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Standard text for collation of Greek OT texts?

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  • Bryan Cox
    What is the standard text used for collating Greek OT manuscripts? Is Rahlf s Septuaginta used? Similarly, how does one go about determining which flavor of
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
      What is the standard text used for collating Greek OT manuscripts? Is
      Rahlf's Septuaginta used?

      Similarly, how does one go about determining which "flavor" of Greek
      OT one has (i.e., Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion, etc.)?

      Thanks!
      Bryan Cox
      Plano, Tx
    • Kevin W. Woodruff
      Bryan: As far I know, the Gottingen Septuagint is Septuaginta. Vetus Testamentum Graecum Auctoritate Academiae Scientiarum Gottingensis editum, Göttingen,
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
        Bryan:
         
        As far I know, the Gottingen Septuagint is
         
        Septuaginta. Vetus Testamentum Graecum Auctoritate Academiae Scientiarum Gottingensis editum, Göttingen, 1931- , 20 vol.:
        Genesis (1974, J. W. Wevers)
        Exodus (1991, J. W. Wevers, adiuvante U. Quast)
        Leviticus (1986, J. W. Wevers, adiuvante U. Quast)
        Numbers [Numeri] (1982, J. W. Wevers, adiuvante U. Quast)
        Deuteronomy [Deuteronomium] (1977, J. W. Wevers, adiuvante U. Quast)
        1 Ezra [Esdrae Liber I] (1974, R. Hanhart)
        Ezra - Nehemiah [Esdrae Liber II] (1990, R. Hanhart)
        Esther (1966, R. Hanhart)
        Iudith [Iudith] (1979, R. Hanhart)
        Tobit (1983, R. Hanhart)
        1 Maccabees [Maccabaeorum Liber I] (1936, 19672 W. Kappler)
        2 Maccabees [Maccabaeorum Liber II] (1959, 19762, W. Kappler, R. Hanhart)
        3 Maccabees [Maccabaeorum Liber III] (1960, 19802, R. Hanhart)
        Psalms and Odes [Psalmi cum Odis] (1931, 19793, A. Rahlfs)
        Job [Iob] (1982, J. Ziegler)
        Wisdom of Solomon [Sapientia Salomonis] (1962, 19802, J. Ziegler)
        Sirach [Sapientia Iesu Filii Sirach] (1965, 19802, J. Ziegler)
        Minor Prophets [Duodecim Prophetae] (1943, 19672, J. Ziegler)
        Isaiah [Isaias] (1939, 19672, J. Ziegler)
        Jeremiah, Baruch, Lamentations, Epistle of Jeremiah [Ieremias-Baruch-Threni-Epistula Ieremiae] (1957, 19762, J. Ziegler)
        Ezekiel (1952, J. Ziegler, 19782, J. Ziegler, suppl. D. Fraenkel)
        Susanna, Daniel, Bel and the Dragon [Susanna-Daniel-Bel et Draco] (1954, J. Ziegler, 19992, O. Munnich).
         
        This is not complete.
         
        The other major edition which is also incomplete is by A. E. Brooke, N. McLean, H. St-J. Thackeray, ed. The Old Testament in Greek London : Cambridge University Press, 1906-

        http://rosetta.reltech.org/cgi-bin/Ebind2html/TC/CambLXX

         
        Kevin
        Bryan Cox <b_coxus@...> wrote:
        What is the standard text used for collating Greek OT manuscripts? Is
        Rahlf's Septuaginta used?

        Similarly, how does one go about determining which "flavor" of Greek
        OT one has (i.e., Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion, etc.)?

        Thanks!
        Bryan Cox
        Plano, Tx




        Prof. Kevin W. Woodruff, M.Div., M.S.I.S.
        Library Director/Reference Librarian, Assistant Professor of Bible, Greek, Theological Bibliography and Research
        Tennessee Temple University/Temple Baptist Seminary, 1815 Union Ave.
        Chattanooga, Tennessee 37404, United States of America
        423/493-4252 (office) 423/698-9447 (home) 423/493-4497 (FAX)
        Cierpke@... http://pages.prodigy.net/cierpke/woodruff.htm
      • Filotheu Monahul
        For me, the 1709 edition of the LXX is the best text ever. http://www.cyclopaedia.org/1709/1709biblia.html
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
          For me, the 1709 edition of the LXX is the best text ever.
          http://www.cyclopaedia.org/1709/1709biblia.html


          On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 6:37 PM, Bryan Cox <b_coxus@...> wrote:

          What is the standard text used for collating Greek OT manuscripts? Is
          Rahlf's Septuaginta used?

