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Old Testament Textual List

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  • Edward Andrews
    Dear Group: Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger s
    Message 1 of 17 , Oct 11, 2010
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      Dear Group:
       
      Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
       
      Also, as an aside, I am quite fond of Philip Comfort's work over the years. I am wondering why he does not get quoted as often. I know that many modern textual scholars have given up on the idea of getting back to the original.* I know this is Comfort's objective, is that what has kept him from being referenced as often.
       
      * By original, I mean the first signed published edition, after the corrections to the autograph and rough draft. Getting back to an autograph is highly unlikely, being that it was not copied and recopied. Comfort believes we can get back to the first published edition, the original.
       
      Edward Andrews
      Liberty University
    • edandrews1966
      Dear Group: Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like
      Message 2 of 17 , Oct 12, 2010
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        Dear Group:
         
        Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
         
        Also, as an aside, I am quite fond of Philip Comfort's work over the years. I am wondering why he does not get quoted as often. I know that many modern textual scholars have given up on the idea of getting back to the original.* I know this is Comfort's objective, is that what has kept him from being referenced as often.
         
        * By original, I mean the first signed published edition, after the corrections to the autograph and rough draft. Getting back to an autograph is highly unlikely, being that it was not copied and recopied. Comfort believes we can get back to the first published edition, the original.
         
        Edward Andrews
        Liberty University
      • C.N. Bartch
        Edward, The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov s Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C). Another
        Message 3 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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          Edward,

          The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

          There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

          I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

          ~Chris Bartch


          On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
           

          Dear Group:
           
          Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
          ... 
          Edward Andrews
          Liberty University
        • james_snapp_jr
          Greetings Edward, I don t think there is a handy list anywhere of all the major textual issues for the OT. One could sift through the BH apparatus and collect
          Message 4 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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            Greetings Edward,

            I don't think there is a handy list anywhere of all the major textual issues for the OT. One could sift through the BH apparatus and collect whatever makes a translatable difference. But two people doing that might get different lists, if they use two different standards of what constitites a "major" textual issue. Plus, there are major issues besides deciding among competing readings, such as questions about relationships between books, stages in the development of the LXX, debates about the quality of the Masoretic or Proto-Masoretic Text, differing text-forms, and so forth.

            You might want to download J. S. Porter's "Principles of Textual Criticism" book, and Marsh's "Lectures" from Google Books. These are old books that are obsolete in some important respects, but they may put you on the scent of the sort of thing you're looking for. More recently Emanuel Tov wrote "Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible," which should be in the Liberty Univ. library.

            EA: "I am wondering why he [Comfort] does not get quoted as often."

            Maybe because he skews the evidence and misrepresents theories as if they are facts.

            EA: "* By original, I mean the first signed published edition, after the corrections to the autograph and rough draft."

            Hmm. Such a meaning may have some problems. I don't think there's much chance that "signed" editions of the four Gospels ever existed, unless perhaps one supposes that the addition of a title was one of those things that happened at the very end of the production-stage. But if we decline to make such a supposition, must we then say that there is no autograph?? What if Jude, immediately satisfied with his letter, did not make any corrections because there were none to make? It seems rather questionable to insist that the autographs must have the authors' autographs.

            Yours in Christ,

            James Snapp, Jr.
          • Edward Andrews
            Dear Christ: First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a
            Message 5 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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              Dear Christ:

              First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
               
              Edward Andrews
              edandrews@...
              740-630-9318
              Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
              Bible-Translation.Net Website




              From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
              To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

               

              Edward,

              The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

              There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

              I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

              ~Chris Bartch


              On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
               

              Dear Group:
               
              Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
              ... 
              Edward Andrews
              Liberty University
            • A. Dirkzwager
              Dear Edward, A textual commentary of the Old Testament would be nice, but there will be a problem concerning the text to be reconstructed. If we are thinking
              Message 6 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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                Dear Edward,

                A textual commentary of the Old Testament would be nice, but there will be a problem concerning the text to be reconstructed. If we are thinking about the text of the New Testament (or Greek and Roman writers), we would like to find the text of the original manuscript of the authors. If not possible, we would try to get as near as possible to it.

                The aim of textual criticism of the Old Testament is depending of the opinion of the scholar working on it concerning the origin of the several books of the Old Testament. Tov (e.g.) does not believe that there ever existed an original text of many of the books of the Old Testament. In his opinion several different texts ultimately became one biblical book. He does not think we can (or should??) reconstruct an original text.
                Others believe that there existed an original text of the books of the Old Testament.

