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Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah

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  • TeunisV
    Hieronymus commentary on Matth. 27.9 is qouted in Aland s Synopsis ad loc. and indicated with Evang. sec Hebraeos (?) . Huck-Greeven s Synopsis: cf. EN (?)
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 22, 2010
      Hieronymus'commentary on Matth. 27.9 is qouted in Aland's Synopsis ad loc. and indicated with "Evang. sec Hebraeos (?)". Huck-Greeven's Synopsis: "cf. EN (?)" = Ev. Nazaraeorum.
      See Zahn, Komm. Matth., 1922 (4th ed.), p. 708, note 74, for a brief interpretation of the apocryphon and a reference to the Geschichte des ntl. Kanons, 1888-92, II, 696. Zahn quotes Dillmann and Heider on Ethiopean apocryphal texts and Schuelte in Coptic texts.
      Do not forget to compare with Lohmayer's Komm. (Meyer-Sonderband), p. 378-379.
      Summa: the "original" text of the apovryphon is still lost?

      Teunis van Lopik
      Leidschendam, the Netherlands

      --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, James Miller <jamtata@...> wrote:
      >
      > See "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" as written about in the document found here: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/divinity/media/MOTP%20Edinburgh%2010_09.pdf . The author of this document does not seem to be aware of (at least does not mention) Jerome's mention of the Hebrew text he saw.
      >
      > James
      >
      > --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Wieland Willker <wie@...> wrote:
      >
      > > From: Wieland Willker <wie@...>
      > > Subject: [textualcriticism] Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah
      > > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 7:53 AM
      > > Matthew 27:9
      > > Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through the prophet
      > > Jeremiah, "And
      > > they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of the one
      > > on whom a price
      > > had been set, on whom some of the people of Israel had set
      > > a price,
      > >
      > >
      > > In Jerome (Comm. Mat) we read regarding this citation from
      > > Jeremiah:
      > > "Recently I read in a certain Hebrew book that a Hebrew
      > > from the Nazarene
      > > sect brought to me, the apocryphon of Jeremiah, in which I
      > > found this text
      > > written word for word."
      > > [Legi nuper, in quodam hebraico volumine quem Nazarenae
      > > sectae mihi Hebraeus
      > > obtulit, Hieremiae apocryphum, in quo haec ad verbum
      > > scripta repperi.]
      > >
      > >
      > > There are certain writings known as "Apocryphon of
      > > Jeremiah", but is this
      > > specific reference as cited in Mt 27:9 extant?
      > >
      > >
      > > Best wishes
      > >     Wieland
      > >     <><
      > > --------------------------
      > > Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
      > > mailto:wie@...
      > > http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
      > > Textcritical commentary:
      > > http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >     textualcriticism-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • James Miller
      I wrote a short note to James Davila about Jeremiah s Prophecy to Pashhur, which seems a likely candidate for the apocryphon to which Jerome refers. Davila is
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 22, 2010
        I wrote a short note to James Davila about Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur, which seems a likely candidate for the apocryphon to which Jerome refers. Davila is the author of the document to which I provided a link in my previous response. He had commented on his blog that this apocryphon was being translated into English, and I asked him what is the status of that project. Davila responded by saying the translation is due out in the first volume of what is apparently an upcoming publication called More Old Testament Pseudepigrapha Project (ETA early 2010).

        "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" is extant in Ethiopic, Coptic and Sahidic. Davila describes it saying it is "A brief work called Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur usually follows the Ethiopic version of the book of Jeremiah and is also known in Sahidic Coptic." He seems to classify this as a Christian apocryphon.

        Again it is not clear to me whether Pseudepigrapha scholars have connected Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur with the citation from Jerome that Wieland points to. If Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a Christian apocryphon.

        Perhaps a contribution to scholarship on the pseudepigrapha can be made here?

        James

        --- On Mon, 2/22/10, TeunisV <tvanlopik@...> wrote:

        > From: TeunisV <tvanlopik@...>
        > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah
        > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 12:27 PM
        > Hieronymus'commentary on Matth. 27.9
        > is qouted in Aland's Synopsis ad loc. and indicated with
        > "Evang. sec Hebraeos (?)". Huck-Greeven's Synopsis: "cf. EN
        > (?)" = Ev. Nazaraeorum.
        > See Zahn, Komm. Matth., 1922 (4th ed.), p. 708, note 74,
        > for a brief interpretation of the apocryphon and a reference
        > to the Geschichte des ntl. Kanons, 1888-92, II, 696. Zahn
        > quotes Dillmann and Heider on Ethiopean apocryphal texts and
        > Schuelte in Coptic texts.
        > Do not forget to compare with Lohmayer's Komm.
        > (Meyer-Sonderband), p. 378-379.
        > Summa: the "original" text of the apovryphon is still
        > lost?
        >
        > Teunis van Lopik
        > Leidschendam, the Netherlands
        >
        > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com,
        > James Miller <jamtata@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > See "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" as written about
        > in the document found here: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/divinity/media/MOTP%20Edinburgh%2010_09.pdf
        > . The author of this document does not seem to be aware of
        > (at least does not mention) Jerome's mention of the Hebrew
        > text he saw.
        > >
        > > James
        > >
        > > --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Wieland Willker <wie@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > > From: Wieland Willker <wie@...>
        > > > Subject: [textualcriticism] Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of
        > Jeremiah
        > > > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 7:53 AM
        > > > Matthew 27:9
        > > > Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through
        > the prophet
        > > > Jeremiah, "And
        > > > they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price
        > of the one
        > > > on whom a price
        > > > had been set, on whom some of the people of
        > Israel had set
        > > > a price,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > In Jerome (Comm. Mat) we read regarding this
        > citation from
        > > > Jeremiah:
        > > > "Recently I read in a certain Hebrew book that a
        > Hebrew
        > > > from the Nazarene
        > > > sect brought to me, the apocryphon of Jeremiah,
        > in which I
        > > > found this text
        > > > written word for word."
        > > > [Legi nuper, in quodam hebraico volumine quem
        > Nazarenae
        > > > sectae mihi Hebraeus
        > > > obtulit, Hieremiae apocryphum, in quo haec ad
        > verbum
        > > > scripta repperi.]
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > There are certain writings known as "Apocryphon
        > of
        > > > Jeremiah", but is this
        > > > specific reference as cited in Mt 27:9 extant?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Best wishes
        > > >     Wieland
        > > >     <><
        > > > --------------------------
        > > > Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
        > > > mailto:wie@...
        > > > http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
        > > > Textcritical commentary:
        > > > http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >     textualcriticism-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >     textualcriticism-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
      • schmuel
        Hi Folks, ... Jeremiah: Recently I read in a certain Hebrew book that a Hebrew from the Nazarene sect brought to me, the apocryphon of Jeremiah, in which I
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 22, 2010
          Hi Folks,

          Wieland Willker:
          > In Jerome (Comm. Mat) we read regarding this citation from  Jeremiah:  "Recently I read in a certain Hebrew book that a Hebrew  from the Nazarene sect brought to me, the apocryphon of Jeremiah, in which I  found this text written word for word."  [Legi nuper, in quodam hebraico volumine quem Nazarenae  sectae mihi Hebraeus > obtulit, Hieremiae apocryphum, in quo haec ad verbum scripta repperi.]  There are certain writings known as "Apocryphon of  Jeremiah", but is this specific reference as cited in Mt 27:9 extant?

