (PST)
              From: Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...>
              To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

              > Thanks All.
              >  
              > The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.
              >  
              > I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for confirming what I was thinking.
              >  
              > Richard
              >
              > From: Jeff Cate <jjcate@...>
              > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:47:13 AM
              > Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
              >
              >  
              > Hi Richard,
              >
              >
              > Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.
              >  
              > Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
              > Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.
              > Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.
              >
              > Hope this is helpful,
              > --Jeff Cate,
              > Riverside, CA
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
              >  
              > >Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
              > >STOLEN:I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
              > > 
              > >Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
              > >
              > >So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
              > >
              > >Richard
              > >
              > >From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
              > >To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              > >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
              > >Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
              > >
              > > 
              > >The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  
              > >Gracia y paz, Bill Warren, Ph.D.Director of the Center for New Testament Textual StudiesLandrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and GreekNew Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
              > >On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:
              > > 
              > >>http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS? Year: 1292Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, SerresCreator: Theodosios of KinsosThe exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.

              ----- End Original Message -----
            • Richard Andersen
              Just out of curiosity, were the other stolen MS noted by Hoskier found also? Surrepti Vel Evanuerunt:  HSK-175 [Absunt] HSK-195[GA-1785] HSK-197[GA-1424]
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 18, 2011
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                Just out of curiosity, were the other stolen MS noted by Hoskier found also?
                Surrepti Vel Evanuerunt:
                 
                HSK-175 [Absunt]
                HSK-195 [GA-1785]
                HSK-197 [GA-1424]
                HSK-198 [GA-1685] found AKA BXM: 001612
                HSK-199 [GA-1760]
                HSK-205 [GA-1806]
                 
                Also, as a tertiary query, what of the GA numbers for the following? And, most being missing at the time of Hoskier, have they also been found?
                Hic non citati ; Neglectus Vel Delendi:
                 
                Stephani Codex ις', 3, [Absunt]
                Codex Petavii Senatoris Parisiensis 2 (after Paulus Petavius) / Codex Petavianus Secundus, HSK-11, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum 1795; Lückenhaft, HSK-129, [GA-1795 2349]
                Manuscriptum 1857 Fragmento, HSK-131, [GA-1857]
                Manuscriptum 1870, HSK-133, [GA-1870]
                Manuscriptum 1872, HSK-134, [GA-1872]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-252, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-209vid, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum 1637 Abschrift Αντίγραφο (Daughter Copy), HSK-230a (abschrift) Daughter Copy of 230, [Absunt]
                Codex Vaticanus Beiblatt 1882; Vide: 1918, HSK-39supp (supplement), [GA-866b (beiblatt)]
                Manuscriptum 1668 Illegitima et Falso (Fake Servile Copy of Er. 3rd Ed.), HSK-235, [GA-1668]
                Codex Taurinensis, HSK-83, [GA-339]
                Codex Vaticanus 1976, HSK-116, [GA-2063]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-116, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum 866, HSK-117, [GA-866]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-117, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum 2072, HSK-168, [GA-2072]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-173, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum Fragmento Hic Non Citati, HSK-183, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum 1277, HSK-185, [GA-1277]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-225, [Absunt]
                Athos Lavrensis Θ' 152, HSK-231, [GA-1652]
                Manuscriptum 2114, HSK-234, [GA-2114]
                Manuscriptum 1776 (Some say Stephani Codex ιε'), HSK-237, [GA-1776]
                Manuscriptum 1777, HSK-238, [GA-1777]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-239, [Absunt]
                Manuscriptum 1903, HSK-243, [GA-1903]
                Manuscriptum 2136, HSK-247, [GA-2136]
                Manuscriptum Hic Non Citati, HSK-249, [Absunt]
                 
                Thank you,
                 
                Richard
                 
                 
                 

                From: Daniel B. Wallace <csntm@...>
                To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2011 1:07:18 PM
                Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

                 
                CSNTM digitally photographed GA 1685 (aka BXM 01612) in May 2011. However, the Byzantine and Christian Museum does not permit us to post the images on our website. But scholars may visit our facilities to examine the photographs.

                Daniel B. Wallace, PhD
                Executive Director
                Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts
                www.csntm.org

                ----- Start Original Message -----
                Sent: Sun, 6 Nov 2011 06:17:53 -0800 (PST)
                From: Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...>
                To: "textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com" <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos

                > Thanks All.
                >  
                > The only link is to a one page scan... unfortunately.
                >  
                > I hope you can see it and share... Thanks again to all for your comments... and for confirming what I was thinking.
                >  
                > Richard
                >
                > From: Jeff Cate <jjcate@...>
                > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sunday, November 6, 2011 5:47:13 AM
                > Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
                >
                >  
                > Hi Richard,
                >
                >
                >
                Interesting... 1685 is one of only 10 mss with the combination of 4 Gospels & Rev (792, 1006, 1064, 1328, 1551, 1685, 2323, 2643, 2656, and 2794). I am able to see only one image of the manuscript... the canon tables at the front. Am I overlooking a link somewhere to see more images of it? I'm curious to look it over since I was recently examining 2643 (another XIII ms of the 4 Gospels & Rev) that's only a few miles from my house.
                >  
                > Regarding the manuscript being stolen, Elliott's bibliography cites 4 sources on #1685... 2 of which wrote after Hoskier did in 1929:
                > Schmid, Josef. Studien zur Geschichte des griechischen Apokalypse-Textes (1955-56), pp. 44, 196-197.
                > Spatharakis, I. Corpus of Dated Illuminated Greek Manuscripts (1981), nr 203, plates 369-70.
                >
                > Hope this is helpful,
                > --Jeff Cate,
                > Riverside, CA
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > On Sat, Nov 5,
                2011 at 7:04 AM, Richard Andersen <richard.goodgrief@...> wrote:
                >  
                > >Thats what I was thinking, but Hoisker has it listed as:
                > >STOLEN:I understand from Dr. Bolides of Athens, that during the late war the Bulgarians (or their German officers) made away with all these MSS and they have doubless been sold after obliteration of Library marks, and may not easily be identified.
                > > 
                > >Tischendorf et all. also left blank due to this.
                > >
                > >So, then am I to assume that this is the stolen MS found again?
                > >
                > >Richard
                > >
                > >From: Bill Warren <WFWarren@...>
                > >To:
                href="mailto:textualcriticism%40yahoogroups.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:textualcriticism%40yahoogroups.com">textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                > >Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2011 9:48:18 PM
                > >Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] BXM: 001612 Theodosios of Kinsos
                > >
                > > 
                > >The most likely candidate would seem to be MS 1685 based on the KL.  That would be a parchment MS of the Gospels and Rev., so the info fits what is on the website from the BXM.  
                > >Gracia y paz, Bill Warren, Ph.D.Director of the Center for New Testament Textual StudiesLandrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and GreekNew Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
                > >On Nov 4, 2011, at 7:34 PM, richard.good... wrote:
                > > 
                > >>
                target=_blank>http://www.byzantinemuseum.gr/en/collections/manuscripts/?bxm=1612Could anyone tell me the Gregory number for this MS? Year: 1292Dimensions (cm): 22,5 x 16Provenance: St John the Baptist Monastery, SerresCreator: Theodosios of KinsosThe exact date of the codex (1292) is accompanied by the name of the scribe, the monk Theodosios of Kinsos. The exceptionally high quality of the text corresponds to the fine execution of the miniatures. There are canon tables on ff 5v-6r which give concordances between the gospels.

                ----- End Original Message -----


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