                It is clear that persons like Tov will write other textual commentaries than people of the second group.

                Arie

                A. Dirkzwager
                Hoeselt, Belgium


                Op 13-10-2010 19:23, Edward Andrews schreef:
                 
                Dear Christ:

                First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                 
                Edward Andrews
                edandrews@...
                740-630-9318
                Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                Bible-Translation.Net Website




              • Harold P. Scanlin
                Edward, The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to
                Message 7 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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                  Edward,

                  The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
                  relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

                  I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

                  Harold P. Scanlin
                  41 Waldheim Park
                  Allentown, PA 18103
                  harold.scanlin@...
                  610-791-9146

                  On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                   
                  Dear Christ:

                  First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                   
                  Edward Andrews
                  edandrews@...
                  740-630-9318
                  Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                  Bible-Translation.Net Website




                  From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
                  To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
                  Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                   
                  Edward,

                  The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

                  There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

                  I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

                  ~Chris Bartch


                  On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
                   
                  Dear Group:
                   
                  Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                  ... 
                  Edward Andrews
                  Liberty University

                • Edward Andrews
                  James: I want to thank you for the help. I believe Porter is too old. I was thinking that maybe a really good study Bible may have footnotes that could be gone
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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                    James:

                    I want to thank you for the help. I believe Porter is too old. I was thinking that maybe a really good study Bible may have footnotes that could be gone through to collect a list. I understand there are pitfalls in this as well. Really, I just wanted a working list.

                    I am not certain that I feel the same way about Comfort. But then again that may be my bias, as a lot of what he has to say, I believe to be the case, or hope to be the case anyway. Actually, I am not insisting that they have the authors autograph. I insist nothing as an absolute. And Jude, 2nd and 3rd John would be a possibility of completing on their own, without the need of a scribe, or even correction.

                    Again, I appreciate your time.
                     
                    Edward Andrews
                    edandrews@...
                    740-630-9318
                    Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                    Bible-Translation.Net Website




                    From: james_snapp_jr <voxverax@...>
                    To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:25:38 AM
                    Subject: [textualcriticism] OT Text Issues and Defining the Autographs

                     

                    Greetings Edward,

                    I don't think there is a handy list anywhere of all the major textual issues for the OT. One could sift through the BH apparatus and collect whatever makes a translatable difference. But two people doing that might get different lists, if they use two different standards of what constitites a "major" textual issue. Plus, there are major issues besides deciding among competing readings, such as questions about relationships between books, stages in the development of the LXX, debates about the quality of the Masoretic or Proto-Masoretic Text, differing text-forms, and so forth.

                    You might want to download J. S. Porter's "Principles of Textual Criticism" book, and Marsh's "Lectures" from Google Books. These are old books that are obsolete in some important respects, but they may put you on the scent of the sort of thing you're looking for. More recently Emanuel Tov wrote "Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible," which should be in the Liberty Univ. library.

                    EA: "I am wondering why he [Comfort] does not get quoted as often."

                    Maybe because he skews the evidence and misrepresents theories as if they are facts.

                    EA: "* By original, I mean the first signed published edition, after the corrections to the autograph and rough draft."

                    Hmm. Such a meaning may have some problems. I don't think there's much chance that "signed" editions of the four Gospels ever existed, unless perhaps one supposes that the addition of a title was one of those things that happened at the very end of the production-stage. But if we decline to make such a supposition, must we then say that there is no autograph?? What if Jude, immediately satisfied with his letter, did not make any corrections because there were none to make? It seems rather questionable to insist that the autographs must have the authors' autographs.

                    Yours in Christ,

                    James Snapp, Jr.

                  • Edward Andrews
                    Dear Arie: Yes, I see your point. It is my hope and my belief that we could get back to the texts that would have been used by Ezra and Nehemiah. If scholars
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 13, 2010
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                      Dear Arie:

                      Yes, I see your point. It is my hope and my belief that we could get back to the texts that would have been used by Ezra and Nehemiah. If scholars of a similar mindset like Harrison, Brotzman, Deist, and Wurthwein were at the task. Anyway, I was simply looking to see if a PDF list of the major issues has ever been compiled. It seems that here is the perfect opportunity for someone to go to task on a textual commentary of the Old Testament.