          James Miller
          See "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" as written about in the document found here: http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/divinity/media/MOTP%20Edinburgh%2010_09.pdf . The author of this document does not seem to be aware of (at least does not mention) Jerome's mention of the Hebrew text he saw.

          THE MORE OLD TESTAMENT PSEUDEPIGRAPHA PROJECT - (2009)
          Professor James R. Davila
          A brief work called Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur usually follows the Ethiopic version of the book of Jeremiah and is also known in Sahidic Coptic.  In it the prophet predicts that the progeny of the hostile priest Pashhur of Jeremiah 20 will
          condemn a righteous healer (i.e., Christ) for thirty pieces of silver and shall reap eternal condemnation as a result. 

          Thank you James !
          This is an extremely important document, since Matthew 27:9 :

          Matthew 27:9
          Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
          And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued,
          whom they of the children of Israel did value;

          is a major verse in textual conceptual battles and theories. Many note that this verse is unusual in
          the verb "saying" rather than "written" or "scripture" making for a wider field of consistent interpretation.

          NOTE:
          My Pashhur section is at bottom, the next is more general review.

          e.g. Daniel Wallace uses the verse in an article to try to show that the Received Text has the same type of  difficulties as the TR  (comparing to Alexandrian difficulties like the swine marathon from Gerasa or Mark 1:2.) 

          Similarly Charles Augustus Briggs uses this verse to demonstrate supposed fallibility, error, in scripture, in his heresy trial.

          In the disputations with William Fulke and the rcc Stapleton the verse has a significant place, with one issue being the possible fallibility of the Reformation Bible text (even though the Vulgate agrees).  Also referenced by the Fulke editor, Charles Henry Hartshorne,  is an argument that the Jews attribute the last four chapters of Zechariah to Jeremiah, referenced from Allix and Mede. (This is referenced in other recent articles as well.) While William Kelly gives a rabbinical references for: "Jeremiah stood as a beginning and title to the later prophets". These are separate from the arguments that Zechariah wrote what was spoken by Jeremiah.  An iceberg-tip to the historical discussion.

          Professor Maurice Robinson excellently uses this verse as an example of how scribes were very slow to tamper even with difficult texts, to lectio-difficilior around, since so few manuscripts have other than Jeremy.  Dean John Burgon mentions this aspect as well. William Pickering says that over 98% of the Greek mss have Jeremiah.

          Ray Pritz wrote about the Jerome Commentary, although he apparently did not know about the Apocryphon.

          Nazarene Jewish Christianity
          Ray Pritz
          http://books.google.com/books?id=vh84AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA56
          ... May we conclude from this that the Nazarenes possessed an apocryphal Jeremiah? It should perhaps first be noted that there is effectively no supporting evidence for Jerome's statement so our acceptance or rejection will have to depend solely on our analysis of his own words.

          Note the reference to the Origen commentary.

          We have the full Jerome commentary translated, with commentary, courtesy of Thomas P. Scheck.

          Commentary on Matthew (2008)
          Thomas P. Scheck
          http://books.google.com/books?id=j0UmWBivNJgC&pg=PA310
          This testimony is not found in Jeremiah.
          1 Something similar is recorded in Zechariah, who is nearly the last of the twelve prophets. 2 Yet both the order and the wording are different, although the sense is not that discordant. Recently I read something in a certain little Hebrew book that a Hebrew from the Nazarene sect 3 brought to me. It was an apocryphon of Jeremiah in which I found this text written word for word. 4 Yet it still seems more likely to me that the testimony was taken from Zechariah by a common practice of the evangelists and apostles. In citation they bring out only the sense from the Old Testament. They tend to neglect the order of the words. 5

          1 Cf. Homily 11 on Ps 77 (78) in FOTC 48, 83.

          2 The citation is from Zec 11.121 3 combined with the idea of purchasing a field suggested by Jer 32.6-15. This is linked with Jeremiah's description of a potter in Jer 18.2-4; 19.1-2

          3. See above on Mt 12.13; !3.53-54; 22.23 n; 23.35-36.

          4. Although this sounds like an authentic autobiographical incident in Jerome's recent past, G. Bardy. " "Jérôme et ses maîtres hébreux," Revue Bénédictine 46 (1934): 161, thinks that Jerome has fabricated the story based on Origen's conjecture (In Matth. comm. series, 117) about the existence of this apocryphal text.  It seems possible that Jerome was inspired by Origen's reference to consult a "Hebrew from the Nazarene sect."

          5. Jerome gives this same solution to the present difficulty in Ep. 57.7 to Pammachius.

          The Matthew quote is also in the ACCS series.

          Matthew 14-28 (2002)
          Manlio Simonetti
          http://books.google.com/books?id=iVh9AIkZN2QC&pg=PA275

          Along with Chrysostom and Maximus of Turin, who do not comment on the apologetics.
          No reference to Origen or Augustine, however.

          Nor to Bede, who has a section, untranslated, here.

          BEDE IN MATTHAEI EVANGELIUM EXPOSITIO LIBER PRIMUS CAPUT PRIMUM
          http://www.kennydominican.joyeurs.com/LatinPatrology/BedeMatthew.htm
          CAPUT XXVII
          Tunc impletum est quod dictum est per Jeremiam ...

          Any translation would be appreciated :) .

          We get a discussion of the Augustine material here:

          Biblical authority: a critique of the Rogers/McKim proposal (1982)
          John D. Woodbridge, Kenneth S. Kantzer
          http://books.google.com/books?id=_FscP-otRIkC&pg=PA41
           In treating the problems surrounding Matthew's reference to Jeremiah rather than Zechariah in Matthew 27:9, he proposes several intricate solutions: he suggests that some interpreters may prefer to see the problem as emerging from a copyist mistake (HI, 7, 29), though he himself did not like this solution to this particular textual question; or, he notes that since the prophets spoke with one voice, for Matthew to cite Jeremiah would be the same as for him to cite Zechariah (and thus the "discrepancy" disappears, III, 7, 30). ... Or, he propounds the possibility that the Evangelist had some kind of mystical meaning in mind that clarified his reference to Jeremiah (III, 7,31).

          The full Latin Augustine text is given here along with a sympathetic view and a lot of corollary material
          (including a Mark 1:2 section).

          A treatise on the authorship of Ecclesiastes: to which is added a dissertation on
          That which was spoken through Jeremiah the Prophet, as quoted in Matthew 27. 9-10. (1880)
          David Johnston
          http://books.google.com/books?id=Y0YOAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA509

          And this is a fascinating work, needing digestion !

          The Jereme Pammachius quote is online :

          Jerome - To Pammachius on the Best Method of Translating.
          http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.v.LVII.html
          ....They may accuse the apostle of falsifying his version seeing that it agrees neither with the Hebrew nor with the translators of the Septuagint: and worse than this, they may say that he has mistaken the author’s name putting down Jeremiah when it should be Zechariah. Far be it from us to speak thus of a follower of Christ, who made it his care to formulate dogmas rather than to hunt for words and syllables.

