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Apologetically Difficult Passages

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  • James Snapp, Jr.
    Eddie Mishoe: Sure; I can think of a few: (1) In the Alexandrian Text, Mt. 27:49 has a passage which states that Jesus was struck with a spear *before* His
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 6, 2008
      Eddie Mishoe:

      Sure; I can think of a few:

      (1) In the Alexandrian Text, Mt. 27:49 has a passage which states
      that Jesus was struck with a spear *before* His death rather than
      afterward. Problem: John 33-35 explicitly described the piercing as
      happening after Jesus died.

      (2) Mark 15:25 says, "Now it was the third hour, and they crucified
      him." The "third hour" would be 9:00 a.m. But John 19:14,
      describing a statement made by Pilate before he sentenced Jesus to
      death, says, "Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and
      about the sixth hour." The sixth hour would be 12 noon. Problem:
      Jesus can't be crucified at 9:00 a.m. if He is still on trial at 12
      noon. (Off the top of my head, I think Eusebius of Caesarea offered
      the idea that the Greek letters Gamma (representing "3rd") and Stau
      (representing "6th") were mistakenly interchanged by early copyists.
      That would help resolve the apparent discrepancy about the hour but
      not the one about the day.)

      (3) In the Alexandrian Text of Mark 6:22, the girl who dances is
      Herod's daughter.

      (4) In the Alexandrian Text of Acts 12:25, Barnabas and Saul return
      *to* ("EIS") Jerusalem, instead of returning from Jerusalem.

      (5) In the Byzantine Text of John 7:39, and in some other early
      witnesses, the text is capable of being translated (as in the NRSV)
      in such a way as to say that the Spirit did not yet exist.

      (6) In the Alexandrian Text of Mark 1:2, Mark apparently quotes from
      Malachi (combined with part of Isaiah 40) and attributes it to
      Isaiah. (Cf. Mt. 27:9-10.)

      (7) The location of the exorcism of the demoniac(s) in Mt. 8:28, Mk.
      5:1, and Luke 8:26 is disputed; some early witnesses read "Gerasa" in
      one passage or another, but that seems historically difficult,
      inasmuch as Gerasa was pretty far away from the Sea of Galilee.

      Yours in Christ,

      James Snapp, Jr.
    • Daniel
      ... crucified him. The third hour would be 9:00 a.m. But John 19:14, describing a statement made by Pilate before he sentenced Jesus to death, says, Now
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 6, 2008
        "James Snapp, Jr." wrote:

        >> (2) Mark 15:25 says, "Now it was the third hour, and they
        crucified him." The "third hour" would be 9:00 a.m. But John 19:14,
        describing a statement made by Pilate before he sentenced Jesus to
        death, says, "Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and
        about the sixth hour." The sixth hour would be 12 noon. Problem:
        Jesus can't be crucified at 9:00 a.m. if He is still on trial at 12
        noon. (Off the top of my head, I think Eusebius of Caesarea offered
        the idea that the Greek letters Gamma (representing "3rd") and Stau
        (representing "6th") were mistakenly interchanged by early copyists.
        That would help resolve the apparent discrepancy about the hour but
        not the one about the day.)<<

        I'd like to take up this discussion on another thread (it was Peter,
        Bishop of Alexandria, who claimed that the original mss, then on
        display in Ephesus, read '3rd'). I'm having a hard time finding
        online facsimilies--most of the links from Wieland's resource-list
        are broken. Can someone throw up a list of working links to the first
        five uncials at least?


        Another big one:
        In Matthew 27:9-10, a quote attributed to "Jeremias the Prophet" is
        actually found in Zechariah 11:12-13.

        Daniel Buck
      • Wieland Willker
        Please concentrate on the *textcritical issues* of these passages! Passages without variants are off-topic. Best wishes Wieland
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 6, 2008
          Please concentrate on the *textcritical issues* of these
          passages!

          Passages without variants are off-topic.


          Best wishes
          Wieland
          <><
          ------------------------------------------------
          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
          mailto:wie@...
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
          Textcritical Commentary:
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
        • Eddie Mishoe
          Daniel: Try www.csntm.org then goto Manuscripts. Dr. Williker: I occasionally do not word my questions properly but ALL my questions are intended to avoid
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 6, 2008
            Daniel:

            Try www.csntm.org then goto Manuscripts.

            Dr. Williker: I occasionally do not word my questions properly but ALL my questions are intended to avoid theological discussions and to address issues that relate to TC issues. For example, the Elhanan killing Goliath is a TC question by virtue of the fact that no existing ms clears up the contradiction, not one!!

            And to some extend a contradiction to me means there is no existing manuscript that has a reading that avoids the contradiction. So, my apologies to you and the members if my original question did not explicitly state that I did not want to get into theological disputes, but disputes that relate to extant readings. I've made this mistake a few times on B-Greek before I learned how to word my questions a little better. Every once and a while I write without the added precaution.

            Dr. Snapp, once again, thank you for your thoughtful answer. I always enjoy reading posts that make me dig deep into my resources.

            Eddie Mishoe
            Pastor - ret.

          • Daniel
            ... actually found in Zechariah 11:12-13.
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 28, 2008
              "Daniel" <bucksburg@...> wrote:
              >> In Matthew 27:9-10, a quote attributed to "Jeremias the Prophet" is
              actually found in Zechariah 11:12-13. <<

              I forgot to mention the several mss that don't have Ieremiou at this
              variant.

              omit [i.e, just 'the prophet']: F, 33, 157, pc, a, b, Sy-S, Sy-P, bo[ms]
              Zacariou 22, Sy-H[mg]
              Ihsaiou 21, l

              Interestingly, almost the same thing has happened here as at Mark 1:2,
              but with even more variation.

              Daniel Buck
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