                      Truly,
                       
                      Edward Andrews
                      edandrews@...
                      740-630-9318
                      Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                      Bible-Translation.Net Website




                      From: A. Dirkzwager <dirkzwager@...>
                      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:03:25 PM
                      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                       

                      Dear Edward,

                      A textual commentary of the Old Testament would be nice, but there will be a problem concerning the text to be reconstructed. If we are thinking about the text of the New Testament (or Greek and Roman writers), we would like to find the text of the original manuscript of the authors. If not possible, we would try to get as near as possible to it.

                      The aim of textual criticism of the Old Testament is depending of the opinion of the scholar working on it concerning the origin of the several books of the Old Testament. Tov (e.g.) does not believe that there ever existed an original text of many of the books of the Old Testament. In his opinion several different texts ultimately became one biblical book. He does not think we can (or should??) reconstruct an original text.
                      Others believe that there existed an original text of the books of the Old Testament.

                      It is clear that persons like Tov will write other textual commentaries than people of the second group.

                      Arie

                      A. Dirkzwager
                      Hoeselt, Belgium


                      Op 13-10-2010 19:23, Edward Andrews schreef:

                       
                      Dear Christ:

                      First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                       
                      Edward Andrews
                      edandrews@...
                      740-630-9318
                      Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                      Bible-Translation.Net Website




                    • Edward Andrews
                      Dear Harold: I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 14, 2010
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                        Dear Harold:

                        I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

                        Truly,
                         
                        Edward Andrews
                        edandrews@...
                        740-630-9318
                        Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                        Bible-Translation.Net Website




                        From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
                        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM
                        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                         

                        Edward,

                        The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
                        relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

                        I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

                        Harold P. Scanlin
                        41 Waldheim Park
                        Allentown, PA 18103
                        harold.scanlin@...
                        610-791-9146

                        On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                         
                        Dear Christ:

                        First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                         
                        Edward Andrews
                        edandrews@...
                        740-630-9318
                        Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                        Bible-Translation.Net Website




                        From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
                        To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
                        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                         
                        Edward,

                        The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

                        There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

                        I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

                        ~Chris Bartch


                        On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
                         
                        Dear Group:
                         
                        Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                        ... 
                        Edward Andrews
                        Liberty University

                      • yennifmit
                        Dear Edward, This book by Ashley S. Crane has some important things to say about the dynamics of textual development in one part of the Hebrew Bible: Israel s
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 14, 2010
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                          Dear Edward,

                          This book by Ashley S. Crane has some important things to say about the dynamics of textual development in one part of the Hebrew Bible:

                          Israel's Restoration: A Textual-Comparative Exploration of Ezekiel 36-39 (Supplements to Vetus Testamentum; Brill, 2008).

                          Another important work from a methodological perspective is by James R. Adair Jr.:

                          An Inductive Method for Reconstructing the Biblical Text Illustrated by an Analysis of 1 Samuel 3. Journal of Northwest Semitic Languages Supplement Series. (Stellenbosch: Department of Ancient Studies, University of Stellenbosch, 2000).

                          Best,

                          Tim Finney

                          --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "edandrews1966" <edandrews@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Dear Group: Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the
                          > Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a
                          > work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                          > Also, as an aside, I am quite fond of Philip Comfort's work over the
                          > years. I am wondering why he does not get quoted as often. I know that
                          > many modern textual scholars have given up on the idea of getting back
                          > to the original.* I know this is Comfort's objective, is that what has
                          > kept him from being referenced as often. * By original, I mean the
                          > first signed published edition, after the corrections to the autograph
                          > and rough draft. Getting back to an autograph is highly unlikely, being
                          > that it was not copied and recopied. Comfort believes we can get back
                          > to the first published edition, the original. Edward Andrews Liberty
                          > University
                          >
                        • Edward Andrews
                          Tim: Much thanks on the recommendations. I looked up Ashley S. Crane on a Google search, and she is a bit too pricey for me ($120.00 - $145.00). I did buy
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
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                            Tim:

                            Much thanks on the recommendations. I looked up Ashley S. Crane on a Google search, and she is a bit too pricey for me ($120.00 - $145.00). I did buy

                            Preliminary and Interim Report on the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project (4 of 5 Vol.)

                             Again, I thank you, and after a little work in the above, I will offer some feedback on them.