          John Lightoot helps with the Augustine reference, through Beza. His section is fascinating, a little wordy for here, so I will only leave in the references to Beza, Augustine, Eusebius and Kimchi, omitting Jerome and his own conclusions.

          A Commentary on the New Testament from the Talmud and Hebraica  (c. 1660)
          Exercitations upon the Gospel of St. Matthew Chapter 27
          John Lightfoot
          http://philologos.org/__eb-jl/matt27.htm

          How much this place hath troubled interpreters, let the famous Beza, instead of many others, declare: "This knot hath hampered all the most ancient interpreters, in that the testimony here is taken out of Zechariah, and not from Jeremiah; so that it seem plainly to have been a failing of memory, as Augustine supposes in his third book, 'De consensu evagelistarum,' chapter the seventh; as also Eusebius in the twentieth book of demonstration.

          We will transcribe the following monument of antiquity out of the Talmudists  (snip) ..You have this tradition quoted by David Kimchi in his preface to Jeremiah. Whence it is very plain that Jeremiah of old had the first place among the prophets: and hereby he comes to be mentioned above all the rest, Matthew 16:14, because he stood first in the volume of the prophets, therefore he is first named....

          Matthew 16:14
          And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist:
          some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

          This next Philip Hughes paper, in the context of Matthew 27:9, references Whitaker, Erasmus and Calvin.
          And references the Augustine comment, although it is unclear if Matthew 27:9 is in the Augustine context.

          The Inspiration of Scripture in the English Reformers Illuminated by John Calvin
          Philip Edgcumbe Hughes
          Westminster Theological Journal 23/2 (May 1961), pp. 129-151.
          http://www.bible-researcher.com/hughes1.html
          Augustine gives to Jerome: ‘If any, even the smallest, lie be admitted in the scriptures, the whole authority of scripture is presently invalidated and destroyed’ [Ep. XXVIII, to Jerome]. That form which the prophets use so often, ‘Thus saith the Lord,’ is to be attributed also to the apostles and evangelists. For the Holy Spirit dictated to them whatever things they wrote.” (28. Op. cit., pp. 37f.

          Another paper online gives a lot of technical review.

          Managing “Over-Cites”: Learning from Evangelical Treatments of Faulty New Testament Citations of the Old Testament
          Wes Gristy
          http://bible.org/article/managing-%E2%80%9Cover-cites%E2%80%9D-learning-evangelical-treatments-faulty-new-testament-citations-old-tes

          While a fascinating paper, giving a lot of the proposed understandings, the lack of even referencing Jerome or Gill or the Apocryphon is a major missing component.  It is almost as if Gristy is looking to not have any simple and strong solution.

          And John Gill gives an excellent overview of the arguments and texts up to his day, overlapping a lot of what is above. Why so many modern scholars neglect Gill on issues like this and Hebraic references is a puzzle.

          John Gill
          http://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/gills-exposition-of-the-bible/matthew-27-9.html

          ====================================

          Apocryphon of Jeremiah - Pashhur

          Returning to Pashhur, yes, you have to consider the possibility that the work post-dates the NT and was influenced by the NT,
          however the Jerome commentary is a very strong counterpoint to that conception, since Jerome very specifically says "written word for word" !  Thus if the work existed, it would be expected to be ... "word for word" as Jerome specifically says.  This should not then be a surprise or a cause of rejection for being too "Christian". 

          Yes, someone could theorize creation of the document from between 40-50 AD to some time before Jerome, but this adds extra levels of difficulty to a late creation fabrication theory, getting accepted and around the Jerome scholarship filter.

          Raymond Brown, as usual excellent in the scholarly details, is dismissive, however I do not think he correlates the Jerome statement to the Apocryphon.  If someone has Death of the Messiah handy, perhaps you can check.

          Raymond Brown
          A pertinent Jeremiah apocryphon is known in Ethiopic, Coptic. and Arabic. Vaccari ("Versioni") reports on a 9th-cent.-AD Arabic codex of the prophets where in Jeremiah's speech to Pashhur (Jer 20) the text citcd by Matt is found but wiih clear Christian flavoring: The one who is priced heals sickness and forgives sins. Eternal perdition is invoked on those involved in the potter's
          field "and on their sons after them because innocent blood will be condemned. All this evidence stems from the Christian era, raising the likelihood that the Jeremiah texts have been influenced by Matt 27:9-10.  We have no evidence that such a Jeremiah writing was in circulation in Matt's time.

          Then Raymond Brown goes on to other material, such as:

          Quesnel ("Citations") argues that Matt is not citing Zech but but Lamentations 4: 1-2 (which mentions silver, pricing, the sons of Zion, and the potter), (Death of the Messiah, p. 651)

          Is there more analysis and discussion along this line ? 
          When was the Apocryphon discovered ?

          Despite being in three languages extant today it was apparently, surprisingly, unknown even to John Gill and the earlier Reformation writers who were very intense with early writings.

          Inquiring minds ... would like to know :) .

          Shalom,
          Steven Avery
          Queens, NY


        • Sindon
          RE: “If Jeremiah s Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 22, 2010
            

            RE: “If Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a Christian apocryphon” –

            The Nazarenes (Ναζαρωαιοι) were Jewish (and probably Gentile also) Christian followers of Christ.   Cf. Acts 24:5.  Another Jewish sect, the Nasoraeans (Νασαραιοι) date back to about the sixth century BCE.  Both have their root in the same Hebrew word,  נוזרים.  Jerome would more likely have had contact with a Jewish Christian, and the Jeremiah Apocryphon would be correctly classified as Christian.  Both Jewish (e.g., Genesis Apocryphon, DSS) and Christian examples of this genre exist.

            All best regards,

            Diana Fulbright

            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 02:37 PM
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah

             

            I wrote a short note to James Davila about Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur, which seems a likely candidate for the apocryphon to which Jerome refers. Davila is the author of the document to which I provided a link in my previous response. He had commented on his blog that this apocryphon was being translated into English, and I asked him what is the status of that project. Davila responded by saying the translation is due out in the first volume of what is apparently an upcoming publication called More Old Testament Pseudepigrapha Project (ETA early 2010).

            "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" is extant in Ethiopic, Coptic and Sahidic. Davila describes it saying it is "A brief work called Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur usually follows the Ethiopic version of the book of Jeremiah and is also known in Sahidic Coptic." He seems to classify this as a Christian apocryphon.

            Again it is not clear to me whether Pseudepigrapha scholars have connected Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur with the citation from Jerome that Wieland points to. If Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a Christian apocryphon.

            Perhaps a contribution to scholarship on the pseudepigrapha can be made here?

