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Revelation of Gabriel

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  • Wieland Willker
    What Joe Viel is asking about is known as the Revelation of Gabriel or Gabriel s Vision . There is currently much discussion, but the tendency is that this
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 9, 2008
      What Joe Viel is asking about is known as the "Revelation of
      Gabriel" or "Gabriel's Vision".

      There is currently much discussion, but the tendency is that
      this is not a messianic text.
      Also the genuineness has not been proven yet, AFAIK.

      Jack Kilmon wrote on Crosstalk:
      "This, like the DSS, is an Enochian milieu and 1 Enoch 20
      gives a list of 7 archangels (Sariel, Gabriel, Remiel,
      Uriel, Raphael, Raguel and Michael) and 1 Enoch 9 lists 4 (
      Michael, Sariel, Raphael and Gabriel) see lines 30, 31.
      This inscription is about the superiority of Gabriel who is
      the "Prince of Princes (found?) in the narrowest holes" of
      line 81.
      It is about Gabriel, not a Messiah."

      Have a look also here:
      http://www.bib-arch.org/news/dss-in-stone-news.asp



      Below is the translation by Ada Yardeni:
      (Semitic sounds in caps and\or italics)

      Column A
      (Lines 1-6 are unintelligible)
      7. [. ]the sons of Israel .[.].
      8. [.]. [.].
      9. [. ]the word of YHW[H .].[.]
      10. [.]. I\you asked .
      11. YHWH, you ask me. Thus said the Lord of Hosts:
      12. [.]. from my(?) house, Israel, and I will tell the
      greatness(es?) of Jerusalem.
      13. [Thus] said YHWH, the Lord of Israel: Behold, all the
      nations are
      14. . against(?)\to(?) Jerusalem and .,
      15. [o]ne, two, three, fourty(?) prophets(?) and the
      returners(?),
      16. [and] the Hasidin(?). My servant, David, asked from
      before Ephraim(?)
      17. [to?] put the sign(?) I ask from you. Because He said,
      (namely,)
      18. [Y]HWH of Hosts, the Lord of Israel: .
      19. sanctity(?)\sanctify(?) Israel! In three days you shall
      know, that(?)\for(?) He said,
      20. (namely,) YHWH the Lord of Hosts, the Lord of Israel:
      The evil broke (down)
      21. before justice. Ask me and I will tell you what 22this
      bad 21plant is,
      22. lwbnsd/r/k (=? [To me? in libation?]) you are standing,
      the messenger\angel. He
      23. . (= will ordain you?) to Torah(?). Blessed be the Glory
      of YHWH the Lord, from
      24. his seat. "In a little while", qyTuT (=a brawl?\ tiny?)
      it is, "and I will shake the
      25. . of? heaven and the earth". Here is the Glory of YHWH
      the Lord of
      26. Hosts, the Lord of Israel. These are the chariots,
      seven,
      27. [un]to(?) the gate(?) of Jerusalem, and the gates of
      Judah, and . for the
      sake of
      28. . His(?) angel, Michael, and to all the others(?)
      ask\asked
      29. .. Thus He said, YHWH the Lord of Hosts, the Lord of
      30. Israel: One, two, three, four, five, six,
      31. [se]ven, these(?) are(?) His(?) angel .. 'What is it',
      said the blossom(?)\diadem(?)
      32. .[.]. and (the?) . (= leader?/ruler?), the second,
      33. . Jerusalem.. three, in\of the greatness(es?) of
      34. [.].[.].
      35. [.]., who saw a man . working(?) and [.].
      36. that he . [.]. from(?) Jerusalem(?)
      37. . on(?) . the exile(?) of .,
      38. the exile(?) of ., Lord ., and I will see
      39. .[.] Jerusalem, He will say, YHWH of
      40. Hosts, .
      41. [.]. that will lift(?) .
      42. [.]. in all the
      43. [.].
      44. [.].