                            Edward Andrews
                            edandrews@...
                            740-630-9318
                            Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                            Bible-Translation.Net Website




                            From: yennifmit <tfinney@...>
                            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thu, October 14, 2010 10:02:09 PM
                            Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Old Testament Textual List

                             

                            Dear Edward,

                            This book by Ashley S. Crane has some important things to say about the dynamics of textual development in one part of the Hebrew Bible:

                            Israel's Restoration: A Textual-Comparative Exploration of Ezekiel 36-39 (Supplements to Vetus Testamentum; Brill, 2008).

                            Another important work from a methodological perspective is by James R. Adair Jr.:

                            An Inductive Method for Reconstructing the Biblical Text Illustrated by an Analysis of 1 Samuel 3. Journal of Northwest Semitic Languages Supplement Series. (Stellenbosch: Department of Ancient Studies, University of Stellenbosch, 2000).

                            Best,

                            Tim Finney

                            --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "edandrews1966" <edandrews@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Dear Group: Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the
                            > Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a
                            > work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                            > Also, as an aside, I am quite fond of Philip Comfort's work over the
                            > years. I am wondering why he does not get quoted as often. I know that
                            > many modern textual scholars have given up on the idea of getting back
                            > to the original.* I know this is Comfort's objective, is that what has
                            > kept him from being referenced as often. * By original, I mean the
                            > first signed published edition, after the corrections to the autograph
                            > and rough draft. Getting back to an autograph is highly unlikely, being
                            > that it was not copied and recopied. Comfort believes we can get back
                            > to the first published edition, the original. Edward Andrews Liberty
                            > University
                            >

                          • Harold P. Scanlin
                            Edward, HOTTP is fully bilingual. Each entry includes the Hebrew lemma, a literal translation in both English and French, translations in four versions (RSV,
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
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                              Edward,

                              HOTTP is fully bilingual. Each entry includes the Hebrew lemma, a literal translation in both English and French, translations in four versions (RSV, NEB, Jerusalem-French, and Luther), factors [described in the Introduction] explaining the variant, a recommended English and French translated, with a rating, roughly comparable to UBS/GNT) reflecting the degree of certainty in the opinion of the committee. All of this is elaborated at great length in
                              Barthélemy's
                              volumes. The "factors", modified and revised and now called "characterizations," are also used in BHQ. The first published installment, Megilloth (2004), explains these characterizations.

                              Another resource for identifying textual issues in relation to OT translation is the "Textkritiska Anmärkningar" (pp.1587-1675) in some editions of the Swedish Bible translation of 2000. By my rough count there are more than 3,700 textual notes for the OT, 300+ more for the Apocrypha, and NONE for the NT, relying on UBS/GNT3 instead! This translation relies heavily on the Albrektson "school" of OT textual criticism which is prepared to utilize emendation to a far greater extent than HOTTP.

                              Before my retirement from UBS seven years ago I was the Consultant on Scholarly Editions and worked with the HOTTP and BHQ committees.

                              Harold


                              Harold P. Scanlin
                              41 Waldheim Park
                              Allentown, PA 18103
                              harold.scanlin@...
                              610-791-9146

                              On 10/14/2010 8:25 AM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                               
                              Dear Harold:

                              I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

                              Truly,
                               
                              Edward Andrews
                              edandrews@...
                              740-630-9318
                              Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                              Bible-Translation.Net Website




                              From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
                              To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM
                              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                               

                              Edward,

                              The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
                              relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

                              I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

                              Harold P. Scanlin
                              41 Waldheim Park
                              Allentown, PA 18103
                              harold.scanlin@...
                              610-791-9146

                              On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                               
                              Dear Christ:

                              First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                               
                              Edward Andrews
                              edandrews@...
                              740-630-9318
                              Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                              Bible-Translation.Net Website




                              From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
                              To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
                              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                               
                              Edward,

                              The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

                              There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

                              I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

                              ~Chris Bartch


                              On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
                               
                              Dear Group:
                               
                              Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                              ... 
                              Edward Andrews
                              Liberty University



                            • Edward Andrews
                              Harold: I do appreciate the feedback. I am wondering why there has never been a project implemented by any of the big publishers (Tyndale, Zondervan, Baker,
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Harold:

                                I do appreciate the feedback. I am wondering why there has never been a project implemented by any of the big publishers (Tyndale, Zondervan, Baker, Holman, IVP) for a textual commentary. It seems that the Old Testament seems to get less press. Again, much thanks.
                                 
