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Jos var?

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  • ron minton
    A friend sent a note saying that there was a textual variant/scribal error in Josephus. It involves the date of Herod the great. He says that after the 14th
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 7, 2009
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      A friend sent a note saying that there was a textual variant/scribal error in Josephus.  It involves the date of Herod the great.  He says that after the 14th or 16th centuries, the Josephus manuscripts indicated 4BC, but before then they indicated 1BC. 
      Now I know Josephus said the lunar eclipse was just before Herod died (Jos Ant xvii.6.4-#167) and that the Passover occurred just after Herod died (Jos Ant xvii.9.3-#213).
      However, I do not understand how a scribal error in Josephus mss could indicate a different year for Herod's death?
      Can someone help me understand this? or else point me to an article of a Josephus list where this might be discussed?


      --
      Grace be with you,
      Ron Minton - Ukraine

    • Daniel Buck
      If you can read French, the following may be of some help: http://www.dammarilys.com/selene/chapt/a3.html However, I looked it over carefully and didn t see
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 7, 2009
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        If you can read French, the following may be of some help:

        However, I looked it over carefully and didn't see any mention of variants in Josephus. The change in date appears due to following a different chain of assumptions about how to calculate intervening years.
         
        Daniel


        From: ron minton <ronminton@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, July 7, 2009 12:55:50 PM
        Subject: [textualcriticism] Jos var?

        A friend sent a note saying that there was a textual variant/scribal error in Josephus.  It involves the date of Herod the great.  He says that after the 14th or 16th centuries, the Josephus manuscripts indicated 4BC, but before then they indicated 1BC. 
        Now I know Josephus said the lunar eclipse was just before Herod died (Jos Ant xvii.6.4-#167) and that the Passover occurred just after Herod died (Jos Ant xvii.9.3-#213) .
        However, I do not understand how a scribal error in Josephus mss could indicate a different year for Herod's death?
        Can someone help me understand this? or else point me to an article of a Josephus list where this might be discussed?


        --
        Grace be with you,
        Ron Minton - Ukraine


      • David C. Hindley
        Ron, Your friend might be referring to: Beyer, David W. Josephus Rexamined: Unraveling the Twenty-Second Year of Tiberius, pp. 85-96. Chronos, Kairos,
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 11, 2009
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          Ron,

          Your friend might be referring to:

          Beyer, David W. "Josephus Rexamined: Unraveling the Twenty-Second Year of Tiberius," pp. 85-96. Chronos, Kairos, Christos II: Chronological, Nativity, and Religious Studies in Memory of Ray Summers. ed. E. Jerry Vardaman. Mercer University Press: 1998. ISBN 0-86554-582-0

          I understand that Finegan’s 1998 revision of _Handbook of Biblical Chronology_ now supports Beyer's 1 BC date.

          The argument seems to revolve around the issue of whether printer's errors were introduced in the 16th century.

          Per a summary I found online:

          In 1966, W.E. Filmer had suggested in an article in JTS that there was an error in the text of Josephus in Antiquities 18.106. Modern critical texts have Josephus saying that Herod Philip died in the twentieth year of Tiberius, after a reign of 37 years. Filmer thought that a figure had been dropped out, and the number should really read twenty-second year of Tiberius. He pointed to claims that an 18th century monk had supposedly seen old copies of Josephus which read 22nd year of Tiberius. The date he calculated for Herod's death was 1 BC.

          However, T.D. Barnes is said to have “decisively reaffirmed” the 4 BC date in a 1968 Journal article.

          David Beyer presented a peper to the SBL in 1995, "Josephus Reexamined: Unraveling the Twenty-Second Year of Tiberius," which details the results of his examination of 46 early editions of Josephus at the British Museum as well as his examination of the holdings at the Library of Congress.

          He found that an error was introduced into Josephus at the time of the first Greek printing in Basel in 1544. All previous manuscripts read 22, but the Basel printed edition read 20. This error was copied when the Latin edition was printed in 1548, and after that, virtually all editions read "20" rather than "22".

          The original "22nd year" reading yields a date of 36 AD for Philip’s death; if he reigned 37 years, that gives a date of 1 BC for Herod’s death.

          BUT … Beyer (and others) think it unlikely that Philip actually reigned all 37 years, in spite of the numismatic evidence.

          At this point in the article Beyer records an additional printing error. The early manuscripts read "32" instead of "37" for the length of Philip’s reign.

          You can read it all at:
          http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/24979/1/Christs-BirthYear

          The author, Marjorie Alley, is an evangelical Christian and well educated, so don't let the forum throw you off. I am not, by the way, endorsing this position by this post, just pointing you in the direction you need to go.

          Dave Hindley


          --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, ron minton <ronminton@...> wrote:
          >
          > A friend sent a note saying that there was a textual variant/scribal error
          > in Josephus. It involves the date of Herod the great. He says that after
          > the 14th or 16th centuries, the Josephus manuscripts indicated 4BC, but
          > before then they indicated 1BC.
          > Now I know Josephus said the lunar eclipse was just before Herod died (Jos
          > Ant xvii.6.4-#167) and that the Passover occurred just after Herod died (Jos
          > Ant xvii.9.3-#213).
          > However, I do not understand how a scribal error in Josephus mss could
          > indicate a different year for Herod's death?
          > Can someone help me understand this? or else point me to an article of a
          > Josephus list where this might be discussed?
          >
          >
          > --
          > Grace be with you,
          > Ron Minton - Ukraine
          >
        • brian boland
          The question raised by ron minton on 7 July about Josephus is discussed in Treatise on Bible Chronology by Adam Rutherford in Chapter 16. It is also
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 15, 2009
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            The question raised by ron minton on 7 July about Josephus is discussed in " Treatise on Bible Chronology" by Adam Rutherford in Chapter 16. It is also discussed   in Jack Finegan's "Handbook of Biblical Chronology"see paras 506,549 and 504,505 -Brianj brianjboland@...


            From: ron minton <ronminton@...>
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, 7 July, 2009 17:55:50
            Subject: [textualcriticism] Jos var?

            A friend sent a note saying that there was a textual variant/scribal error in Josephus.  It involves the date of Herod the great.  He says that after the 14th or 16th centuries, the Josephus manuscripts indicated 4BC, but before then they indicated 1BC. 
            Now I know Josephus said the lunar eclipse was just before Herod died (Jos Ant xvii.6.4-#167) and that the Passover occurred just after Herod died (Jos Ant xvii.9.3-#213) .
            However, I do not understand how a scribal error in Josephus mss could indicate a different year for Herod's death?
            Can someone help me understand this? or else point me to an article of a Josephus list where this might be discussed?


            --
            Grace be with you,
            Ron Minton - Ukraine


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