            James

            --- On Mon, 2/22/10, TeunisV <tvanlopik@yahoo. com> wrote:

            > From: TeunisV <tvanlopik@yahoo. com>
            > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah
            > To: textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com
            > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 12:27 PM
            > Hieronymus'commenta ry on Matth. 27.9
            > is qouted in Aland's Synopsis ad loc. and indicated with
            > "Evang. sec Hebraeos (?)". Huck-Greeven' s Synopsis: "cf. EN
            > (?)" = Ev. Nazaraeorum.
            > See Zahn, Komm. Matth., 1922 (4th ed.), p. 708, note 74,
            > for a brief interpretation of the apocryphon and a reference
            > to the Geschichte des ntl. Kanons, 1888-92, II, 696. Zahn
            > quotes Dillmann and Heider on Ethiopean apocryphal texts and
            > Schuelte in Coptic texts.
            > Do not forget to compare with Lohmayer's Komm.
            > (Meyer-Sonderband) , p. 378-379.
            > Summa: the "original" text of the apovryphon is still
            > lost?
            >
            > Teunis van Lopik
            > Leidschendam, the Netherlands
            >
            > --- In textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com,
            > James Miller <jamtata@... > wrote:
            > >
            > > See "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" as written about
            > in the document found here: http://www.st- andrews.ac. uk/divinity/ media/MOTP% 20Edinburgh% 2010_09.pdf
            > . The author of this document does not seem to be aware of
            > (at least does not mention) Jerome's mention of the Hebrew
            > text he saw.
            > >
            > > James
            > >
            > > --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Wieland Willker <wie@...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > > From: Wieland Willker <wie@...>
            > > > Subject: [textualcriticism] Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of
            > Jeremiah
            > > > To: textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com
            > > > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 7:53 AM
            > > > Matthew 27:9
            > > > Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through
            > the prophet
            > > > Jeremiah, "And
            > > > they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price
            > of the one
            > > > on whom a price
            > > > had been set, on whom some of the people of
            > Israel had set
            > > > a price,
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > In Jerome (Comm. Mat) we read regarding this
            > citation from
            > > > Jeremiah:
            > > > "Recently I read in a certain Hebrew book that a
            > Hebrew
            > > > from the Nazarene
            > > > sect brought to me, the apocryphon of Jeremiah,
            > in which I
            > > > found this text
            > > > written word for word."
            > > > [Legi nuper, in quodam hebraico volumine quem
            > Nazarenae
            > > > sectae mihi Hebraeus
            > > > obtulit, Hieremiae apocryphum, in quo haec ad
            > verbum
            > > > scripta repperi.]
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > There are certain writings known as "Apocryphon
            > of
            > > > Jeremiah", but is this
            > > > specific reference as cited in Mt 27:9 extant?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Best wishes
            > > >     Wieland
            > > >     <><
            > > > ------------ --------- -----
            > > > Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
            > > > mailto:wie@. ..
            > > > http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie
            > > > Textcritical commentary:
            > > > http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie/TCG/
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >     textualcriticism- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >     textualcriticism- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
            >
            >
            >

          • Sindon
            Sorry, I meant to write Ναζωραιοι. Anyway, from the reference to Matthew 27:9, it seems pretty clear that Jerome was referring to a Jewish Christian.
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 22, 2010
              
              Sorry, I meant to write Ναζωραιοι.  Anyway, from the reference to Matthew 27:9, it seems pretty clear that Jerome was referring to a Jewish Christian.
              Diana Fulbright
               
              ----- Original Message -----
              Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 02:37 PM
              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah

               

              I wrote a short note to James Davila about Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur, which seems a likely candidate for the apocryphon to which Jerome refers. Davila is the author of the document to which I provided a link in my previous response. He had commented on his blog that this apocryphon was being translated into English, and I asked him what is the status of that project. Davila responded by saying the translation is due out in the first volume of what is apparently an upcoming publication called More Old Testament Pseudepigrapha Project (ETA early 2010).

              "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" is extant in Ethiopic, Coptic and Sahidic. Davila describes it saying it is "A brief work called Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur usually follows the Ethiopic version of the book of Jeremiah and is also known in Sahidic Coptic." He seems to classify this as a Christian apocryphon.

              Again it is not clear to me whether Pseudepigrapha scholars have connected Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur with the citation from Jerome that Wieland points to. If Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a Christian apocryphon.

              Perhaps a contribution to scholarship on the pseudepigrapha can be made here?

              James

              --- On Mon, 2/22/10, TeunisV <tvanlopik@yahoo. com> wrote:

              > From: TeunisV <tvanlopik@yahoo. com>
              > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah
              > To: textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com
              > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 12:27 PM
              > Hieronymus'commenta ry on Matth. 27.9
              > is qouted in Aland's Synopsis ad loc. and indicated with
              > "Evang. sec Hebraeos (?)". Huck-Greeven' s Synopsis: "cf. EN
              > (?)" = Ev. Nazaraeorum.
              > See Zahn, Komm. Matth., 1922 (4th ed.), p. 708, note 74,
              > for a brief interpretation of the apocryphon and a reference
              > to the Geschichte des ntl. Kanons, 1888-92, II, 696. Zahn
              > quotes Dillmann and Heider on Ethiopean apocryphal texts and
              > Schuelte in Coptic texts.
              > Do not forget to compare with Lohmayer's Komm.
              > (Meyer-Sonderband) , p. 378-379.
              > Summa: the "original" text of the apovryphon is still
              > lost?
              >
              > Teunis van Lopik
              > Leidschendam, the Netherlands
              >
              > --- In textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com,
              > James Miller <jamtata@... > wrote:
              > >
              > > See "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" as written about
              > in the document found here: http://www.st- andrews.ac. uk/divinity/ media/MOTP% 20Edinburgh% 2010_09.pdf
              > . The author of this document does not seem to be aware of
              > (at least does not mention) Jerome's mention of the Hebrew
              > text he saw.
              > >
              > > James
              > >
              > > --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Wieland Willker <wie@...>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > > From: Wieland Willker <wie@...>
              > > > Subject: [textualcriticism] Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of
              > Jeremiah
              > > > To: textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com
              > > > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 7:53 AM
              > > > Matthew 27:9
              > > > Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through
              > the prophet
              > > > Jeremiah, "And
              > > > they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price
              > of the one
              > > > on whom a price
              > > > had been set, on whom some of the people of
              > Israel had set
              > > > a price,
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > In Jerome (Comm. Mat) we read regarding this
              > citation from
              > > > Jeremiah:
              > > > "Recently I read in a certain Hebrew book that a
              > Hebrew
              > > > from the Nazarene
              > > > sect brought to me, the apocryphon of Jeremiah,
              > in which I
              > > > found this text
              > > > written word for word."
              > > > [Legi nuper, in quodam hebraico volumine quem
              > Nazarenae
              > > > sectae mihi Hebraeus
              > > > obtulit, Hieremiae apocryphum, in quo haec ad
              > verbum
              > > > scripta repperi.]
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > There are certain writings known as "Apocryphon
              > of
              > > > Jeremiah", but is this
              > > > specific reference as cited in Mt 27:9 extant?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Best wishes
              > > >     Wieland
              > > >     <><
              > > > ------------ --------- -----
              > > > Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
              > > > mailto:wie@. ..
              > > > http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie
              > > > Textcritical commentary:
              > > > http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie/TCG/
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              > > >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >     textualcriticism- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ------
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >     textualcriticism- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
              >
              >
              >

            • schmuel
              Hi Folks, James Miller, Again it is not clear to me whether Pseudepigrapha scholars have connected Jeremiah s Prophecy to Pashhur with the citation from Jerome
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 22, 2010
                Hi  Folks,

                James Miller,
                Again it is not clear to me whether Pseudepigrapha scholars have connected Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur with the citation from Jerome that Wieland points to. If Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a Christian apocryphon.