      Column B
      (Lines 45-50 are unintelligible)
      51. Your people(?)\with you(?) .[.]
      52. . the [me]ssengers(?)\[a]ngels(?)[ .].
      53. on\against His/My people. And .[.].
      54. [. ]three days(?). This is (that) which(?) .[. ]He(?)
      55. the Lord(?)\these(?)[ .].[.]
      56. see(?) .[.]
      57. closed(?). The blood of the slaughters(?)\sacrifices(?)
      of Jerusalem. For He said,
      YHWH of Hos[ts],
      58. the Lord of Israel: For He said, YHWH of Hosts, the Lord
      of
      59. Israel: .
      60. [.]. me(?) the spirit?\wind of(?) .
      61. .[.].
      62. in it(?) .[.].[.]
      63. .[.].[.]
      64. .[.]. loved(?)/. .[.]
      65. The three saints of the world\eternity from\of .[.]
      66. [.]. peace he? said, to\in you we trust(?) .
      67. Inform him of the blood of this chariot of them(?) .[.]
      68. Many lovers He has, YHWH of Hosts, the Lord of Israel .
      69. Thus He said, (namely,) YHWH of Hosts, the Lord of
      Israel .:
      70. Prophets have I sent to my people, three. And I say
      71. that I have seen .[.].
      72. the place for the sake of(?) David the servant of YHWH[
      .].[.]
      73. the heaven and the earth. Blessed be .[.]
      74. men(?). "Showing mercy unto thousands", . mercy [.].
      75. Three shepherds went out to?/of? Israel .[.].
      76. If there is a priest, if there are sons of saints .[.]
      77. Who am I(?), I (am?) Gabri'el the .(=angel?). [.]
      78. You(?) will save them, .[.].
      79. from before You, the three si[gn]s(?), three .[..]
      80. In three days ., I, Gabri'el .[?],
      81. the Prince of Princes, ., narrow holes(?) .[.].
      82. to/for . [.]. and the .
      83. to me(?), out of three - the small one, whom(?) I took,
      I, Gabri'el.
      84. YHWH of Hosts, the Lord of(?)[ Israel .].[..]
      85. Then you will stand .[.].
      86. .\
      87. in(?) . eternity(?)/. \
      \



      Best wishes
      Wieland
      <><
      ------------------------------------------------
      Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
      mailto:wie@...
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
      Textcritical Commentary:
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
    • Wieland Willker
      The media hype was generated by Israel Knohl from the Jerusalem University. He has an Haaretz article here:
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 9, 2008
        The media hype was generated by Israel Knohl from the
        Jerusalem University.

        He has an Haaretz article here:
        http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=850657

        and gives a more sensational reading of the lines in
        question.
        He writes:

        "Line 80 begins with the phrase "Leshloshet yamin" ("In
        three days"), followed by another word that the editors
        could not read. Then comes the phrase "Ani Gavriel" ("I,
        Gabriel"). I believe that this "illegible" word is actually
        legible. It is the word "hayeh" (live), and that Gabriel the
        Archangel is giving orders to someone: "Leshloshet yamin
        hayeh" ("In three days, you shall live"). In other words, in
        three days, you shall return to life (compare "bedamaiyikh
        ha'ee" - translated as "in thy blood live" - in Ezekiel
        16:6). The word "haye" (live) is written here with alef.
        Similar orthography appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls, for
        example in the Isaiah scroll, where the word "yakeh" (30:31)
        is written with an alef after the yod.
        This is followed by traces of two more words. The letters
        are not easy to make out, but the first word seems to begin
        with a gimmel and vav. The next word is not clear either.
        The letter lamed is quite legible, and the letter before it
        seems to be an ayin. I believe the sentence can be
        reconstructed as follows: "Leshloshet yamin hayeh, ani
        Gavriel, gozer alekha" ("In three days, live, I, Gabriel,
        command you"). The archangel is ordering someone to rise
        from the dead within three days. To whom is he speaking?"


        Best wishes
        Wieland
        <><
        ------------------------------------------------
        Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
        mailto:wie@...
        http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
        Textcritical Commentary:
        http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
      • Wieland Willker
        I have collected some relevant info on the Textual Criticism form here (with images): http://tinyurl.com/5zubjf Best wishes Wieland
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 9, 2008
          I have collected some relevant info on the Textual Criticism
          form here (with images):

          http://tinyurl.com/5zubjf


          Best wishes
          Wieland
          <><
          ------------------------------------------------
          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
          mailto:wie@...
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
          Textcritical Commentary:
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
        • Jack Kilmon
          ... From: Wieland Willker To: Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:28 AM Subject: [textualcriticism] Re:
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 9, 2008
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Wieland Willker" <wie@...>
            To: <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:28 AM
            Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Revelation of Gabriel


