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Chrysostom quote

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  • ron minton
    A friend emailed and asked about a quote he says is from John Chrysostom, but he says there are known variances of it. The quote is Hell is paved with
    Message 1 of 8 , Jul 30, 2009
      A friend emailed and asked about a quote he says is from John Chrysostom, but he says there are known variances of it.  The quote is "Hell is paved with priests' skulls."
      I am only interested in whether I can find if Chrysostom actually said this and if there is actually a text issue involved in the extant mss of him.  I have limited experience in this area and welcome any help or recommended sources.
      Thanks,
      Ron Minton

    • sarban
      ... From: ron minton To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:24 PM Subject: [textualcriticism] Chrysostom quote A friend emailed
      Message 2 of 8 , Jul 30, 2009
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 6:24 PM
        Subject: [textualcriticism] Chrysostom quote

         

        A friend emailed and asked about a quote he says is from John Chrysostom, but he says there are known variances of it.  The quote is "Hell is paved with priests' skulls."
        I am only interested in whether I can find if Chrysostom actually said this and if there is actually a text issue involved in the extant mss of him.  I have limited experience in this area and welcome any help or recommended sources.
        Thanks,
        Ron Minton

        Hi Ron
         
        The quote is attributed to Chrysostom by the Wesleys eg
        most if not all attributions to Chrysostom seem ultimately dependent on the Wesleys,
         
        I suspect the ultimate source is pseudo-Chrysostom but have been unable to confirm this.
         
        Andrew Criddle
         
         



        .

      • Steve Puluka
        ... I ve never heard that quote myself, but it does seem in character. You ll find a lot of fast and loose quotations like this floating around and they never
        Message 3 of 8 , Jul 30, 2009
          On Jul 30, 2009, at 1:24 PM, ron minton wrote:
          > A friend emailed and asked about a quote he says is from John
          > Chrysostom, but he says there are known variances of it. The quote
          > is "Hell is paved with priests' skulls."
          > I am only interested in whether I can find if Chrysostom actually
          > said this and if there is actually a text issue involved in the
          > extant mss of him. I have limited experience in this area and
          > welcome any help or recommended sources.
          > Thanks,
          > Ron Minton

          I've never heard that quote myself, but it does seem in character.
          You'll find a lot of fast and loose quotations like this floating
          around and they never seem to even have the basic attributions needed
          to check them out. I think you'll find that if it is a valid quote
          all the variations are people just tweaking the English for their own
          uses and not real text critical stuff.

          I think your best bet would be to back translate to Greek and run a
          search in the Thesaurus linguae graecae (TLG). The full resource is
          available at a lot of academic libraries. The subscription is not
          cheap.

          http://www.tlg.uci.edu/

          I also have a basic patristic bibliography posted you may be
          interested in. I'm actually putting together a one semester
          undergraduate introduction to patristics class right now.

          http://puluka.com/home/index.php?id=78

          Steve Puluka
          MA, Theology Duquesne University
          Cantor Holy Ghost Church
          Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
          Mckees Rocks, PA
          http://puluka.com
        • George F Somsel
          Just running a check on the English translation for individual words doesn t bring up anything that looks very close to that.  Of course, as Steve has noted,
          Message 4 of 8 , Jul 30, 2009
            Just running a check on the English translation for individual words doesn't bring up anything that looks very close to that.  Of course, as Steve has noted, some tweak the English to their own tastes so that doesn't prove that he never said anything of the sort.
             
            george
            gfsomsel


            … search for truth, hear truth,
            learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
            defend the truth till death.


            - Jan Hus
            _________



            From: Steve Puluka <steve@...>
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:18:54 PM
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Chrysostom quote

             

            On Jul 30, 2009, at 1:24 PM, ron minton wrote:
            > A friend emailed and asked about a quote he says is from John
            > Chrysostom, but he says there are known variances of it. The quote
            > is "Hell is paved with priests' skulls."
            > I am only interested in whether I can find if Chrysostom actually
            > said this and if there is actually a text issue involved in the
            > extant mss of him. I have limited experience in this area and
            > welcome any help or recommended sources.
            > Thanks,
            > Ron Minton

            I've never heard that quote myself, but it does seem in character.
            You'll find a lot of fast and loose quotations like this floating
            around and they never seem to even have the basic attributions needed
            to check them out. I think you'll find that if it is a valid quote
            all the variations are people just tweaking the English for their own
            uses and not real text critical stuff.

