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RE: [textualcriticism] Reading of C in Luke 2:48

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  • Tommy Wasserman
    Thanks, Robert, Wieland and von Soden ! I do have access to an image of C in Jude, which was helpful for my own edition of Jude. I compared that portion with
    Message 1 of 7 , Dec 3, 2008
      Thanks, Robert, Wieland and "von Soden"!

      I do have access to an image of C in Jude, which was helpful for my own edition of Jude. I compared that portion with Tischendorf, Lyon, and important editions, but that image was really helpful.

      In this case, the most important thing is that everyone seems to agree that O PATHR is there, but the presence and position of OI SUGGENEIS seems ambiguous. I agree that it is best to trust Tischendorf/NA27.

      Tommy

      <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
      From: Wieland Willker [wie@...]
      Sent: 3/12/2008 10:09:55 AM
      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [textualcriticism] Reading of C in Luke 2:48


      I am not sure if an image can help, since 04 is a palimpsest.
      One of the very few who actually read the ms, was Tischendorf, so it might
      be best to follow him. He writes:

      "C* vel potius ut vdtr
      IDONTES OI SUGGENEIS KAI O PATHR SOU KAI EGW"
      This is also the reading given in NA.

      I am not sure if the IGNTP actually consulted the ms.

      The ms was checked again by W. Lyon, who wrote a dissertation on it (see
      Elliott's biblio), but I don't have that. An excerpt was published in NTS 5,
      p. 266ff.

      I recommend a digitization to Lyon's thesis, perhaps by the CSNTM, together
      with Tischendorf' s transcription.

      Best wishes
      Wieland
      <><
      ------------ --------- -----
      Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
      mailto:wie@uni-bremen. de
      http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie
      Textcritical commentary:
      http://www.uni- bremen.de/ ~wie/TCG/

    • Wieland Willker
      ... Dear Tommy et al., I ve posted some images of Tischendorf s 1843 edition of C and of the specific passage in question.
      Message 2 of 7 , Dec 3, 2008

        Forwarded for Timothy Arthur Brown:

        -----------------------------

        Dear Tommy et al.,

        I've posted some images of Tischendorf's 1843 edition of C and of the specific passage in question.

                 
        http://www.musar.com/C_1843_spine_label.jpg
                  http://www.musar.com/C_1843_Luc_2.42-3.6.jpg
                  http://www.musar.com/C_Luc_2.48_transcript.jpg
                  http://www.musar.com/C_Luc_2.48_notes.jpg

        Tischendorf's transcription and note concerning the two lines involved make it clear that the original reading is uncertain, the current reading (o pathr etc.) being written as a correction.  He suggests that the first hand could possibly have originally written kai oi suggeneis after sou, yet acknowledges that it is not apparent why the corrector would have rewritten o phr sou unless the original text read oi suggeneis kai o phr sou. He then adds that, unless he is mistaken, the beginning of the next line originally read kai egw but that it was changed it to read kagw as it is represented in the transcript.

        Best wishes to all,

        T. A. E. Brown
        Franconia, New Hampshire  USA



        Tommy Wasserman wrote:

        Looking at various apparatuses (NA27, IGNTP, Swanson and Tischendorf's 8th ed.), I am totally confused concerning the reading of C in Luke 2:48, where NA27 reads ο πατηρ σου καγω οδυνωμενοι εζητουμεν σε. All apparatuses seem to agree that ο πατηρ is there, but what is the exact reading? Does someone have access to a photo of C at this point and can check? That would be most welcome.

         

        Tommy Wasserman

          
      • Tommy Wasserman
        Thanks Timothy (via Wieland)! I would have loved to see the manuscript itself, but this also adds a piece. Tommy From:
        Message 3 of 7 , Dec 3, 2008
          Thanks Timothy (via Wieland)! I would have loved to see the manuscript itself, but this also adds a piece.
           
          Tommy
           
          <-----Ursprungligt Meddelande----->
          From: Wieland Willker [textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com]
          Sent: 4/12/2008 12:03:30 AM
          To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Reading of C in Luke 2:48

          Forwarded for Timothy Arthur Brown:

          ------------ --------- --------

          Dear Tommy et al.,

          I've posted some images of Tischendorf' s 1843 edition of C and of the specific passage in question.

                   
          http://www.musar. com/C_1843_ spine_label. jpg
                    http://www.musar. com/C_1843_ Luc_2.42- 3.6.jpg
                    http://www.musar. com/C_Luc_ 2.48_transcript. jpg
                    http://www.musar. com/C_Luc_ 2.48_notes. jpg

          Tischendorf' s transcription and note concerning the two lines involved make it clear that the original reading is uncertain, the current reading (o pathr etc.) being written as a correction.  He suggests that the first hand could possibly have originally written kai oi suggeneis after sou, yet acknowledges that it is not apparent why the corrector would have rewritten o phr sou unless the original text read oi suggeneis kai o phr sou. He then adds that, unless he is mistaken, the beginning of the next line originally read kai egw but that it was changed it to read kagw as it is represented in the transcript.

          Best wishes to all,

          T. A. E. Brown
          Franconia, New Hampshire  USA



          Tommy Wasserman wrote:

          Looking at various apparatuses (NA27, IGNTP, Swanson and Tischendorf' s 8th ed.), I am totally confused concerning the reading of C in Luke 2:48, where NA27 reads ο πατηρ σου καγω οδυνωμενοι εζητουμεν σε. All apparatuses seem to agree that ο πατηρ is there, but what is the exact reading? Does someone have access to a photo of C at this point and can check? That would be most welcome.

          Tommy Wasserman

            

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