                Steven Avery
                There is a too overly dismissive discussion in Raymond Browns Death of the Messiah.  I do not have his full article, but it seems that he does not properly relate the connection to the specific words of Jereome. Also the fact that this document is extant in three languages is only mentioned en passant.

                Jerome - Commentary on Matthew (2008)
                Thomas P. Scheck
                http://books.google.com/books?id=j0UmWBivNJgC&pg=PA310
                This testimony is not found in Jeremiah. Something similar is recorded in Zechariah, who is nearly the last of the twelve prophets. Yet both the order and the wording are different, although the sense is not that discordant. Recently I read something in a certain little Hebrew book that a Hebrew from the Nazarene sect
                brought to me. It was an apocryphon of Jeremiah in which I found this text written word for word. Yet it still seems more likely to me that the testimony was taken from Zechariah by a common practice of the evangelists and apostles. In citation they bring out only the sense from the Old Testament. They tend to neglect the order of the words.

                You have to consider the possibility that the work post-dates the NT and was influenced by the NT, however the Jerome commentary is a very strong counterpoint to that conception, since Jerome very specifically says "written word for word" !  Thus if the work existed, it would be expected to be ... "word for word" as Jerome specifically says.  This should not then be a surprise or a cause of rejection for being too "Christian". 

                Yes, someone could theorize creation of the document from between 40-50 AD to some time before Jerome, but this adds extra levels of difficulty to a late creation fabrication theory, getting accepted and around the Jerome scholarship filter.

                Raymond Brown, as usual excellent in the scholarly details, is dismissive, however I do not think he correlates the Jerome statement to the Apocryphon.  If someone has Death of the Messiah handy, perhaps you can check.

                Raymond Brown
                A pertinent Jeremiah apocryphon is known in Ethiopic, Coptic. and Arabic. Vaccari ("Versioni") reports on a 9th-cent.-AD Arabic codex of the prophets where in Jeremiah's speech to Pashhur (Jer 20) the text citcd by Matt is found but wiih clear Christian flavoring: The one who is priced heals sickness and forgives sins. Eternal perdition is invoked on those involved in the potter's
                field "and on their sons after them because innocent blood will be condemned. All this evidence stems from the Christian era, raising the likelihood that the Jeremiah texts have been influenced by Matt 27:9-10.  We have no evidence that such a Jeremiah writing was in circulation in Matt's time.

                Then Raymond Brown goes on to other material, such as:

                Quesnel ("Citations") argues that Matt is not citing Zech but but Lamentations 4: 1-2 (which mentions silver, pricing, the sons of Zion, and the potter), (Death of the Messiah, p. 651)

                Is there more analysis and discussion along this line ? 
                When was the Apocryphon discovered ?

                Despite being in three languages extant today it was apparently, surprisingly, unknown even to John Gill and the earlier Reformation writers who were very intense with early writings.

                Shalom,
                Steven Avery
              • James Miller
                ... There is a too overly dismissive discussion in Raymond Browns Death of the Messiah.  I do not have his full article, but it seems that he does not
                Message 7 of 16 , Feb 23, 2010
                  --- On Mon, 2/22/10, schmuel <schmuel@...> wrote:

                  There is a too overly dismissive discussion in Raymond Browns Death of
                  the Messiah.  I do not have his full article, but it seems that he
                  does not properly relate the connection to the specific words of Jereome.
                  Also the fact that this document is extant in three languages is only
                  mentioned en passant.

                  Jerome - Commentary on Matthew (2008)

                  Thomas P. Scheck

                  http://books.google.com/books?id=j0UmWBivNJgC&pg=PA310

                  This testimony is not found in Jeremiah. Something similar is
                  recorded in Zechariah, who is nearly the last of the twelve prophets. Yet
                  both the order and the wording are different, although the sense is not
                  that discordant. Recently I read something in a certain little Hebrew
                  book that a Hebrew from the Nazarene sect brought to me. It was an apocryphon of Jeremiah in which I found this text written word for word. Yet it still seems more likely to me that the testimony was taken from Zechariah by a common practice of the evangelists and apostles. In citation they bring out only the sense from the Old Testament. They tend to neglect the order of the words.

                  You have to consider the possibility that the work post-dates the NT and was influenced by the NT, however the Jerome commentary is a very strong counterpoint to that conception, since Jerome very specifically says "written word for word"!  Thus if the work existed, it would be expected to be ... "word for word" as Jerome specifically says.  This should
                  not then be a surprise or a cause of rejection for being too "Christian". 

                  James Miller: To me the decisive factor indicating a Jewish as opposed to a Christian origin for this work is the fact that Jerome saw the work in a Hebrew book. In other words, the work he saw was in Hebrew or perhaps Aramaic. A Hebrew/Aramaic original is often a key criterion for classifying a work as having a Jewish as opposed to a Christian origin.

                  James
                • Wieland Willker
                  Thanks to all who responded to the question! Steven, great stuff! The issue seems to be more complicated than at first thought. :-) Overall it seems improbable
                  Message 8 of 16 , Feb 23, 2010
                    Thanks to all who responded to the question!
                    Steven, great stuff!
                    The issue seems to be more complicated than at first thought. :-)

                    Overall it seems improbable that the text as it stands in Mt was once in
                    Zechariah. It is more probable that the text has an independent origin, in
                    which the author used Zec 11:12-13 and combined it with Jeremian elements,
                    perhaps from memory. Either the author was Matthew, or he took the text from
                    an unknown source and author, perhaps even by Jeremiah!

                    Here's the text of the apocryphon, mentioned by Jim Davila:
                    "A Prophecy of Jeremiah.
                    And Jeremiah spoke thus unto Pashur: But you all your clays fight against
                    the truth, with your fathers and your sons that shall come after you. And
                    they shall commit a sin more damnable than you: They shall sell him who has
                    no price, and shall hurt him who will heal pain, and shall condemn him who
                    will forgive sin, and shall take thirty pieces of silver, the price of him
                    that was valued, whom the children of Israel shall sell, and shall give that
                    money for (into) the potter's field. As the Lord commanded me, so I speak.
                    And therefore shall there come upon them judgment and destruction for ever,
                    and upon their sons after them, because in their judgment they have shed
                    innocent blood."
                    (cited from Montague Rhodes James "The Lost Apocrypha of the Old Testament",
                    1920, compare also: August Dillmann "Chrestomathia Aethiopica" 1866, p.
                    VIII-IX, who gives the Aethiopic and Latin translation)

                    You see that it contains the words as given in Mt.



                    Remaining questions:
                    1. Regarding the text of Zechariah: What does the reference in the Hebrew to
                    "the potter" mean? Why throw it "to the potter"? The LXX has "into the
                    treasury". How is this related? Note also that the words are similar
                    (ha'otsar, "treasury" and hayyotser, "potter").

                    2. Steven, you mentioned "an argument that the Jews attribute the last four
                    chapters of Zechariah to Jeremiah". Could you give a more detailed reference
                    to this? Is there any "modern" theory on this?

                    3. What is the possible date of the above cited apocryphon? What are the
                    dates of the manuscripts? Is there any study?