                                Edward Andrews
                                edandrews@...
                                740-630-9318
                                Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                                Bible-Translation.Net Website




                                From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
                                To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: Edward Andrews <edandrews@...>
                                Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 8:51:24 AM
                                Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                 


                                Edward,

                                HOTTP is fully bilingual. Each entry includes the Hebrew lemma, a literal translation in both English and French, translations in four versions (RSV, NEB, Jerusalem-French, and Luther), factors [described in the Introduction] explaining the variant, a recommended English and French translated, with a rating, roughly comparable to UBS/GNT) reflecting the degree of certainty in the opinion of the committee. All of this is elaborated at great length in
                                Barthélemy's
                                volumes. The "factors", modified and revised and now called "characterizations," are also used in BHQ. The first published installment, Megilloth (2004), explains these characterizations.

                                Another resource for identifying textual issues in relation to OT translation is the "Textkritiska Anmärkningar" (pp.1587-1675) in some editions of the Swedish Bible translation of 2000. By my rough count there are more than 3,700 textual notes for the OT, 300+ more for the Apocrypha, and NONE for the NT, relying on UBS/GNT3 instead! This translation relies heavily on the Albrektson "school" of OT textual criticism which is prepared to utilize emendation to a far greater extent than HOTTP.

                                Before my retirement from UBS seven years ago I was the Consultant on Scholarly Editions and worked with the HOTTP and BHQ committees.

                                Harold


                                Harold P. Scanlin
                                41 Waldheim Park
                                Allentown, PA 18103
                                harold.scanlin@...
                                610-791-9146

                                On 10/14/2010 8:25 AM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                                 
                                Dear Harold:

                                I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

                                Truly,
                                 
                                Edward Andrews
                                edandrews@...
                                740-630-9318
                                Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                                Bible-Translation.Net Website




                                From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
                                To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM
                                Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                 

                                Edward,

                                The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
                                relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

                                I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

                                Harold P. Scanlin
                                41 Waldheim Park
                                Allentown, PA 18103
                                harold.scanlin@...
                                610-791-9146

                                On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                                 
                                Dear Christ:

                                First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                                 
                                Edward Andrews
                                edandrews@...
                                740-630-9318
                                Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                                Bible-Translation.Net Website




                                From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
                                To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
                                Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                 
                                Edward,

                                The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

                                There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

                                I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

                                ~Chris Bartch


                                On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Dear Group:
                                 
                                Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                                ... 
                                Edward Andrews
                                Liberty University



                              • mydogregae01
                                In one of my essays (PDF) I have scanned several sample pages of the HOTTP volumes. With a list of their critical criteria, also scanned. You can examine the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  In one of my essays (PDF) I have scanned several sample pages of the HOTTP volumes. With a list of their critical criteria, also scanned.

                                  You can examine the text inside this essay:

                                  http://www.Biblical-data.org/TC_stuff/TC_genesis.pdf

                                  The volumes certainly illuminate many OT issues, they also miss many variants and issues. Still quite valuable.

                                  sincerely,
                                  Mr. Gary S. Dykes
                                  www.Biblical-data.org
                                • C.N. Bartch
                                  Where was is that you found the HOTTP set for $30? I would love to pick up a copy of it at this price, but I don t see the individual volumes for about $40-50
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 15, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Where was is that you found the HOTTP set for $30?  I would love to pick up a copy of it at this price, but I don't see the individual volumes for about $40-50 a piece.

                                    Thanks!
                                    ~Chris Bartch

                                    On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Edward Andrews <edandrews@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    Dear Harold:

                                    I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

                                    Truly,


                                    From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
                                    To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM

                                    Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                     

                                    Edward,

                                    The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
                                    relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

                                    I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

                                    Harold P. Scanlin
                                    41 Waldheim Park
                                    Allentown, PA 18103
                                    harold.scanlin@...
                                    610-791-9146

                                    On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                                     
                                    Dear Christ:

                                    First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                                     
                                    Edward Andrews
                                    edandrews@...
                                    740-630-9318
                                    Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                                    Bible-Translation.Net Website




                                    From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
                                    To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                     
                                    Edward,

                                    The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

                                    There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

                                    I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

                                    ~Chris Bartch


                                    On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
                                     
                                    Dear Group:
                                     
                                    Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                                    ... 
                                    Edward Andrews
                                    Liberty University


                                  • Edward Andrews
                                    Chris: Amazon.com. I just happened to catch one book store that had four of the five volumes at $5.00 each. I have gone back and see no more at that price. I
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 16, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Chris:

                                      Amazon.com. I just happened to catch one book store that had four of the five volumes at $5.00 each. I have gone back and see no more at that price. I think $18.00 is the lowest I see now. It usually does not work out so well for me like that. :-o) I hate when a book gets scarce, and someone wants $150.00 for a $20.00 book. I liken it to the people who were selling water for $50.00 a gallon after the hurricane in Florida about a decade ago.