            I think your best bet would be to back translate to Greek and run a
            search in the Thesaurus linguae graecae (TLG). The full resource is
            available at a lot of academic libraries. The subscription is not
            cheap.

            http://www.tlg. uci.edu/

            I also have a basic patristic bibliography posted you may be
            interested in. I'm actually putting together a one semester
            undergraduate introduction to patristics class right now.

            http://puluka. com/home/ index.php? id=78

            Steve Puluka
            MA, Theology Duquesne University
            Cantor Holy Ghost Church
            Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
            Mckees Rocks, PA
            http://puluka. com

            .


          • goranson@duke.edu
            ... According to T.J. Buckton in Notes & Queries ser.1.V.117 (1852) p.92 it is probably...at second or third hand, and with rhetorical embellishments...an
            Message 5 of 8 , Jul 31, 2009
              Quoting ron minton <ronminton@...>:

              > A friend emailed and asked about a quote he says is from John Chrysostom,
              > but he says there are known variances of it. The quote is "Hell is paved
              > with priests' skulls."
              > I am only interested in whether I can find if Chrysostom actually said this
              > and if there is actually a text issue involved in the extant mss of him. I
              > have limited experience in this area and welcome any help or recommended
              > sources.
              > Thanks,
              > Ron Minton


              According to T.J. Buckton in Notes & Queries ser.1.V.117 (1852) p.92 it is
              "probably...at second or third hand, and with rhetorical embellishments...an
              expression of St. Chrysostom, in his third homily on the Acts of the
              Apostles:....'I know not if there be many in the priesthood who are
              saved, but I know that many more perish.'...."

              Stephem Goranson
              http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
            • Daniel
              ... Looking at the problem textually, the last two stages in the recension seem to be: -The road to hell is paved with the souls of priests- -The road to hell
              Message 6 of 8 , Jul 31, 2009
                --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, goranson@... wrote:
                > According to T.J. Buckton in Notes & Queries ser.1.V.117 (1852) p.92 it is "probably...at second or third hand, and with rhetorical embellishments...an expression of St. Chrysostom, in his third homily on the Acts of the Apostles:....'I know not if there be many in the priesthood who are saved, but I know that many more perish'."<

                Looking at the problem textually, the last two stages in the recension seem to be:

                -The road to hell is paved with the souls of priests-
                -The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests-

                Daniel Buck
              • andrewcriddle
                ... Both forms are found in early printed texts of the Wesley s works See http://tinyurl.com/kpmz7h Andrew Criddle
                Message 7 of 8 , Aug 3, 2009
                  --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <bucksburg@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Looking at the problem textually, the last two stages in the recension seem to be:
                  >
                  > -The road to hell is paved with the souls of priests-
                  > -The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests-
                  >
                  > Daniel Buck
                  >
                  Both forms are found in early printed texts of the Wesley's works
                  See http://tinyurl.com/kpmz7h

                  Andrew Criddle
                • andrewcriddle
                  ... The Works of John Wesley v. 26 p.237 (OUP 1982) has a footnote that the reading souls , ... is almost certainly a misreading of Wesley s tremulous
                  Message 8 of 8 , Aug 3, 2009
                    --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "andrewcriddle" <sarban@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "Daniel" <bucksburg@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Looking at the problem textually, the last two stages in the recension seem to be:
                    > >
                    > > -The road to hell is paved with the souls of priests-
                    > > -The road to hell is paved with the skulls of priests-
                    > >
                    > > Daniel Buck
                    > >
                    > Both forms are found in early printed texts of the Wesley's works
                    > See http://tinyurl.com/kpmz7h
                    >
                    > Andrew Criddle
                    >
                    The Works of John Wesley v. 26 p.237 (OUP 1982) has a footnote that the reading 'souls', '... is almost certainly a misreading of Wesley's tremulous writing of 'sculls'...'. The note goes on that various Victorian writers agree in referring this proverb to St. Chrysostom, '...but so far this has not been traced in his writings'.

                    Andrew Criddle
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