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Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

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  • Harold P. Scanlin
    Edward, HOTTP is fully bilingual. Each entry includes the Hebrew lemma, a literal translation in both English and French, translations in four versions (RSV,
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
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      Edward,

      HOTTP is fully bilingual. Each entry includes the Hebrew lemma, a literal translation in both English and French, translations in four versions (RSV, NEB, Jerusalem-French, and Luther), factors [described in the Introduction] explaining the variant, a recommended English and French translated, with a rating, roughly comparable to UBS/GNT) reflecting the degree of certainty in the opinion of the committee. All of this is elaborated at great length in
      Barthélemy's
      volumes. The "factors", modified and revised and now called "characterizations," are also used in BHQ. The first published installment, Megilloth (2004), explains these characterizations.

      Another resource for identifying textual issues in relation to OT translation is the "Textkritiska Anmärkningar" (pp.1587-1675) in some editions of the Swedish Bible translation of 2000. By my rough count there are more than 3,700 textual notes for the OT, 300+ more for the Apocrypha, and NONE for the NT, relying on UBS/GNT3 instead! This translation relies heavily on the Albrektson "school" of OT textual criticism which is prepared to utilize emendation to a far greater extent than HOTTP.

      Before my retirement from UBS seven years ago I was the Consultant on Scholarly Editions and worked with the HOTTP and BHQ committees.

      Harold


      Harold P. Scanlin
      41 Waldheim Park
      Allentown, PA 18103
      harold.scanlin@...
      610-791-9146

      On 10/14/2010 8:25 AM, Edward Andrews wrote:
       
      Dear Harold:

      I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

      Truly,
       
      Edward Andrews
      edandrews@...
      740-630-9318
      Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
      Bible-Translation.Net Website




      From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM
      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

       

      Edward,

      The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
      relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

      I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

      Harold P. Scanlin
      41 Waldheim Park
      Allentown, PA 18103
      harold.scanlin@...
      610-791-9146

      On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
       
      Dear Christ:

      First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
       
      Edward Andrews
      edandrews@...
      740-630-9318
      Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
      Bible-Translation.Net Website




      From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
      To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

       
      Edward,

      The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

      There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

      I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

      ~Chris Bartch


      On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
       
      Dear Group:
       
      Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
      ... 
      Edward Andrews
      Liberty University



    • Edward Andrews
      Harold: I do appreciate the feedback. I am wondering why there has never been a project implemented by any of the big publishers (Tyndale, Zondervan, Baker,
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
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        Harold:

        I do appreciate the feedback. I am wondering why there has never been a project implemented by any of the big publishers (Tyndale, Zondervan, Baker, Holman, IVP) for a textual commentary. It seems that the Old Testament seems to get less press. Again, much thanks.
         
        Edward Andrews
        edandrews@...
        740-630-9318
        Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
        Bible-Translation.Net Website




        From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: Edward Andrews <edandrews@...>
        Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 8:51:24 AM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

         


        Edward,

        HOTTP is fully bilingual. Each entry includes the Hebrew lemma, a literal translation in both English and French, translations in four versions (RSV, NEB, Jerusalem-French, and Luther), factors [described in the Introduction] explaining the variant, a recommended English and French translated, with a rating, roughly comparable to UBS/GNT) reflecting the degree of certainty in the opinion of the committee. All of this is elaborated at great length in
        Barthélemy's
        volumes. The "factors", modified and revised and now called "characterizations," are also used in BHQ. The first published installment, Megilloth (2004), explains these characterizations.

        Another resource for identifying textual issues in relation to OT translation is the "Textkritiska Anmärkningar" (pp.1587-1675) in some editions of the Swedish Bible translation of 2000. By my rough count there are more than 3,700 textual notes for the OT, 300+ more for the Apocrypha, and NONE for the NT, relying on UBS/GNT3 instead! This translation relies heavily on the Albrektson "school" of OT textual criticism which is prepared to utilize emendation to a far greater extent than HOTTP.

        Before my retirement from UBS seven years ago I was the Consultant on Scholarly Editions and worked with the HOTTP and BHQ committees.

