Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [textualcriticism] Re: A Beginner

Expand Messages
  • Kevin W. Woodruff
    I would have to respectfully disagree. All of the founding fathers of textual criticism (of whom I have nothing but respect) were unaware of the papyri finds
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 3, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      I would have to respectfully disagree. All of the
      founding fathers of textual criticism (of whom I have
      nothing but respect) were unaware of the papyri finds
      at Oxyrhynchus that have completely revolutionized
      textual criticism. A beginner will have difficulty
      (both practically and monetarily) getting a hold of
      any of the works recommended (with the exception of
      Burgon and Scrivener), As a beginner, pre-digested
      pablum is sometimes a desirable thing.

      Kevin


      --- bucksburg <elwabook@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Si wrote:
      > <<I'm brand-new to this group. I've been studying NT
      > Greek for nearly
      > two years and am really interested in the little I
      > have learned about
      > Textual Criticism in that time.
      >
      > I'm wondering what's the best next step to take to
      > develop my
      > understanding and knowledge of the subject?>>
      >
      > Kevin wrote:
      > <I would recommend reading the following books to
      > give
      > you a general idea of the theory and practice of
      > textual criticism:
      > Black, 1994
      > Greenlee, 1995, 1985.
      > Elliot, 1995.
      > Vaganay, 1991.
      > Aland, 1989.
      > Comfort, 1992 1990.
      > Black, 2002.
      > Finegan, 1974
      > Metzger, 1981.>
      >
      > Si, I wouldn't recommend you read any of these books
      > quite yet. Note
      > that they were mostly written in the 1980's and
      > 1990's. Now, textual
      > criticism has been around for centuries, and just
      > about everything
      > anyone needs to know about the CONTROVERSY and
      > METHODS of tc was
      > already in print 100 years ago. So books written in
      > the 1980's
      > basically only re-hashed what was written in the
      > 50's (of course
      > tying in any new textual discoveries, of which there
      > were very few
      > during that time), which in turn only re-hashed what
      > was written in
      > the 1920's, which in turn re-hashed what was written
      > in the late
      > 1800's, with the addition of quite a few textual
      > discoveries which
      > had gone a long way toward discrediting much of what
      > was written so
      > authoritatively in the late 1800's.
      >
      > Just to warn you, all of the above books will
      > eventually be
      > obsolete, replaced by the corrected and updated
      > editions which will
      > be coming off the presses in the next 20 years, by
      > which time the
      > entire NT MSS corpus will probably be available
      > online and the text
      > of the NT will finally have been collated against
      > every extant
      > manuscript.
      >
      > I suggest that you restrict yourself for now to
      > reading the founding
      > fathers of textual criticism: Greisbach, Tregelles,
      > Hort, Burgon,
      > and Scrivener. Once you find yourself agreeing with
      > any of their
      > approaches to textual criticism (and they differ
      > widely), THEN read
      > the modern experts to see why they consider the
      > approaches of the
      > above giants to be obsolete and outdated (and they,
      > too, differ
      > widely).
      >
      > It will take a lot of work to get your hands on the
      > books I
      > recommend. Some of what Burgon wrote is back in
      > print now, but most
      > of his NT textual commentary is still in ms form at
      > some museum in
      > Britain (something like 30,000 pages as I recall).
      > But if you want
      > to avoid pre-digested pablum in coming to your own
      > conclusions on
      > this very important but highly controversial
      > subject, you are not
      > going to be able to avoid a lot of work.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > --------------------~-->
      > Would you Help a Child in need?
      > It is easier than you think.
      > Click Here to meet a Child you can help.
      >
      http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/GuTslB/TM
      >
      --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      > textualcriticism-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >

      Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S.
      Library Director/Reference Librarian, Professor of Bible and Greek
      Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
      Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
      423/493-4252 (office) 423/698-9447 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
      Cierpke@... http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm
    • spatter5on
      ... A few months ago I found photos/scans of (i think) the whole of sinaitucus and other ancient manuscripts on the internet somewhere...but I ve lost the
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 4, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Jim West <jwest@h...> wrote:

        > If you can get hold of a manuscript- like Sinaiticus

        A few months ago I found photos/scans of (i think) the whole of
        sinaitucus and other ancient manuscripts on the internet
        somewhere...but I've lost the link. Does anyone know the site. I
        though there was a link to it from Rod Deckers site, but I can't find
        it now...?

        PS - Thanks Jim and everyone else for your suggestions and
        recommendations...it'll look into them...


        Si~
      • Wieland Willker
        Some (pseudo-)facsimiles can be found at: http://www.bibles.org.uk/pdf/bibles/00README.shtml The following two online-works are a MUST-READ: Westcott-Hort
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 4, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          Some (pseudo-)facsimiles can be found at:
          http://www.bibles.org.uk/pdf/bibles/00README.shtml

          The following two online-works are a MUST-READ:
          Westcott-Hort intro:
          http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/Ebind/docs/TC/WH1881/
          (password: "any" - "any")

          THE FOUR GOSPELS by B.H. Streeter
          http://www.katapi.org.uk/4Gospels/Contents.htm


          you should perhaps also read Robert Waltz' Encyclopedia in toto:
          http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/

          some more links:
          http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/bibel.html#text

          Best wishes
          Wieland
          <><
          ------------------------------------------------
          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
          mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
          Textcritical commentary:
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
        • William Warren
          I would agree with Kevin on the starting point being well served through some of the more recent introductory works in the field. I ve found that a general
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 4, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            I would agree with Kevin on the starting point being well served
            through some of the more recent introductory works in the field. I've
            found that a general information base that is as up-to-date as possible
            provides a basic knowledge or overview of the field that is needed by
            most for digesting the earlier seminal works. On the other hand, I
            have a number of students in my intro to NT TC courses that are not
            going to take more than an intro. course to TC, so I need to provide as
            good an overview of the field as possible in just one semester. If
            students on the front end already know that they want to go further in
            TC than the intro course, that would perhaps warrant a different
            approach. I would also suggest that some acquaintance with the mss. is
            indispensable, with collating (as several have suggested) and
            observation of the marginalia, etc. essential.