                                      Truly,
                                       
                                      Edward Andrews
                                      edandrews@...
                                      740-630-9318
                                      Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                                      Bible-Translation.Net Website




                                      From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
                                      To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 6:36:48 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                       

                                      Where was is that you found the HOTTP set for $30?  I would love to pick up a copy of it at this price, but I don't see the individual volumes for about $40-50 a piece.

                                      Thanks!
                                      ~Chris Bartch

                                      On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 5:25 AM, Edward Andrews <edandrews@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Dear Harold:

                                      I am believe I can get all five volumes for $30.00. I have emailed the store, and I am awaiting their response, as to whether it is all five volumes, like part of it says, or five volumes of No. 1, as part of the other checkout process says. It says English and French. Have you used the books? Is it French with English within it, or is it just both in English and French?

                                      Truly,


                                      From: Harold P. Scanlin <harold.scanlin@...>
                                      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 2:18:12 PM

                                      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                       

                                      Edward,

                                      The United Bible Societies (UBS) in cooperation with the German Bible Society (GBS) has been producing a number of works that generally correspond to what Metzger has done for the UBS/GNT4. The first major publication series is the Preliminary and Interim Reports of the Hebrew Old Testament Text Project [HOTTP] (5 volumes, UBS). These reports, as the name suggests, are concise summaries of the textual issues
                                      relevant to Bible translation discussed by the HOTTP committee, under the direction of Dominique Barthélemy, . Barthélemy published four of a projected five volumes of the committee's final report: Critique textuelle de l'Ancien Testament (V&R, 1982-2005). Due to Barthélemy's death it is likely that volume one will never be published. Two volumes by Jan de Waard (Isaiah and Jeremiah) based on the work of HOTTP have been published by Eisenbrauns. The new installments of Biblia Hebraica Quinta (GBS, 2004 -    ) include textual commentary that analyzes variants, including their potential significance of translators.

                                      I should also mention the work of Stephen Daley who completed his PhD under Emanuel Tov, "The Textual Basis of English Translations of the Hebrew Bible" (2007). A published edition is in preparation.

                                      Harold P. Scanlin
                                      41 Waldheim Park
                                      Allentown, PA 18103
                                      harold.scanlin@...
                                      610-791-9146

                                      On 10/13/2010 1:23 PM, Edward Andrews wrote:
                                       
                                      Dear Christ:

                                      First, much thanks in your suggestions. I have Brotzman, Tov and Wurthwein. I guess I was wondering if any of were aware of a project to do a textual commentary of the Old Testament, something like what we have in Metzger or Comfort. I will look into the others you suggested. Thanks again.
                                       
                                      Edward Andrews
                                      edandrews@...
                                      740-630-9318
                                      Yahoo Bible-Translation Group
                                      Bible-Translation.Net Website




                                      From: C.N. Bartch <cnbartch@...>
                                      To: textualcriticism <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wed, October 13, 2010 10:14:50 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Old Testament Textual List

                                       
                                      Edward,

                                      The best (IMHO) book on the subject is Emanuel Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible (http://books.google.com/books?id=egDUOjN1qI4C).  Another good broad overview work is Ernst Wurthwein's The Text of the Old Testament (http://books.google.com/books?id=FSNKSBObCYwC) which is on par with the Aland's work on the New Testament.  Those are the two I use most frequently.  Another oldie but goody is Bleddyn J. Roberts' Old Testament Text and Versions which you can find used from a number of sources.

                                      There are also much older works which are now public domain and can be found online.  One important on is Christian D. Ginsburg's Introduction to the Massoretico-Critical Edition of the Hebrew Bible (http://www.archive.org/details/introductionofma00ginsuoft).

                                      I hope that helps answer your question.  :)

                                      ~Chris Bartch


                                      On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:52 PM, edandrews1966 <edandrews@...> wrote:
                                       
                                      Dear Group:
                                       
                                      Is there a list of all the major textual issues for the Old Testament? I have had my eye out for a Old Testament version of a work like Metzger's or Comfort's new work. Is there one being planned?
                                      ... 
                                      Edward Andrews
                                      Liberty University


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