                    Best wishes
                    Wieland
                    <><
                    --------------------------
                    Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                    mailto:wie@...
                    http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                    Textcritical commentary:
                    http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/
                  • Jovial
                    It s נוצרים in Hebrew. נזר means set apart whereas נצר means branch . They are often confused. In Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic it is a
                    Message 9 of 16 , Feb 23, 2010
                      
                      It's "נוצרים" in Hebrew.  "נזר" means set apart whereas "נצר" means "branch".  They are often confused.
                       
                      In Hebrew, Aramaic and Arabic it is a Generic term for either Gentile or Jewish believers in the Gospel.  But in Europe the term came to take on a Jewish connotation by Jerome's day.
                       
                      I wish we still had a copy of the document Jerome was referring to.
                       
                       
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Sindon
                      Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 4:21 PM
                      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah

                       

                      

                      RE: “If Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a Christian apocryphon” –

                      The Nazarenes (Ναζαρωαιοι) were Jewish (and probably Gentile also) Christian followers of Christ.   Cf. Acts 24:5.  Another Jewish sect, the Nasoraeans (Νασαραιοι) date back to about the sixth century BCE.  Both have their root in the same Hebrew word,  נוזרים.  Jerome would more likely have had contact with a Jewish Christian, and the Jeremiah Apocryphon would be correctly classified as Christian.  Both Jewish (e.g., Genesis Apocryphon, DSS) and Christian examples of this genre exist.

                      All best regards,

                      Diana Fulbright

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Monday, February 22, 2010 02:37 PM
                      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah

                       

                      I wrote a short note to James Davila about Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur, which seems a likely candidate for the apocryphon to which Jerome refers. Davila is the author of the document to which I provided a link in my previous response. He had commented on his blog that this apocryphon was being translated into English, and I asked him what is the status of that project. Davila responded by saying the translation is due out in the first volume of what is apparently an upcoming publication called More Old Testament Pseudepigrapha Project (ETA early 2010).

                      "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" is extant in Ethiopic, Coptic and Sahidic. Davila describes it saying it is "A brief work called Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur usually follows the Ethiopic version of the book of Jeremiah and is also known in Sahidic Coptic." He seems to classify this as a Christian apocryphon.

                      Again it is not clear to me whether Pseudepigrapha scholars have connected Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur with the citation from Jerome that Wieland points to. If Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur is the work Jerome asserts he saw in a Hebrew manuscript in the 4th century then it seems wrong to classify it as a Christian apocryphon.

                      Perhaps a contribution to scholarship on the pseudepigrapha can be made here?

                      James

                      --- On Mon, 2/22/10, TeunisV <tvanlopik@yahoo. com> wrote:

                      > From: TeunisV <tvanlopik@yahoo. com>
                      > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of Jeremiah
                      > To: textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com
                      > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 12:27 PM
                      > Hieronymus'commenta ry on Matth. 27.9
                      > is qouted in Aland's Synopsis ad loc. and indicated with
                      > "Evang. sec Hebraeos (?)". Huck-Greeven' s Synopsis: "cf. EN
                      > (?)" = Ev. Nazaraeorum.
                      > See Zahn, Komm. Matth., 1922 (4th ed.), p. 708, note 74,
                      > for a brief interpretation of the apocryphon and a reference
                      > to the Geschichte des ntl. Kanons, 1888-92, II, 696. Zahn
                      > quotes Dillmann and Heider on Ethiopean apocryphal texts and
                      > Schuelte in Coptic texts.
                      > Do not forget to compare with Lohmayer's Komm.
                      > (Meyer-Sonderband) , p. 378-379.
                      > Summa: the "original" text of the apovryphon is still
                      > lost?
                      >
                      > Teunis van Lopik
                      > Leidschendam, the Netherlands
                      >
                      > --- In textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com,
                      > James Miller <jamtata@... > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > See "Jeremiah's Prophecy to Pashhur" as written about
                      > in the document found here: http://www.st- andrews.ac. uk/divinity/ media/MOTP% 20Edinburgh% 2010_09.pdf
                      > . The author of this document does not seem to be aware of
                      > (at least does not mention) Jerome's mention of the Hebrew
                      > text he saw.
                      > >
                      > > James
                      > >
                      > > --- On Mon, 2/22/10, Wieland Willker <wie@...>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > From: Wieland Willker <wie@...>
                      > > > Subject: [textualcriticism] Mt 27:9 Apocryphon of
                      > Jeremiah
                      > > > To: textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > > Date: Monday, February 22, 2010, 7:53 AM
                      > > > Matthew 27:9
                      > > > Then was fulfilled what had been spoken through
                      > the prophet
                      > > > Jeremiah, "And
                      > > > they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price
                      > of the one
                      > > > on whom a price
                      > > > had been set, on whom some of the people of
                      > Israel had set
                      > > > a price,
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > In Jerome (Comm. Mat) we read regarding this
                      > citation from
                      > > > Jeremiah:
                      > > > "Recently I read in a certain Hebrew book that a
                      > Hebrew
                      > > > from the Nazarene
                      > > > sect brought to me, the apocryphon of Jeremiah,
                      > in which I
                      > > > found this text
                      > > > written word for word."
                      > > > [Legi nuper, in quodam hebraico volumine quem
                      > Nazarenae
                      > > > sectae mihi Hebraeus
                      > > > obtulit, Hieremiae apocryphum, in quo haec ad
                      > verbum
                      > > > scripta repperi.]
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > There are certain writings known as "Apocryphon
                      > of
                      > > > Jeremiah", but is this
                      > > > specific reference as cited in Mt 27:9 extant?
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Best wishes
                      > > >     Wieland
                      > > >     <><
                      > > > ------------ --------- -----
                      > > > Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                      > > > mailto:wie@. ..
                      > > > http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie
                      > > > Textcritical commentary:
                      > > > http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie/TCG/
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      > > >
                      > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >     textualcriticism- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >     textualcriticism- fullfeatured@ yahoogroups. com
                      >
                      >
                      >

                    • schmuel
                      Hi Folks, Matthew 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that
                      Message 10 of 16 , Feb 24, 2010
                        Hi Folks,

                        Matthew 27:9
                        Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,
                        And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued,
                        whom they of the children of Israel did value;

                        Wieland
                        2. Steven, you mentioned "an argument that the Jews attribute the last four chapters of Zechariah to Jeremiah". Could you give a more detailed reference to this? Is there any "modern" theory on this?

                        And I may have to adjust this.

                        It looks like there are two Jewish/Hebraic arguments .. which may be combined :

                        1) Jeremiah == Prophets .. this is based largely on Talmud ..Bava Bathra and Lightfoot embraced this (too) strongly
                        One scholar wrote this as: "the Babylonian Talmud placed Jeremiah first in its grouping of the prophets" and thus the collection can go by the name (similar to Jesus referring to "Psalms"). David Christian Ginsburg mentions some mentions in this order. (Gristy gives reference)

                        2) spirit of Jeremiah was in Zechariah -- Sepher Hagilgulim (according to Surenhusius) per William Kelly

                        Now, for a fascinating overview of the weakness of most arguments (except two)

                        Commentary on the Gospel according to Matthew (1870)
                        James Morison
                        http://books.google.com/books?id=xb4CAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA623
                        http://www.archive.org/stream/practicalcomment00mori#page/570/mode/2up (1895)

                        Combined with the Wes Gristy article, which utilizes Morison.

