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Re: [textualcriticism] "claims" of Milne and Skeat

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  • malcolm robertson
    Greetings all, In light of Peter s remarks (with which I concur) the question naturally arises (should arise) with which reading are these early collators
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 15, 2005
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      Greetings all,
       
      In light of Peter's remarks  (with which I concur)  the question naturally arises (should arise) with which reading are these early collators interacting?  It seems unclear to me that they are solely concerned with theos/os.
       
      Nevertheless, syntactically (intrinsic) the relative hos is to be preferred.  The external evidence concurs.
       
      Cordially in Christ,
       
      Malcolm 

      Peter Head <pmh15@...> wrote:

      At 07:21 PM 3/11/05, Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon.) wrote:


      >I just read this most interesting (but wholly undocumented) claim at:
      >
      >http://www.lamblion.net/Articles/ScottJones/false_citations.htm
      >
      >********
      >
      >
      >Does anyone know what the "technological evidence produced by Milne and
      >Skeat" is that this author is referring to?  Do they ever make the
      >claims attributed to them above?  If so, where?

      Milne & Skeat examined a few passages using an ultra-violet lamp (famously
      the end of John's gospel); and they did argue that both the A and B groups
      of correctors were part of the work of the scriptorium. BUT they didn't
      pronounce on this passage, they didn't discuss corrections of a doctrinal
      significance, so it is all a bit garbled I'm afraid.
      It is worth noting that notwithstanding all the rubbish and rhetoric the
      discussion actually confirms the accuracy of NA on Sinaiticus at 1 Tim
      3.16: original OS, corrector QEOS. [NB with QE interlinear above and before
      OS] [? was this correction later deleted??]


      Incidentally they are also wrong on Alexandrinus (although in principle I'd
      accept that early writers might preserve information which ought to be
      borne in mind).The reason so many early scholars were arguing about it was
      that the manuscript wasn't regarded as clear at this point. I'm not so sure
      that Wettstein should be taken as supporting the QS reading for
      Alexandrinus. Certainly Woide (1786) was undecided and printed it as
      undecided, not as a clear nomen sacrum; and there was no unanimity among
      readers of the manuscript in his day. In Woide's preface he refers
      sympathetically to the solution that the line in the OMICRON is a
      bleed-through from ESEBIAN on the other side, since the upper line of the
      NS is clearly not the normal A line for NS.
      My view: NA correct to say that for Alexandrinus original: OS, correction
      QS (nomen sacrum).

      Peter


      Peter M. Head, PhD
      Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
      Tyndale House
      36 Selwyn Gardens                                       Phone: (UK) 01223
      566607
      Cambridge, CB3 9BA                                      Fax: (UK) 01223 566608
      http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Head/Staff.htm








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    • mjriii2003
      Dear P.J., 1. W.F. Warren - a participant on this list - is at the following: http://www.nobts.edu/ wfwarren@aol.com 2. In addition Emory University in
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 15, 2005
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        Dear P.J.,

        1. W.F. Warren - a participant on this list - is at the following:

        http://www.nobts.edu/

        wfwarren@...

        2. In addition Emory University in Atlanta, GA is rather enclined so
        to speak. Religion and Technology Center at Emory University headed
        by James R. Adair.

        http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/TC.html

        http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/Ebind/docs/TC/

        http://alpha.reltech.org:8080/

        3. In Dallas, TX Daniel B. Wallace Executive Director,
        Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts

        csntm.org

        Cordially in Christ,

        Malcolm

        --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "P.J. Williams"
        <p.j.williams@a...> wrote:
        >
        > What institutions are there within the state of Alabama or its
        surrounding
        > states where there are faculty who specialise in textual criticism?
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > P.J. Williams
        >
        > ------------
        > Dr P.J. Williams
        > Lecturer in New Testament
        > School of Divinity, History and Philosophy
        > University of Aberdeen, AB24 3UB
        > p.j.williams@a...
        >
        > noli esse incredulus sed fidelis IOH. XX xxvii
      • Jan Krans
        ... In his NTG Wettstein actually describes how the solution referred to by Woide (and Peter) was found by him and an old friend of his (see his NTG, part I,
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 15, 2005
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          Peter Head wrote:

          > I'm not so sure that Wettstein should be taken as supporting the QS
          > reading for
          > Alexandrinus. Certainly Woide (1786) was undecided and printed it as
          > undecided, not as a clear nomen sacrum; and there was no unanimity among
          > readers of the manuscript in his day. In Woide's preface he refers
          > sympathetically to the solution that the line in the OMICRON is a
          > bleed-through from ESEBIAN on the other side, since the upper line of the
          > NS is clearly not the normal A line for NS.