            > The media hype was generated by Israel Knohl from the
            > Jerusalem University.
            >
            > He has an Haaretz article here:
            > http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=850657
            >
            > and gives a more sensational reading of the lines in
            > question.
            > He writes:
            >
            > "Line 80 begins with the phrase "Leshloshet yamin" ("In
            > three days"), followed by another word that the editors
            > could not read. Then comes the phrase "Ani Gavriel" ("I,
            > Gabriel"). I believe that this "illegible" word is actually
            > legible. It is the word "hayeh" (live), and that Gabriel the
            > Archangel is giving orders to someone: "Leshloshet yamin
            > hayeh" ("In three days, you shall live"). In other words, in
            > three days, you shall return to life (compare "bedamaiyikh
            > ha'ee" - translated as "in thy blood live" - in Ezekiel
            > 16:6). The word "haye" (live) is written here with alef.
            > Similar orthography appears in the Dead Sea Scrolls, for
            > example in the Isaiah scroll, where the word "yakeh" (30:31)
            > is written with an alef after the yod.
            > This is followed by traces of two more words. The letters
            > are not easy to make out, but the first word seems to begin
            > with a gimmel and vav. The next word is not clear either.
            > The letter lamed is quite legible, and the letter before it
            > seems to be an ayin. I believe the sentence can be
            > reconstructed as follows: "Leshloshet yamin hayeh, ani
            > Gavriel, gozer alekha" ("In three days, live, I, Gabriel,
            > command you"). The archangel is ordering someone to rise
            > from the dead within three days. To whom is he speaking?"
            >
            >
            > Best wishes
            > Wieland
            > <><


            It is important to note that my interpretation is based solely on the Hebrew
            transliteration that depicts a lacuna after the het but Prof. Knohl can
            actually see the inscription and examine that lacuna under a glass...and he
            is one of the best. I am but an amateur who needs convincing this
            inscription refers to a messiah.

            Regards

            Jack
          • Tommy Wasserman
            Dear list, in Bob Waltz Encyclopedia of New Testament Textual Criticism I noted a principle of internal criticism formulated by H. von Soden, that the
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 9, 2008
              Dear list,

              in Bob Waltz' Encyclopedia of New Testament Textual Criticism I noted a
              principle of internal criticism formulated by H. von Soden, that "the
              reading which does not match Matthew is best"
              (http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/CanonsOfCrit.html).

              However, there is no reference. I suppose it is stated somewhere in von
              Soden's Die Schriften des Neuen Testaments in ihrer ältesten
              erreichbaren Textgestalt hergestellt auf Grund ihrer Textgeschichte,
              but where? I am grateful if anyone can tell me.

              Tommy Wasserman
              Örebro Theological Seminary
            • Wieland Willker
              ... p. 1424 http://rosetta.reltech.org/cgi-bin/Ebind2html/TC/vonSodenSNT v1?seq=1437 Best wishes Wieland
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 9, 2008
                > but where?

                p. 1424

                http://rosetta.reltech.org/cgi-bin/Ebind2html/TC/vonSodenSNT
                v1?seq=1437

                Best wishes
                Wieland
                <><
                ------------------------------------------------
                Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
                mailto:wie@...
                http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
                Textcritical Commentary:
                http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
              • George F Somsel
                I m not (at the moment) acquainted with that statement, but in _The History of Early Christian Literature:  The Writings of the New Testament_ he states, That
                Message 7 of 7 , Jul 9, 2008

                  I'm not (at the moment) acquainted with that statement, but in _The History of Early Christian Literature:  The Writings of the New Testament_ he states,

                   

                  That he [scil Mark] has incorporated so few of the discourses of our Lord

                  into his work is evidently due to the fact that he knew of the existence of

                  St. Matthew's composition.

                   

                   

                   

                  george
                  gfsomsel


                  … search for truth, hear truth,
                  learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
                  defend the truth till death.


                  - Jan Hus
                  _________


                  ----- Original Message ----
                  From: Tommy Wasserman <tomwas@...>
                  To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, July 9, 2008 1:53:39 PM
                  Subject: [textualcriticism] Reference in von Soden

                  Dear list,

                  in Bob Waltz' Encyclopedia of New Testament Textual Criticism I noted a
                  principle of internal criticism formulated by H. von Soden, that "the
                  reading which does not match Matthew is best"
                  (http://www.skypoint.com/members/waltzmn/CanonsOfCrit.html).

                  However, there is no reference. I suppose it is stated somewhere in von
                  Soden's Die Schriften des Neuen Testaments in ihrer ältesten
                  erreichbaren Textgestalt hergestellt auf Grund ihrer Textgeschichte,
                  but where? I am grateful if anyone can tell me.

                  Tommy Wasserman
                  Örebro Theological Seminary

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