            May I also posit a further question in this discussion? What are those
            who teach TC actually doing in their intro courses? I think a
            description of what the courses cover would be beneficial to all. For
            example, in my M.Div. intro. course, I use Metzger, Aland and Aland,
            and Ehrman and Holmes as the main textbooks for the history and theory
            side. I've had students make a page of papyrus more often than not and
            write a favorite verse from a ms. or the GNT on it so they could get a
            sense of both the materials and processes for papyrus. I use about 2/3
            of the course for covering the history of the text and method, with
            collating being done in conjunction with this part so that the nature
            of the variants and differences between mss. and text-types can be
            understood, then the last 1/3 of the course covers specific variants in
            the NT, and looking at the variants in various mss. (via facsimilies
            and photocopies from microfilms) to verify the citations in the
            critical editions. In this last 1/3, students use both GNT and N-A,
            Metzger's textual commentary, and other commentaries on the specific
            passages that deal with the textual variant under consideration.
            Readings in works like Westcott and Hort and other seminal works as
            well as other current works are encouraged through reports, extra
            credit projects, work on the specific variants, etc. These seminal
            works are then covered in further courses in the area.

            An advanced M.Div. level course builds on this one with more emphasis
            on paleographical features, collating, and methods of analysis (with
            more readings in the seminal works included at this level). A course
            on the history of the Bible with major emphasis on canon development is
            also offered. From that point, we begin Ph.D. level seminars.

            paz,

            Bill Warren
            Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
            Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
            New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
            On Apr 3, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Kevin W. Woodruff wrote:

            >
            >
            > I would have to respectfully disagree. All of the
            > founding fathers of textual criticism (of whom I have
            > nothing but respect) were unaware of the papyri finds
            > at Oxyrhynchus that have completely revolutionized
            > textual criticism. A beginner will have difficulty
            > (both practically and monetarily) getting a hold of
            > any of the works recommended (with the exception of
            > Burgon and Scrivener), As a beginner, pre-digested
            > pablum is sometimes a desirable thing.
            >
            > Kevin
            >
            >
            > --- bucksburg <elwabook@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Si wrote:
            >> <<I'm brand-new to this group. I've been studying NT
            >> Greek for nearly
            >> two years and am really interested in the little I
            >> have learned about
            >> Textual Criticism in that time.
            >>
            >> I'm wondering what's the best next step to take to
            >> develop my
            >> understanding and knowledge of the subject?>>
            >>
            >> Kevin wrote:
            >> <I would recommend reading the following books to
            >> give
            >> you a general idea of the theory and practice of
            >> textual criticism:
            >> Black, 1994
            >> Greenlee, 1995, 1985.
            >> Elliot, 1995.
            >> Vaganay, 1991.
            >> Aland, 1989.
            >> Comfort, 1992 1990.
            >> Black, 2002.
            >> Finegan, 1974
            >> Metzger, 1981.>
            >>
            >> Si, I wouldn't recommend you read any of these books
            >> quite yet. Note
            >> that they were mostly written in the 1980's and
            >> 1990's. Now, textual
            >> criticism has been around for centuries, and just
            >> about everything
            >> anyone needs to know about the CONTROVERSY and
            >> METHODS of tc was
            >> already in print 100 years ago. So books written in
            >> the 1980's
            >> basically only re-hashed what was written in the
            >> 50's (of course
            >> tying in any new textual discoveries, of which there
            >> were very few
            >> during that time), which in turn only re-hashed what
            >> was written in
            >> the 1920's, which in turn re-hashed what was written
            >> in the late
            >> 1800's, with the addition of quite a few textual
            >> discoveries which
            >> had gone a long way toward discrediting much of what
            >> was written so
            >> authoritatively in the late 1800's.
            >>
            >> Just to warn you, all of the above books will
            >> eventually be
            >> obsolete, replaced by the corrected and updated
            >> editions which will
            >> be coming off the presses in the next 20 years, by
            >> which time the
            >> entire NT MSS corpus will probably be available
            >> online and the text
            >> of the NT will finally have been collated against
            >> every extant
            >> manuscript.
            >>
            >> I suggest that you restrict yourself for now to
            >> reading the founding
            >> fathers of textual criticism: Greisbach, Tregelles,
            >> Hort, Burgon,
            >> and Scrivener. Once you find yourself agreeing with
            >> any of their
            >> approaches to textual criticism (and they differ
            >> widely), THEN read
            >> the modern experts to see why they consider the
            >> approaches of the
            >> above giants to be obsolete and outdated (and they,
            >> too, differ
            >> widely).
            >>
            >> It will take a lot of work to get your hands on the
            >> books I
            >> recommend. Some of what Burgon wrote is back in
            >> print now, but most
            >> of his NT textual commentary is still in ms form at
            >> some museum in
            >> Britain (something like 30,000 pages as I recall).
            >> But if you want
            >> to avoid pre-digested pablum in coming to your own
            >> conclusions on
            >> this very important but highly controversial
            >> subject, you are not
            >> going to be able to avoid a lot of work.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >> textualcriticism-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            > Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S.
            > Library Director/Reference Librarian, Professor of Bible and Greek
            > Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
            > Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
            > 423/493-4252 (office) 423/698-9447 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
            > Cierpke@... http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.