        Harold


        Harold P. Scanlin
        41 Waldheim Park
        Allentown, PA 18103
        harold.scanlin@...
        610-791-9146

        On 10/14/2010 8:25 AM, Edward Andrews wrote:
         
        Dear Harold:

        I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

        Truly,
         
        Edward Andrews
        edandrews@...
        740-630-9318
        Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
        Bible-Translation.Net Website




        From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

         

        Edward,

        The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
        relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

        I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

        Harold P. Scanlin
        41 Waldheim Park
        Allentown, PA 18103
        harold.scanlin@...
        610-791-9146

        On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
         
        Dear Christ:

        First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
         
        Edward Andrews
        edandrews@...
        740-630-9318
        Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
        Bible-Translation.Net Website




        From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
        To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

         
        Edward,

        The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

        There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

        I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

        ~Chris Bartch


        On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
         
        Dear Group:
         
        Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
        ... 
        Edward Andrews
        Liberty University



      • mydogregae01
        In one of my essays (PDF) I have scanned several sample pages of the HOTTP volumes. With a list of their critical criteria, also scanned. You can examine the
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
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          In one of my essays (PDF) I have scanned several sample pages of the HOTTP volumes. With a list of their critical criteria, also scanned.

          You can examine the text inside this essay:

          http://www.Biblical-data.org/TC_stuff/TC_genesis.pdf

          The volumes certainly illuminate many OT issues, they also miss many variants and issues. Still quite valuable.

          sincerely,
          Mr. Gary S. Dykes
          www.Biblical-data.org
        • C.N. Bartch
          Where was is that you found the HOTTP set for $30? I would love to pick up a copy of it at this price, but I don t see the individual volumes for about $40-50
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
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            Where was is that you found the HOTTP set for $30?  I would love to pick up a copy of it at this price, but I don't see the individual volumes for about $40-50 a piece.

            Thanks!
            ~Chris Bartch

            On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Edward Andrews <edandrews@...> wrote:
             

            Dear Harold:

            I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

            Truly,


            From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM

            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

             

            Edward,

            The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
            relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

            I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

            Harold P. Scanlin
            41 Waldheim Park
            Allentown, PA 18103
            harold.scanlin@...
            610-791-9146

            On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
             
            Dear Christ:

            First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
             
            Edward Andrews
            edandrews@...
            740-630-9318
            Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
            Bible-Translation.Net Website




            From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
            To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

             
            Edward,

            The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

            There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

            I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

            ~Chris Bartch


            On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
             
            Dear Group:
             
            Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
            ... 
            Edward Andrews
            Liberty University


          • Edward Andrews
            Chris: Amazon.com. I just happened to catch one book store that had four of the five volumes at $5.00 each. I have gone back and see no more at that price. I
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 16, 2010
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              Chris:

              Amazon.com. I just happened to catch one book store that had four of the five volumes at $5.00 each. I have gone back and see no more at that price. I think $18.00 is the lowest I see now. It usually does not work out so well for me like that. :-o) I hate when a book gets scarce, and someone wants $150.00 for a $20.00 book. I liken it to the people who were selling water for $50.00 a gallon after the hurricane in Florida about a decade ago.

              Truly,
               
              Edward Andrews
              edandrews@...
              740-630-9318
              Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
              Bible-Translation.Net Website




              From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
              To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 6:36:48 PM
              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

               

              Where was is that you found the HOTTP set for $30?  I would love to pick up a copy of it at this price, but I don't see the individual volumes for about $40-50 a piece.

              Thanks!
              ~Chris Bartch

              On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Edward Andrews <edandrews@...> wrote:
               

              Dear Harold:

              I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

              Truly,


              From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
              To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM

              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

               

              Edward,

              The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
              relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

              I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

              Harold P. Scanlin
              41 Waldheim Park
              Allentown, PA 18103
              harold.scanlin@...
              610-791-9146

              On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
               
              Dear Christ:

              First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
               
              Edward Andrews
              edandrews@...
              740-630-9318
              Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
              Bible-Translation.Net Website




              From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
              To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

               
              Edward,

              The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

              There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

              I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

              ~Chris Bartch


              On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
               
              Dear Group:
               
              Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
              ... 
              Edward Andrews
              Liberty University


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