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Re: [textualcriticism] John 19:14 likely a mistranslation.

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  • Barry H.
    [EDIT: I m sorry, that one slipped through the moderation. --- THREAD CLOSED. - Wieland] ... From: Larry To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday,
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 18, 2011
      [EDIT: I'm sorry, that one slipped through the moderation. --- THREAD CLOSED. - Wieland]



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Larry
      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 18, 2011 2:14 AM
      Subject: [textualcriticism] John 19:14 likely a mistranslation.



      >John 19:14 uses the Greek word "de" (but) in front of "preparation" but no
      >other references to the day of preparation utilize this combination, even
      >in the same syntax.

      >Comparison texts are:
      Mark 15:42 "...since it was preparation"
      Luke 23:54 "...it was the day of preparation"
      John 19:31 "...since it was preparation"

      >JOHN 19:14 "It was but-preparation"

      I normally just lurk here, since TC is an interest of mine, but not a
      specialization, and I prefer to learn from people for whom it is their
      lifeblood, so to speak. However...

      1) This *is* a list devoted to text critical issues on the NT. I see no
      significant TC issue here concering δέ, though some mss follow with δέ with
      ὡς. I have to wonder why you are posting it here and not a list devoted to
      the study of Greek as a language or translation issues.

      2) While I personally could care a less whether it was Thursday or Friday
      (the fact/idea of the crucifixion is personlly more important to me than the
      precise chronology), your entire "thesis" is based on a misunderstanding of
      how δέ is used. It is not an adjective or adverb which modifies particular
      words in the sentence, but a particle which shows the relationshp of the
      clause containing it to the previous clause. It's a narrative marker. As
      such, depending on context, it can be translated "but" (especially when the
      preceding clause contains a μέν), but it can also be translated in a variety
      of other ways, such as "and" or "now" or "so." It may, surprisingly often,
      be left untranslated, since what it's doing in the Greek is often expressed
      by context and narrative sequence in English translation. Your presentation
      simply shows that your Greek is weak -- very weak, in fact.

      3) Why are you insulting all the nice Bible scholars (and I have no idea who
      these people are, and really don't care)? That all the translators and
      commentators have gotten it wrong over the generations, and that you have
      suddenly arisen to spot the problem, is too absurd for words. There are
      times when it is proper to challenge conventional wisdom, but it really
      helps to have solid facts and arguments on your side, or at least something
      plausible, and you lack all that.

      I'm not trying to be mean, Larry, but it would do you a world of good to
      spend a lot more time in studying Greek before you essay something like this
      again.

      As for your videos, the kindest thing I can say is that the I liked the
      music for the second one. The music for the first was a bit bland...

      N.E. Barry Hofstetter, semper melius Latine sonat...
      Classics and Bible Instructor, TAA
      http://www.theamericanacademy.net
      (2010 Salvatori Excellence in Education Winner)
      V-P of Academic Affairs, TNARS
      bhofstetter@...
      http://www.tnars.net

      http://my.opera.com/barryhofstetter/blog
      http://mysite.verizon.net/nebarry
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