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[textualcriticism] Help: GNT MSS in Biblioteca Casanatense

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  • Tommy Wasserman
    Dear list, I am currently in Rome, but for understandable reasons did not bring my Kurzgefasste Liste. Now a librarian at the Biblioteca Casanatense just a few
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 2, 2009
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      Dear list,

      I am currently in Rome, but for understandable reasons did not bring my Kurzgefasste Liste. Now a librarian at the Biblioteca Casanatense just a few hundred meters from the SBL conference here (Pontificial Biblical Institute) has agreed to show us some MSS, but the problem is that I don't know what they are supposed to have. She mentioned MS 165, but could not find any other when she browsed the catalogue. Aren't there more? Can someone please check this up as soon as possible, and I would be very grateful (I need to tell the librarian so they can have the MSS ready for us to look at tomorrow).

      Read more about the SBL Int. Meeting on the ETC blog (evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com).

      Tommy Wasserman




      <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
        From: James Snapp, Jr. [voxverax@...]
      Sent: 2/7/2009 8:17:05 AM
      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Coptic Encomium Attributed to Chrysostom 


      Andrew,

      Thanks. Is there anything else in the text that indicates non-Chrysostomness? The "time" in "Before our time" might be intended to mean nothing more than a particular time when the text was preached.

      As you say, the Cyril could be Cyril of Jerusalem. Chrysostom could express respect for Theophilus out of respect for the office, and there's no reason to suppose that Innocent only began to write when he began his bishopric.

      Could the phrase "That is to say, Athanasius, and Theophilus, and Cyril, and Innocent,"" be a (slightly) later insertion?

      If this text is not the work of Chrysostom, by whom and where is it supposed to have been composed?

      Yours in Christ,

      James Snapp, Jr.

      >>> A.C.: The passage at the beginning
      <QUOTE>And moreover, our holy fathers, the God-bearing (i. e. inspired) Bishops who have lived before our time, that is to say Athanasius, and Theophilus, and Cyril, and Innocent, have declared many of thine exalted words, O John the Baptist, O thou than
      whom among those born of women, none hath arisen who
      is greater.</QUOTE>
      Seems to point to an author subsequent to John Chrysostom.

      This would be certain if the Cyril mentioned is Cyril of Alexandria, but it is possible though unlikely that Cyril of Jerusalem is meant. In any case it seems unlikely that Chrysostom would refer to Theophilus, his opponent, in such flattering terms, or refer to Innocent, (presumably of Rome appointed 401) as a Bishop who lived before his time.

      Andrew Criddle <<<

      _______________________________________________________________
      Eniro Supers�k - �r vad det heter

    • Jan Krans
      Tommy, Just take a look your own post at your weblog : Ulrich Schmid listed them in the comments. He actually wrote: Biblioteca Casanatense Ms 165 = GA 395 Ms
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 2, 2009
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        Tommy,
        Just take a look your own post at your weblog: Ulrich Schmid listed them in the comments. He actually wrote:
        Biblioteca Casanatense
        Ms 165 = GA 395
        Ms 715 = GA 853
        Ms 1298 = GA 1987
        Ms 1395 = GA 1840

        GA 395 (12 th c.) seems to be the most interesting, since it is a palimpsest. 395 to be sure is the "Obertext". What has been written underneath is unknown according to the Kurzgefasste Liste. There is a chance to uncover a new ms, though likely not biblical. But anyway, have a try Tommy!

        Jan Krans

        Tommy Wasserman schreef:

        Dear list,

        I am currently in Rome, but for understandable reasons did not bring my Kurzgefasste Liste. Now a librarian at the Biblioteca Casanatense just a few hundred meters from the SBL conference here (Pontificial Biblical Institute) has agreed to show us some MSS, but the problem is that I don't know what they are supposed to have. She mentioned MS 165, but could not find any other when she browsed the catalogue. Aren't there more? Can someone please check this up as soon as possible, and I would be very grateful (I need to tell the librarian so they can have the MSS ready for us to look at tomorrow).

        Read more about the SBL Int. Meeting on the ETC blog (evangelicaltextual criticism. blogspot. com).

        Tommy Wasserman




        <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande-- --->
          From: James Snapp, Jr. [voxverax@yahoo. com]
        Sent: 2/7/2009 8:17:05 AM
        To: textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com
        Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Coptic Encomium Attributed to Chrysostom 


        Andrew,

        Thanks. Is there anything else in the text that indicates non-Chrysostomness? The "time" in "Before our time" might be intended to mean nothing more than a particular time when the text was preached.

        As you say, the Cyril could be Cyril of Jerusalem. Chrysostom could express respect for Theophilus out of respect for the office, and there's no reason to suppose that Innocent only began to write when he began his bishopric.

        Could the phrase "That is to say, Athanasius, and Theophilus, and Cyril, and Innocent,"" be a (slightly) later insertion?

        If this text is not the work of Chrysostom, by whom and where is it supposed to have been composed?

        Yours in Christ,

        James Snapp, Jr.

        >>> A.C.: The passage at the beginning
        <QUOTE>And moreover, our holy fathers, the God-bearing (i. e. inspired) Bishops who have lived before our time, that is to say Athanasius, and Theophilus, and Cyril, and Innocent, have declared many of thine exalted words, O John the Baptist, O thou than
        whom among those born of women, none hath arisen who
        is greater.</QUOTE>
        Seems to point to an author subsequent to John Chrysostom.

        This would be certain if the Cyril mentioned is Cyril of Alexandria, but it is possible though unlikely that Cyril of Jerusalem is meant. In any case it seems unlikely that Chrysostom would refer to Theophilus, his opponent, in such flattering terms, or refer to Innocent, (presumably of Rome appointed 401) as a Bishop who lived before his time.

        Andrew Criddle <<<

        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ______
        Eniro Supersök - är vad det heter

      • David Robert Palmer
        Mss. at Biblioteca Casanatense, acc. to Kurzg. Lisste: 165 = 395 715 = 853 1298 = 1987 1395 = 1840
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 2, 2009
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          Mss. at Biblioteca Casanatense, acc. to Kurzg. Lisste:
           
          165 = 395
          715 = 853
          1298 = 1987
          1395 = 1840
           
           

        • Tommy Wasserman
          Thanks Robert and Jan, amazing that I already had the information on my own blog before I sent out the question, sorry for that. Apparently Ulrich saw it
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 2, 2009
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            Thanks Robert and Jan,

            amazing that I already had the information on my own blog before I sent out the question, sorry for that. Apparently Ulrich saw it coming.

            Tommy


            <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
              From: David Robert Palmer [watutman@...]
            Sent: 2/7/2009 6:27:43 PM
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Help: GNT MSS in Biblioteca Casanatense 


            Mss. at Biblioteca Casanatense, acc. to Kurzg. Lisste:
             
            165 = 395
            715 = 853
            1298 = 1987
            1395 = 1840
             
             

            _______________________________________________________________
            Eniro Supers�k - �r vad det heter

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