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Re: the heavenly witnesses [NEW EVIDENCE]

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  • bucksburg
    Having read through several treatises on the subject written around the turn of the 19th century, it is apparent that European scholars of the 16th-18th
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 3, 2010
      Having read through several treatises on the subject written around the turn of the 19th century, it is apparent that European scholars of the 16th-18th centuries--whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox--felt some pressure to include interpolations in the Greek text of 1 John 5. I was about to write, "include the CJ,"  but as there was no standardized text of the CJ in any language before 1546, it is more accurate to speak of various interpolations into the standard Greek text of the passage. Luther, for example, resisted including the iterations of the CJ  found in Erasmus 3 and Erasmus 4/5 when they were published; but he nonetheless did interpolate his text of 1 John 5. I quote from Doug Kutilek :

      <As our first witness, we call a facsimile reprint of the final edition of Luther's Bible issued in his lifetime. The title page of Luther's final edition of his German Bible translation (1545) reads: Biblia: Das ist: Die gantze Heilige Schrifft / Deutsche / Auffs new zugericht [literally, "Bible: that is: the whole Holy Writing, German, newly revised." All spelling as in original]. On the reverse side of leaf number CCCLXXXIIII (that is, 384), we find the relevant section of I John chapter 5  (all spelling,capitalization and dividers as an original), 

      "Und der Geist ists/ der da zeuget/ das Geist warheit ist. 
      ("And the Spirit is he who testifies; the Spirit is truth.") 
      This is followed immediately, with no gap, break or mark of any kind by: 
      Denn drey sind die da zeugen auff Erden/ Der Geist und das Wasser und das Blut/ und die drey sind beisamen. 
      ("For three are those who testify on Earth: the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are together.")>

      So, Luther had somehow allowed  "auff Erden" (in terra) to slip into his text. This hints at a Latin origin, as in terra was often isolated from the rest of the CJ.

      I suspect that some of the former translations of the NT into German may have influenced this. Does anyone have evidence from the Augsburger or Tepl versions as to how 1 John 5:7-8 read in them?

      Daniel Buck

    • TeunisV
      Tischendorf, Novum Testamentum Triglottum Graece Latine Germanice. Ed. 2a. Lipsiae, 1865. Text 1Joh. 5,7: In the
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 4, 2010
        Tischendorf, Novum Testamentum Triglottum Graece Latine Germanice. Ed. 2a. Lipsiae, 1865.

        Text 1Joh. 5,7: <Denn Drey sind die da zeugen auf Erden,>

        In the (German) apparatus: <7.8. So Luther in allen Ausgg. von 1522-1545, nur dass bis 1534 auch die Worte: auf Erden, dem Urtexte gemaess fehlen.>

        Teunis van Lopik

        --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "bucksburg" <bucksburg@...> wrote:
        >
        > Having read through several treatises on the subject written around the
        > turn of the 19th century, it is apparent that European scholars of the
        > 16th-18th centuries--whether Catholic, Protestant, or Orthodox--felt
        > some pressure to include interpolations in the Greek text of 1 John 5. I
        > was about to write, "include the CJ," but as there was no standardized
        > text of the CJ in any language before 1546, it is more accurate to speak
        > of various interpolations into the standard Greek text of the passage.
        > Luther, for example, resisted including the iterations of the CJ found
        > in Erasmus 3 and Erasmus 4/5 when they were published; but he
        > nonetheless did interpolate his text of 1 John 5. I quote from Doug
        > Kutilek <http://www.kjvonly.org/aisi/2001/aisi_4_8_01.htm> :
        > <As our first witness, we call a facsimile reprint of the final edition
        > of Luther's Bible issued in his lifetime. The title page of Luther's
        > final edition of his German Bible translation (1545) reads: Biblia: Das
        > ist: Die gantze Heilige Schrifft / Deutsche / Auffs new zugericht
        > [literally, "Bible: that is: the whole Holy Writing, German, newly
        > revised." All spelling as in original]. On the reverse side of leaf
        > number CCCLXXXIIII (that is, 384), we find the relevant section of I
        > John chapter 5 (all spelling,capitalization and dividers as an
        > original),
        > "Und der Geist ists/ der da zeuget/ das Geist warheit ist. ("And the
        > Spirit is he who testifies; the Spirit is truth.") This is followed
        > immediately, with no gap, break or mark of any kind by: Denn drey sind
        > die da zeugen auff Erden/ Der Geist und das Wasser und das Blut/ und die
        > drey sind beisamen. ("For three are those who testify on Earth: the
        > Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are together.")>
        > So, Luther had somehow allowed "auff Erden" (in terra) to slip into his
        > text. This hints at a Latin origin, as in terra was often isolated from
        > the rest of the CJ.
        > I suspect that some of the former translations of the NT into German may
        > have influenced this. Does anyone have evidence from the Augsburger or
        > Tepl versions as to how 1 John 5:7-8 read in them?
        > Daniel Buck
        >
      • bucksburg
        http://www.archive.org/stream/dercodexteplens00goog#page/n404/mode/1up Answering my own question, Codex Teplensis reads something like (I m no expert in
        Message 3 of 4 , Nov 4, 2010
          http://www.archive.org/stream/dercodexteplens00goog#page/n404/mode/1up

          Answering my own question, Codex Teplensis reads something like (I'm no expert in deciphering Fraktur):

          . . . daz Krist ist de marheit. Wan dren sint di genent gezug im himel: der Vater, daz Wort, und der heilige Geist und dise drei sint ain und dry sint di deben gezeug uff der ereden: Geist Wasser und plut; und dese drey sin ann. Id wir enphachen . . .

          This answers exactly to a ms of the Vulgate owned and cited by Adam Clarke.

          Luther's version, on the other hand, answers, at least in v. 7-8, to the text of Bede's commentary:

          . . . quoniam Christus est veritas. Quoniam tres sunt qui testimonium dant in terra spiritus aqua et sanguis et tres unum sunt. Si testimonium . . .


          Isaac Newton wrote that 'in terra' was, as far as he could tell, added in a second hand to the lemma. There was, however, in the Harleian Collection of the British Museum, as described by Samuel Johnson in The Gentleman's Magazine (1814), a 13th-cent whole Bible Vulgate ms and an Old Latin ms of about the 9th century that both answer to this text. This text would result from taking the text as found in Codex Teplensis and deleting the first set of witnesses, on the assumption that ity was placed there by way of interpolation--without noticing that 'in terra' in the second set was also part of the original interpolation.

          Thus we would have to conclude that even Luther's Bible, at least in the final edition that he edited, contained an interpolation from the Latin into the translation of Erasmus' first edition of 1 John 5:7-8.


          Daniel Buck
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