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Re: [textualcriticism] A Beginner

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  • Kevin W. Woodruff
    Si: I would recommend reading the following books to give you a general idea of the theory and practice of textual criticism: Black, David Alan, New Testament
    Message 1 of 10 , Apr 1, 2005
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      Si:

      I would recommend reading the following books to give
      you a general idea of the theory and practice of
      textual criticism:

      Black, David Alan, New Testament Textual criticism: A
      Concise Guide. Grand Rapids: Baker, 1994

      Greenlee, J. Harold Introduction to New Testament
      Textual Criticism. Rev. ed. Peabody, Mass:
      Hendrickson, 1995.

      Greenlee, J. Harold Scribes, Scrolls & Scripture.
      Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1985.

      Elliot, Keith, and Ian Moir. Manuscripts and the Text
      of the New Testament. Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1995.

      Vaganay, Leon and Christian-Bernard Amphoux. An
      Introduction to New Testament Textual Criticism.
      Cambridge University Press, 1991.

      Aland, Kurt, and Barbara Aland. The Text of the New
      Testament. Rev. ed. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1989.

      Comfort, Philip Wesley. The Quest for the Original
      Text for the New Testament Grand Rapids: Baker, 1992.

      Comfort Philip Wesley. Early Manuscripts & Modern
      Translations of the New Testament. Grand Rapids:
      Baker, 1990.

      Black, David Alan, ed. Rethinking New Testament
      Textual Criticism. Grand Rapids Baker, 2002.

      Finegan, Jack. Encountering New Testament Manuscripts.
      Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1974

      Metzger, Bruce M. Manuscripts of the Greek Bible: An
      Introduction to Paleography. Oxford University Press,
      1981.

      Kevin



      --- spatter5on <spatter5on@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I'm brand-new to this group. I've been studying NT
      > Greek for nearly
      > two years and am really interested in the little I
      > have learned about
      > Textual Criticism in that time.
      >
      > I'm wondering what's the best next step to take to
      > develope my
      > understanding and knowledge of the subject? I've
      > read a little bit
      > from the internet and Aland's book "Text of the NT".
      >
      > Is it just a case of studying up on some of the more
      > important
      > documents? Or spending more time in the apparatus of
      > NA? I'm thinking
      > of buying Metzger's Textual Commentary...so I can
      > understand more
      > about variation and why certain ones are
      > preferred...is that a wise move?
      >
      > Thanks (in advance) for your help.
      >
      > Si~
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S.
      Library Director/Reference Librarian, Professor of Bible and Greek
      Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
      Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
      423/493-4252 (office) 423/698-9447 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
      Cierpke@... http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm
    • bucksburg
      Si wrote:
      Message 2 of 10 , Apr 2, 2005
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        Si wrote:
        <<I'm brand-new to this group. I've been studying NT Greek for nearly
        two years and am really interested in the little I have learned about
        Textual Criticism in that time.

        I'm wondering what's the best next step to take to develop my
        understanding and knowledge of the subject?>>

        Kevin wrote:
        <I would recommend reading the following books to give
        you a general idea of the theory and practice of
        textual criticism:
        Black, 1994
        Greenlee, 1995, 1985.
        Elliot, 1995.
        Vaganay, 1991.
        Aland, 1989.
        Comfort, 1992 1990.
        Black, 2002.
        Finegan, 1974
        Metzger, 1981.>

        Si, I wouldn't recommend you read any of these books quite yet. Note
        that they were mostly written in the 1980's and 1990's. Now, textual
        criticism has been around for centuries, and just about everything
        anyone needs to know about the CONTROVERSY and METHODS of tc was
        already in print 100 years ago. So books written in the 1980's
        basically only re-hashed what was written in the 50's (of course
        tying in any new textual discoveries, of which there were very few
        during that time), which in turn only re-hashed what was written in
        the 1920's, which in turn re-hashed what was written in the late
        1800's, with the addition of quite a few textual discoveries which
        had gone a long way toward discrediting much of what was written so
        authoritatively in the late 1800's.

        Just to warn you, all of the above books will eventually be
        obsolete, replaced by the corrected and updated editions which will
        be coming off the presses in the next 20 years, by which time the
        entire NT MSS corpus will probably be available online and the text
        of the NT will finally have been collated against every extant
        manuscript.