                        In my reference above to "
                        last four chapters of Zechariah to Jeremiah" I probably refer back to the whole
                        group of Mede, Kidder and Allix arguments that are more higher criticism than Judaic. Generally they
                        refer to three, or six chapters, I am not checking back right now to find why I had "four".

                        Quartz Hill
                        http://www.theology.edu/biblesurvey/zecharia.htm
                         6. This leads us then, to the sixth and final possibility, which is the one that will be used in this outline of the Bible: Matthew is correct in attributing this to Jeremiah, and our understanding of the book of Zechariah needs some modification.  (continues)

                        Calvin's editor John King is not very sympathetic to all this, and gives us more backdrop

                        Calvin's Commentaries, Vol. 30: Zechariah, Malachai, tr. by John King, [1847-50], at sacred-texts.com
                        http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/calvin/cc30/cc30001.htm
                        Since the days of Calvin a dispute has arisen, originated by Mede, respecting this last portion. Owing especially to a quotation in Matt. 27:9, 10, where Jeremiah, and not Zechariah, is mentioned, many since the time of Mede, such as Hammond, Newcome, and several German divines, have adopted the notion, that these chapters have somehow been misplaced, and that they belong to the book of Jeremiah. This view has been strongly opposed by Blayney and others, who, together with Scott, Adam Clarke, and Henderson, consider that there is no sufficient ground for such a supposition, and who for various reasons think that there is a typographical mistake in Matthew (continues)

                        =========================================

                        None of these interests me much.

                        Leaving the following.

                        1) Apocryphon of Jeremiah, noted by Jerome (and noted properly by Gill)

                        Thus this thread is fascinating, relevant.

                        James Miller:
                        To me the decisive factor indicating a Jewish as opposed to a Christian origin for this work is the fact that Jerome saw the work in a Hebrew book. In other words, the work he saw was in Hebrew or perhaps Aramaic. A Hebrew/Aramaic original is often a key criterion for classifying a work as having a Jewish as opposed to a Christian origin.

                        Steven
                        An excellent point. It is the interplay of the Jerome notation of a Hebrew word "word for word" combined with the Apocryphon extant in three languages that makes a compelling evidence.  I felt the Jerome evidence itself was very strong (when I did not know of the Apocryphon) and John Gill gave it a major note even without knowing of an extant text.

                        John Gill
                        Jerom affirms, that in an Hebrew volume, being an apocryphal work of Jeremy, which was shown him by one of the Nazarene sect, he read these words verbatim: so that though they do not stand in the writings of Jeremy, which are canonical Scripture, yet in an apocryphal book of his, and which may as well be referred to, as the book of Maccabees, the traditions of the Jews, the prophecies of Enoch, and the writings of the Heathen poets.

                        Steven
                        Now, if the Apocryphon was really slavishly Christian (extreme examples, referring to Mary or triune baptism) that would be a counterpoint, yet so far three is no such indication.  Simply being a word-for-word prophetic notation in a Hebrew work in 400 AD extant that is matched in the Matthew reference is hard to accuse.  Occam would lean to a simple reference by Matthew over a complex forgery designed to fool Jerome ... or something.  (Although modern theorists are oft-enamored with forgery theories.)

                        My other major interest is any interpretation that emphasizes

                        spoken by Jeremy

                        over written or scripture.  The discussions along the line of "spirit of Jeremiah was in Zechariah" -- more importantly with the simple idea of the Holy Spirit informing us that Zechariah was recording what had been previously spoken by Jeremiah, are fully acceptable.  The usage of "spoken by" looks fully deliberate and unusual.

                        Yet the Apocryphon theory goes well with "spoken" as well, since "written" tends to imply scripture, and the Apocryphon is not scripture.

                        Shalom,
                        Steven Avery
                        Queens, NY




                      • Wieland Willker
                        Alfred Resch ( Agrapha ) considers the apocryphon independent of Mt: The independence [of this apocryphon] from the canonical Mt is shown not only by the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Feb 24, 2010
                          Alfred Resch ("Agrapha") considers the apocryphon
                          independent of Mt: "The independence [of this apocryphon]
                          from the canonical Mt is shown not only by the length of the
                          text, which is not limited to Mt 27:9, but also by the
                          absence of the words TOU TETIMHMENOU ON ETIMHSANTO, for
                          which the Sahidic text simply reads "tradent".
                          He also quotes Bengel: "glossam vetustissimam ex apocryphis
                          Jeremiae in Matthaeum illatam."

                          Well, Resch accepts many things. The manuscripts are all
                          late. Brown mentioned a 9th CE Arabic codex.


                          Interesting is further this:
                          The words "potter" and "treasury" in Hebrew look similar.
                          Perhaps "potter" in Zechariah is a transcriptional error and
                          the LXX has it right? Now note that in Mt the chief priests
                          decide not to put the money returned by Judas into "the
                          treasury" but expend it for "the potter's field". Curious,
                          isn't it?


                          What is still not fully clear to me, where the AGRON comes
                          from in the text of Mt? Is it enough to say it is Jeremian
                          imagery?


                          Best wishes
                              Wieland
                                 <><
                          ------------------------------------------------
                          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                          mailto:wie@...
                          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                          Textcritical Commentary:
                          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
                        • TeunisV
                          Already in 1553 Nicolaus Zegerus quoted the Hieronymus text on the Apocryphon of Jeremiah and mentioned it as a source of Matthew s gospel. So, there is a
                          Message 12 of 16 , Feb 25, 2010
                            Already in 1553 Nicolaus Zegerus quoted the Hieronymus' text on the Apocryphon of Jeremiah and mentioned it as a source of Matthew's gospel. So, there is a lot of literature to investigate on the subject before to make conclusions!

                            Yes, the textcritical issue on the Hebrew text (and LXX) of Zecharja in relation to Matth. 27.9 is curious.
                            Lohmeyer again, p. 379: < ... [masorete Text}. Den dort steht, dass das Geld in den Tempel geworfen wird, wie es hier Judas tut, und steht auch: "in den Schatz" wie hier eis ton korbanan. Die Lesart "in den Schatz" (osar) ist das K'tib, "zu den Toepfer" (joser) das Q're.>
                            About osar/josar is written by many: Pagninus, Vatablus, Maldonatus, Beza, Grotius, Meyer/Weiss, ... .
                            Interesting is Menochius words ad loc Zecharja: <... quae etiam pecuniae summa in templum projecta est, et conversa in pretium agri figuli.>
                            A conversion parallel to mutation of aleph in jot, Ketib/Qere?
                            Was the author of the gospel playing with the text in a similar way?

