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Re: [textualcriticism] P75 Jn 14.14 "ask me" or "ask"

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  • Claire Clivaz
    Dear all, Since a few week, I try to get an answer from the Vaticanus library, to know if there is any possibility to get digital images of P75. No answer at
    Message 1 of 3 , Nov 4, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear all,

      Since a few week, I try to get an answer from the Vaticanus library, to know if there is any possibility to get digital images of P75. No answer at that moment, even if I am in link with a colleague there...

      If somebody has a better result, I am interested to hear about it!

      Claire Clivaz (University of Lausanne, CH)


      Le 4 nov. 2010 à 21:48, Edward Andrews a écrit :

       

      Dear Group:

      Can anyone tell me if P75 has missing space where "me" would be.

      εαν τι αιτησητε [με εν τω ο]νοματι μου τουτο ποιησω

      εαν τι αιτησητε [..................]νοματι μου τουτο ποιησω

      Does P75 have the missing space that would equal the appropriate letters? I have been unable to locate an image of P75 online. If anyone has a copy, could please you enlarge that section, take a picture of it, and email it to me. Comfort has stated that the "me" is not there, but of course more than "me" is not there, and he further says that the space where it should be, is equal to the letters needed. Therefore, unlike Metzger, he counts it as a witness for "ask me."

      Truly,

      Edward Andrews
      edandrews@...
      740-630-9318
      Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
      Bible-Translation.Net Website




    • Edward Andrews
      Scott: Much thanks. While I do not have the actual manuscript, just this image, it seems that the required amount of letters that are missing, would fill that
      Message 2 of 3 , Nov 5, 2010
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        Scott:

        Much thanks. While I do not have the actual manuscript, just this image, it seems that the required amount of letters that are missing, would fill that gap. It seems, even if you left "me" με out, you would be short. From what you have below, there are twelve letters missing.

        Comforts The Text of the Earliest New Testament Manuscripts shows it like this:
        εν τω υιω 14 εαν τι αιτ[ησητ]ε [με εν τω ο]ν̣ομα
        τι μου τουτο ποιησ[ω] 15 [εαν] [αγαπατε] μ̣ε τας

        It would seem that he is suggesting the the epsilon in "you ask" αιτ[ησητ]ε is there. Is it possible that that little tip about a quarter of the way through the gap has enough of an epsilon to claim its presence? Or did it have it at one time?

        "As we studied these manuscripts and photographs, we always compared our work with that found in the editio princeps (noted with an asterisk * in the bibliography for each manuscript) and other published transcriptions. In the process of doing this work, we often trusted the judgment of the original editors with respect to their readings of broken letters along the margins of manuscripts inasmuch as manuscripts often break off along the edges in the process of handling them or mounting them. Thus, a manuscript in its present condition may not preserve the lettering the first editors saw. Our transcriptions, therefore, should reflect the most pristine condition of the text and not the condition of the text as it presently stands in storage. A photograph taken soon after the time of discovery usually provides documentation of the most pristine form. Often when this photograph is compared to a manuscript in its present “museum” form, it is manifest that certain fragments of the manuscript have been lost over time."

        Philip Wesley Comfort and David P. Barrett, The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts, A corrected, enlarged ed. of The complete text of the earliest New Testament manuscripts (Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House, 2001), 19.

        Sincerely,
         
        Edward Andrews
        edandrews@...
        740-630-9318
        Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
        Bible-Translation.Net Website




        From: Scott Freedlun <scottfreedlun@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 11:36:31 PM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] P75 Jn 14.14 "ask me" or "ask" [1 Attachment]

         

        You can download the images of p75 here:

        http://chrles.multiply.com/photos/album/53/Bible_Papyrus_p75

        However, "p075 Joh 12.47-14.26 III.jpg" seems to be mis-labelled,
        according to "nttranscripts.uni-muenster.de" it should be "P75: John
        14:8-26, f. 64r"

        This is what they have for 14:14:
        http://nttranscripts.uni-muenster.de/AnaServer?NTtranscripts+0+start.anv

        εν τω υιω 14 εαν τι αιτ[ησητε] [με] [εν] [τω] [ο]ν̣ομα
        τι μου τουτο ποιησ[ω] 15 [εαν] [αγαπατε] μ̣ε τας

        I attached an image. It seems to be missing more than just a few letters.

        Scott

        On 11/4/10, Edward Andrews <edandrews@...> wrote:
        > Dear Group:
        >
        > Can anyone tell me if P75 has missing space where "me" would be.
        >
        > εαν τι αιτησητε [με εν τω ο]νοματι μου τουτο ποιησω
        > εαν τι αιτησητε [..................]νοματι μου τουτο ποιησω
        >
        > Does P75 have the missing space that would equal the appropriate letters? I
        > have
        > been unable to locate an image of P75 online. If anyone has a copy, could
        > please
        > you enlarge that section, take a picture of it, and email it to me. Comfort
        > has
        > stated that the "me" is not there, but of course more than "me" is not
        > there,
        > and he further says that the space where it should be, is equal to the
        > letters
        > needed. Therefore, unlike Metzger, he counts it as a witness for "ask me."
        >
        > Truly,
        >
        > Edward Andrews
        > edandrews@...
        > 740-630-9318
        > Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
        > Bible-Translation.Net Website

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