        I suggest that you restrict yourself for now to reading the founding
        fathers of textual criticism: Greisbach, Tregelles, Hort, Burgon,
        and Scrivener. Once you find yourself agreeing with any of their
        approaches to textual criticism (and they differ widely), THEN read
        the modern experts to see why they consider the approaches of the
        above giants to be obsolete and outdated (and they, too, differ
        widely).

        It will take a lot of work to get your hands on the books I
        recommend. Some of what Burgon wrote is back in print now, but most
        of his NT textual commentary is still in ms form at some museum in
        Britain (something like 30,000 pages as I recall). But if you want
        to avoid pre-digested pablum in coming to your own conclusions on
        this very important but highly controversial subject, you are not
        going to be able to avoid a lot of work.
      • bucksburg
        I m sorry, I momentarily forgot to include Tischendorf on that list of TC founding fathers. Actually, though, I think you can restrict yourself to the founding
        Message 3 of 10 , Apr 2, 2005
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          I'm sorry, I momentarily forgot to include Tischendorf on that list of
          TC founding fathers. Actually, though, I think you can restrict
          yourself to the founding fathers whose works were published in English
          (Tregelles, Hort, Burgon, and Scrivener) and not be out a whole lot.
          Otherwise, you are going to have to do a lot of reading in German and
          Latin.
          Daniel Buck
        • Kevin W. Woodruff
          I would have to respectfully disagree. All of the founding fathers of textual criticism (of whom I have nothing but respect) were unaware of the papyri finds
          Message 4 of 10 , Apr 3, 2005
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            I would have to respectfully disagree. All of the
            founding fathers of textual criticism (of whom I have
            nothing but respect) were unaware of the papyri finds
            at Oxyrhynchus that have completely revolutionized
            textual criticism. A beginner will have difficulty
            (both practically and monetarily) getting a hold of
            any of the works recommended (with the exception of
            Burgon and Scrivener), As a beginner, pre-digested
            pablum is sometimes a desirable thing.

            Kevin


            --- bucksburg <elwabook@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > Si wrote:
            > <<I'm brand-new to this group. I've been studying NT
            > Greek for nearly
            > two years and am really interested in the little I
            > have learned about
            > Textual Criticism in that time.
            >
            > I'm wondering what's the best next step to take to
            > develop my
            > understanding and knowledge of the subject?>>
            >
            > Kevin wrote:
            > <I would recommend reading the following books to
            > give
            > you a general idea of the theory and practice of
            > textual criticism:
            > Black, 1994
            > Greenlee, 1995, 1985.
            > Elliot, 1995.
            > Vaganay, 1991.
            > Aland, 1989.
            > Comfort, 1992 1990.
            > Black, 2002.
            > Finegan, 1974
            > Metzger, 1981.>
            >
            > Si, I wouldn't recommend you read any of these books
            > quite yet. Note
            > that they were mostly written in the 1980's and
            > 1990's. Now, textual
            > criticism has been around for centuries, and just
            > about everything
            > anyone needs to know about the CONTROVERSY and
            > METHODS of tc was
            > already in print 100 years ago. So books written in
            > the 1980's
            > basically only re-hashed what was written in the
            > 50's (of course
            > tying in any new textual discoveries, of which there
            > were very few
            > during that time), which in turn only re-hashed what
            > was written in
            > the 1920's, which in turn re-hashed what was written
            > in the late
            > 1800's, with the addition of quite a few textual
            > discoveries which
            > had gone a long way toward discrediting much of what
            > was written so
            > authoritatively in the late 1800's.
            >
            > Just to warn you, all of the above books will
            > eventually be
            > obsolete, replaced by the corrected and updated
            > editions which will
            > be coming off the presses in the next 20 years, by
            > which time the
            > entire NT MSS corpus will probably be available
            > online and the text
            > of the NT will finally have been collated against
            > every extant
            > manuscript.
            >
            > I suggest that you restrict yourself for now to
            > reading the founding
            > fathers of textual criticism: Greisbach, Tregelles,
            > Hort, Burgon,
            > and Scrivener. Once you find yourself agreeing with
            > any of their
            > approaches to textual criticism (and they differ
            > widely), THEN read
            > the modern experts to see why they consider the
            > approaches of the
            > above giants to be obsolete and outdated (and they,
            > too, differ
            > widely).
            >
            > It will take a lot of work to get your hands on the
            > books I
            > recommend. Some of what Burgon wrote is back in
            > print now, but most
            > of his NT textual commentary is still in ms form at
            > some museum in
            > Britain (something like 30,000 pages as I recall).
            > But if you want
            > to avoid pre-digested pablum in coming to your own
            > conclusions on
            > this very important but highly controversial
            > subject, you are not
            > going to be able to avoid a lot of work.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > --------------------~-->
            > Would you Help a Child in need?
            > It is easier than you think.
            > Click Here to meet a Child you can help.
            >
            http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/GuTslB/TM
            >
            --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            > textualcriticism-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
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            >

            Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S.
            Library Director/Reference Librarian, Professor of Bible and Greek
            Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
            Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
            423/493-4252 (office) 423/698-9447 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
            Cierpke@... http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm
          • spatter5on
            ... A few months ago I found photos/scans of (i think) the whole of sinaitucus and other ancient manuscripts on the internet somewhere...but I ve lost the
            Message 5 of 10 , Apr 4, 2005
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              --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Jim West <jwest@h...> wrote:

              > If you can get hold of a manuscript- like Sinaiticus

              A few months ago I found photos/scans of (i think) the whole of
              sinaitucus and other ancient manuscripts on the internet
              somewhere...but I've lost the link. Does anyone know the site. I
              though there was a link to it from Rod Deckers site, but I can't find
              it now...?

              PS - Thanks Jim and everyone else for your suggestions and
              recommendations...it'll look into them...


              Si~
            • Wieland Willker
              Some (pseudo-)facsimiles can be found at: http://www.bibles.org.uk/pdf/bibles/00README.shtml The following two online-works are a MUST-READ: Westcott-Hort
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 4, 2005
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                Some (pseudo-)facsimiles can be found at:
                http://www.bibles.org.uk/pdf/bibles/00README.shtml

                The following two online-works are a MUST-READ:
                Westcott-Hort intro:
                http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/Ebind/docs/TC/WH1881/
                (password: "any" - "any")

                THE FOUR GOSPELS by B.H. Streeter
                http://www.katapi.org.uk/4Gospels/Contents.htm


                you should perhaps also read Robert Waltz' Encyclopedia in toto:
                http://www.skypoint.com/~waltzmn/

                some more links:
                http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/bibel.html#text

                Best wishes
                Wieland
                <><
                ------------------------------------------------
                Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
                http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                Textcritical commentary:
                http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
              • William Warren
                I would agree with Kevin on the starting point being well served through some of the more recent introductory works in the field. I ve found that a general
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 4, 2005
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                  I would agree with Kevin on the starting point being well served
                  through some of the more recent introductory works in the field. I've
                  found that a general information base that is as up-to-date as possible
                  provides a basic knowledge or overview of the field that is needed by
                  most for digesting the earlier seminal works. On the other hand, I
                  have a number of students in my intro to NT TC courses that are not
                  going to take more than an intro. course to TC, so I need to provide as
                  good an overview of the field as possible in just one semester. If
                  students on the front end already know that they want to go further in
                  TC than the intro course, that would perhaps warrant a different
                  approach. I would also suggest that some acquaintance with the mss. is
                  indispensable, with collating (as several have suggested) and
                  observation of the marginalia, etc. essential.

                  May I also posit a further question in this discussion? What are those
                  who teach TC actually doing in their intro courses? I think a
                  description of what the courses cover would be beneficial to all. For
                  example, in my M.Div. intro. course, I use Metzger, Aland and Aland,
                  and Ehrman and Holmes as the main textbooks for the history and theory
                  side. I've had students make a page of papyrus more often than not and
                  write a favorite verse from a ms. or the GNT on it so they could get a
                  sense of both the materials and processes for papyrus. I use about 2/3
                  of the course for covering the history of the text and method, with
                  collating being done in conjunction with this part so that the nature
                  of the variants and differences between mss. and text-types can be
                  understood, then the last 1/3 of the course covers specific variants in
                  the NT, and looking at the variants in various mss. (via facsimilies
                  and photocopies from microfilms) to verify the citations in the
                  critical editions. In this last 1/3, students use both GNT and N-A,
                  Metzger's textual commentary, and other commentaries on the specific
                  passages that deal with the textual variant under consideration.
                  Readings in works like Westcott and Hort and other seminal works as
                  well as other current works are encouraged through reports, extra
                  credit projects, work on the specific variants, etc. These seminal
                  works are then covered in further courses in the area.