          In his NTG Wettstein actually describes how the solution referred to by
          Woide (and Peter) was found by him and an 'old friend' of his (see his
          NTG, part I, Prolegomena, pp. 19-22, esp. p. 22; cf. NTG II ad 1 Tim
          3:16). A fascinating story and a good read. I can post it here or put it
          on my site if someone is interested.

          In conclusion: Wettstein's (real or imaginary) friend found the
          aforementioned solution; thus the theta in A is both real and imaginary.
          According to Wettstein, without any doubt, A* read(s) OS.

          BTW, Wettstein himself preferred the reading ὅ (hO) (see NTG II a.h.l.),
          following D*, the Vulgate etc., and also Erasmus - who suspected some kind
          of "orthodox corruption of scripture" here -, Grotius and Newton (nice
          company). Followed by more than five pages of apparatus in which he
          discusses the history of the reading θεός (QEOS). Again a fascinating
          story.

          Greetings,
          Jan Krans
          Vrije Universiteit, Amsterdam
        • Countach
          ... Unless those faded lines is a letter showing through from the other side as Tichendorf strongly claimed. I would have thought examination with a microscope
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 15, 2005
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            AndysDad wrote:

            > Therefore, any modern collator is going to assign these
            > codices to the column supporting the OS reading. And rightfully so,
            > were it not a matter of historical record that collators of past
            > centuries were still able to read these faded lines, and even
            > predicted that they would soon become altogether invisible.


            Unless those faded lines is a letter showing through from the other side
            as Tichendorf strongly claimed.

            I would have thought examination with a microscope or something might
            shed light on whether the type of scratches made by the original hand
            exist here.
          • WFWarren@aol.com
            We are not too far from Alabama here in New Orleans. Otherwise, I would think the best settings would be in North Carolina either with Bart Ehrman at UNC
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 15, 2005
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              We are not too far from Alabama here in New Orleans.  Otherwise, I would think the best settings would be in North Carolina either with Bart Ehrman at UNC Chapel Hill or at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary with Maurice Robinson.  While some other settings may be available, for NT studies these are perhaps the best options near Alabama. 

              paz,

              Bill Warren
              Center for New Testament Textual Studies, Director
              Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of NT and Greek
              New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
              WWarren@...

              In a message dated 3/15/05 12:21:57 PM, p.j.williams@... writes:




              What institutions are there within the state of Alabama or its surrounding
              states where there are faculty who specialise in textual criticism?

              Thanks,

              P.J. Williams

              ------------
              Dr P.J. Williams
              Lecturer in New Testament
              School of Divinity, History and Philosophy
              University of Aberdeen, AB24 3UB
              p.j.williams@...

              noli esse incredulus sed fidelis IOH. XX xxvii






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            • P.J. Williams
              Thanks to all those who replied re Alabama - roughly confirming my guesses. Still it s good to have confirmation from that side of the pond. I ll advise my
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 16, 2005
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                Thanks to all those who replied re Alabama - roughly confirming my guesses.
                Still it's good to have confirmation from that side of the pond. I'll
                advise my enquirer accordingly.

                Best wishes,

                P.J. Williams

                ------------
                Dr P.J. Williams
                Lecturer in New Testament
                School of Divinity, History and Philosophy
                University of Aberdeen, AB24 3UB
                p.j.williams@...

                noli esse incredulus sed fidelis IOH. XX xxvii
              • P.J. Williams
                Where is the cheapest place to buy the new Vaticanus facsimile? Does anyone know of possibilities below 4500 USD? Best wishes, Pete Williams ... Dr P.J.
                Message 7 of 20 , Jun 3, 2005
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                  Where is the cheapest place to buy the new Vaticanus facsimile? Does anyone
                  know of possibilities below 4500 USD?

                  Best wishes,

                  Pete Williams

                  ------------
                  Dr P.J. Williams
                  Lecturer in New Testament
                  School of Divinity, History and Philosophy
                  University of Aberdeen, AB24 3UB
                  p.j.williams@...

                  noli esse incredulus sed fidelis IOH. XX xxvii
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