                            Teunis van Lopik

                            --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "Wieland Willker" <wie@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Alfred Resch ("Agrapha") considers the apocryphon
                            > independent of Mt: "The independence [of this apocryphon]
                            > from the canonical Mt is shown not only by the length of the
                            > text, which is not limited to Mt 27:9, but also by the
                            > absence of the words TOU TETIMHMENOU ON ETIMHSANTO, for
                            > which the Sahidic text simply reads "tradent".
                            > He also quotes Bengel: "glossam vetustissimam ex apocryphis
                            > Jeremiae in Matthaeum illatam."
                            >
                            > Well, Resch accepts many things. The manuscripts are all
                            > late. Brown mentioned a 9th CE Arabic codex.
                            >
                            >
                            > Interesting is further this:
                            > The words "potter" and "treasury" in Hebrew look similar.
                            > Perhaps "potter" in Zechariah is a transcriptional error and
                            > the LXX has it right? Now note that in Mt the chief priests
                            > decide not to put the money returned by Judas into "the
                            > treasury" but expend it for "the potter's field". Curious,
                            > isn't it?
                            >
                            >
                            > What is still not fully clear to me, where the AGRON comes
                            > from in the text of Mt? Is it enough to say it is Jeremian
                            > imagery?
                            >
                            >
                            > Best wishes
                            >     Wieland
                            >        <><
                            > ------------------------------------------------
                            > Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                            > mailto:wie@...
                            > http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                            > Textcritical Commentary:
                            > http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
                            >
                          • schmuel
                            Hi Folks, Teunis van Lopik Already in 1553 Nicolaus Zegerus quoted the Hieronymus text on the Apocryphon of Jeremiah and mentioned it as a source of Matthew s
                            Message 13 of 16 , Feb 25, 2010
                              Hi Folks,

                              Teunis van Lopik
                              Already in 1553 Nicolaus Zegerus quoted the Hieronymus'  text on the Apocryphon of Jeremiah and mentioned it as a source of Matthew's gospel. So, there is a lot of literature to investigate on the subject before to make conclusions!

                              Thanks.

                              Although this still does not tell us much about the discovery of the three manuscripts, it shows us the proper respect given the Jerome notation even without any external evidence. (And substantially predates my mention of John Gill.)

                              And Debora Shuger tells us this goes back to an auxiliary understanding from Erasmus and also mentions Clarius (1495-1555)  as well as Zegerus (died 1559),

                              The Renaissance Bible Scholarship, Sacrifice, and Subjectivity (1994)
                              After Allegory : New Testament Scholarship in the Renaissance
                              Debora Kuller Shuger
                              http://books.google.com/books?id=QdvV815wPQwC&pg=PA27
                              http://www.escholarship.org/editions/view?docId=ft796nb4h0&chunk.id=d0e750&toc.depth=1&toc.id=d0e750&brand=eschol

                              Renaissance biblical scholarship likewise sifts textual cruxes for evidence of rule-governed praxis. A particularly interesting sequence of notes considers the problem of miscitation. The beginning of Matthew 27:9  reads: "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet," a line that always presented difficulties since the ensuing passage does not appear in Jeremiah but instead closely resembles Zechariah 11:12–13. Earlier sixteenth-century exegetes like Erasmus and Sebastian Munster generally view the transposition as an early scribal error or as a mistake on Matthew's part. But Erasmus also offers an alternative explanation, based on Origen and Jerome, which found wide acceptance among subsequent Roman Catholic exegetes: the citation derives from a lost apocrypha of Jeremiah. Interestingly, Erasmus is far less uneasy than Jerome about the possibility that "an oracle explicating the mystery of the Passion" could have a noncanonical source (6:930); he elsewhere notes in passing that
                              clearly not a few books of the Old Testament have been lost, the titles of which still remain in the canonical books: the books of the Wars of the Lord, cited in Numbers 21, and the book of the just (librum Justorum ) cited in Joshua 10 and 2 Kings 1.... [Such books] must have had great authority, since canonical Scripture so often rests on that authority. But whether they belonged to the Hebrew canon I leave to others to discover. (6:132)
                              This explanation, repeated in the commentaries of Clarius and Zegerus ...
                              (p.27-28)

                              Debora Shugar then goes into the canon issues and into the Grotius understanding, which includes what was mentioned in an earlier post using the source:

                               Sepher Hagilgulim (according to Surenhusius) per William Kelly

                              With Grotius similarly saying:

                              "the Jews were accustomed to say that the spirit of Jeremiah was in Zechariah "

                              From the google cache we have much of the Jan Krans notation about Erasmus, which was clearly simplified by Debora Shuger to focus on a couple of points. However, possibly because of google cache limitations, so far we do not have the exact words of Erasmus about Jerome about the Apocryphon.

                              Beyond what is written: Erasmus and Beza as conjectural critics of the New Testament (2006)
                              Jan Krans
                              http://books.google.com/books?lr=&client=firefox-a&cd=1&id=zi6JAAAAMAAJ

                              A similar conjecture is known on Matt 27:9. In 1516, Erasmus only mentions Jerome's opinion, according to which the citation presented under Jeremiah's name is not from the biblical book of Jeremiah nor from an apocryphal writing by Jeremiah, but from
                              Zechariah, but taken up by the evangelist in such a way that it that it hardly corresponds to either the Hebrew text or the Septuagint. In 1519, , the annotation is considerably enlarged, mainly in order to circumvent criticism.  Erasmus adds Jerome's exact words, as a way of stressing against his critics that he was only transmitting some information. He now transmits four ways to solve the problem, the first two derived from Origen and the second two from Chrysostom:  to assume an error in the transmission of Matthew's text; Erasmus adds that... " ... Matthew's indication as guided and warranted by the Holy Spirit." Of
                              these four possibilities, an error of transmission is the most likely possibility, according to Erasmus, but he adds:
                              For the rest, even if there had been a lapse of memory in the name
                              only, I do not think it becoming that anyone be so irritable that for that reason the authority of  the entire Holy Scripturewould waver. 5 Erasmus even adds a fifth possibility, according to which the prophet Zechariah may have had a double name, just as the Zechariah mentioned in Matt 23:35.'° In 1535, finally, Erasmus adds Augustine's rather complicated ideas, which hold that Matthew's lapse of memory (in writing 'Jeremiah') was actually ....

                              (p. 156-157)

                              5 - In the annotation 'Aperiam in parabolis os meum' on Matt 13:35 (ASD VI-5, p. 226 ll. 838-847; from 1516 onwards). .

                              Paraphrase on Matthew (2008) 
                              http://books.google.com/books?id=JP4QAQAAIAAJ
                              Jerome Comm in Matt 4 (on Matt 27:9-10) pl 26 205B had stated quite bluntly that the citation was not from Jeremiah. Cf Albright-Mann Matthew (ab) 341. ... (p. 364)

                              Shalom,
                              Steven Avery
                              Queens, NY
                            • TeunisV
                              Yes, Erasmus and Clarius are also referring to the Nazarene codex as seen by Hieronymus. Zegerus is quoting the full text of Hieronymus. (For the three 16th
                              Message 14 of 16 , Feb 26, 2010
                                Yes, Erasmus and Clarius are also referring to the Nazarene codex as seen by Hieronymus. Zegerus is quoting the full text of Hieronymus. (For the three 16th century exegetes together see their commentaries ad loc. in the Critici Sacri, 1660 or later editions.)
                                Hieronymus note on the apocryphon must be in common memory in the 16th century, because in Thomas Aquino's (in M.A. and afterwards most popular) Catena Aurea Hieronymus it is quoted too.

                                Teunis van Lopik
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