                  An advanced M.Div. level course builds on this one with more emphasis
                  on paleographical features, collating, and methods of analysis (with
                  more readings in the seminal works included at this level). A course
                  on the history of the Bible with major emphasis on canon development is
                  also offered. From that point, we begin Ph.D. level seminars.

                  paz,

                  Bill Warren
                  Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
                  Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
                  New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
                  On Apr 3, 2005, at 12:40 PM, Kevin W. Woodruff wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  > I would have to respectfully disagree. All of the
                  > founding fathers of textual criticism (of whom I have
                  > nothing but respect) were unaware of the papyri finds
                  > at Oxyrhynchus that have completely revolutionized
                  > textual criticism. A beginner will have difficulty
                  > (both practically and monetarily) getting a hold of
                  > any of the works recommended (with the exception of
                  > Burgon and Scrivener), As a beginner, pre-digested
                  > pablum is sometimes a desirable thing.
                  >
                  > Kevin
                  >
                  >
                  > --- bucksburg <elwabook@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Si wrote:
                  >> <<I'm brand-new to this group. I've been studying NT
                  >> Greek for nearly
                  >> two years and am really interested in the little I
                  >> have learned about
                  >> Textual Criticism in that time.
                  >>
                  >> I'm wondering what's the best next step to take to
                  >> develop my
                  >> understanding and knowledge of the subject?>>
                  >>
                  >> Kevin wrote:
                  >> <I would recommend reading the following books to
                  >> give
                  >> you a general idea of the theory and practice of
                  >> textual criticism:
                  >> Black, 1994
                  >> Greenlee, 1995, 1985.
                  >> Elliot, 1995.
                  >> Vaganay, 1991.
                  >> Aland, 1989.
                  >> Comfort, 1992 1990.
                  >> Black, 2002.
                  >> Finegan, 1974
                  >> Metzger, 1981.>
                  >>
                  >> Si, I wouldn't recommend you read any of these books
                  >> quite yet. Note
                  >> that they were mostly written in the 1980's and
                  >> 1990's. Now, textual
                  >> criticism has been around for centuries, and just
                  >> about everything
                  >> anyone needs to know about the CONTROVERSY and
                  >> METHODS of tc was
                  >> already in print 100 years ago. So books written in
                  >> the 1980's
                  >> basically only re-hashed what was written in the
                  >> 50's (of course
                  >> tying in any new textual discoveries, of which there
                  >> were very few
                  >> during that time), which in turn only re-hashed what
                  >> was written in
                  >> the 1920's, which in turn re-hashed what was written
                  >> in the late
                  >> 1800's, with the addition of quite a few textual
                  >> discoveries which
                  >> had gone a long way toward discrediting much of what
                  >> was written so
                  >> authoritatively in the late 1800's.
                  >>
                  >> Just to warn you, all of the above books will
                  >> eventually be
                  >> obsolete, replaced by the corrected and updated
                  >> editions which will
                  >> be coming off the presses in the next 20 years, by
                  >> which time the
                  >> entire NT MSS corpus will probably be available
                  >> online and the text
                  >> of the NT will finally have been collated against
                  >> every extant
                  >> manuscript.
                  >>
                  >> I suggest that you restrict yourself for now to
                  >> reading the founding
                  >> fathers of textual criticism: Greisbach, Tregelles,
                  >> Hort, Burgon,
                  >> and Scrivener. Once you find yourself agreeing with
                  >> any of their
                  >> approaches to textual criticism (and they differ
                  >> widely), THEN read
                  >> the modern experts to see why they consider the
                  >> approaches of the
                  >> above giants to be obsolete and outdated (and they,
                  >> too, differ
                  >> widely).
                  >>
                  >> It will take a lot of work to get your hands on the
                  >> books I
                  >> recommend. Some of what Burgon wrote is back in
                  >> print now, but most
                  >> of his NT textual commentary is still in ms form at
                  >> some museum in
                  >> Britain (something like 30,000 pages as I recall).
                  >> But if you want
                  >> to avoid pre-digested pablum in coming to your own
                  >> conclusions on
                  >> this very important but highly controversial
                  >> subject, you are not
                  >> going to be able to avoid a lot of work.
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> textualcriticism-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  > Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S.
                  > Library Director/Reference Librarian, Professor of Bible and Greek
                  > Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
                  > Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
                  > 423/493-4252 (office) 423/698-9447 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
                  > Cierpke@... http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
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