          Similarly, how does one go about determining which "flavor" of Greek
          OT one has (i.e., Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion, etc.)?

          Thanks!
          Bryan Cox
          Plano, Tx

        • Daniel B. Wallace
          Bryan, I haven t worked in OT TC, so I can t answer those questions. But Peter Gentry at Southern Baptist Seminary could. If you write him, please forward his
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
            Bryan, I haven't worked in OT TC, so I can't answer those questions. But Peter Gentry at Southern Baptist Seminary could. If you write him, please forward his response to me. I'd be curious to know how he answers those questions. Thanks,

            dbw


            ----- Start Original Message -----
            Sent: Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:37:58 -0000
            From: "Bryan Cox" <b_coxus@...>
            To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [textualcriticism] Standard text for collation of Greek OT texts?

            >
            > What is the standard text used for collating Greek OT manuscripts? Is
            Rahlf's Septuaginta used?

            Similarly, how does one go about determining which "flavor" of Greek
            OT one has (i.e., Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion, etc.)?

            Thanks!
            Bryan Cox
            Plano, Tx




            ----- End Original Message -----
          • James Miller
            ... I think perhaps a false analogy is being made here (the TC situation regarding the LXX being analogized to the NT text critical situation where mss. have
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
              --- Bryan Cox <b_coxus@...> wrote:

              > What is the standard text used for collating Greek
              > OT manuscripts? Is
              > Rahlf's Septuaginta used?

              I think perhaps a false analogy is being made here
              (the TC situation regarding the LXX being analogized
              to the NT text critical situation where mss. have
              classically been collated against the TR). To get
              started in ensuring that I've understood you
              correctly, could you please say more about what you
              mean when you say "collating Greek OT manuscripts?" If
              you're looking for something like classification of
              readings into text types, such as is done in NT TC
              circles, I would remark initially that this enterprise
              seems to be in an even less well developed state in
              LXX studies than it is in NT studies. If that's what
              you're getting at, please let me know and I can make
              some more remarks in a subsequent post. If that's not
              where you're going with the question, perhaps I can
              make other contributions if you would offer further
              clarification.

              > Similarly, how does one go about determining which
              > "flavor" of Greek
              > OT one has (i.e., Aquila, Symmachus, Theodotion,
              > etc.)?

              I think these sorts of characterization (of text type)
              have been only partially worked out, and even then for
              only very limited portions of the OT in Greek. The
              matter is complicated by the fact that some of the
              so-called "recensions," e.g., Theodotion, appear to
              pre-date their alleged formulators.

              James

              PS This discussion may be more appropriate to the LXX
              listserv at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lxx/


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            • Bryan Cox
              ... For example, my original thought was to collate a MS against Rahlf s Septuaginta, observing and noting any differences. On second thought, I wondered if
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
                --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, James Miller <jamtata@...>
                > To get started in ensuring that I've understood you
                > correctly, could you please say more about what you
                > mean when you say "collating Greek OT manuscripts?"

                For example, my original thought was to collate a MS "against"
                Rahlf's Septuaginta, observing and noting any differences. On second
                thought, I wondered if Rahlf's was really the modern "standard" for
                collation. More than one person has suggested the Göttingen edition
                (as long as the texts fall within what has been completed to this
                point, which mine do).

                > If you're looking for something like classification of
                > readings into text types, such as is done in NT TC
                > circles, I would remark initially that this enterprise
                > seems to be in an even less well developed state in
                > LXX studies than it is in NT studies. If that's what
                > you're getting at, please let me know and I can make
                > some more remarks in a subsequent post.

                My second question was something along these lines, just for my own
                edification and not for what I am attempting to do. However, I
                certainly would not mind further information along these lines.

                > I think these sorts of characterization (of text type)
                > have been only partially worked out, and even then for
                > only very limited portions of the OT in Greek. The
                > matter is complicated by the fact that some of the
                > so-called "recensions," e.g., Theodotion, appear to
                > pre-date their alleged formulators.

                Interesting. I did not realize that these "recensions" had not been
                worked out (in at least in some detail) already.

                > PS This discussion may be more appropriate to the LXX
                > listserv at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lxx/

                I have posted my question there as well.

                Thanks,
                Bryan Cox
                Plano, Tx
              • James Miller
                ... Rahlfs s hand edition is a sort of trial run for the later Goettingen edition. It was meant to establish some general guidelines for the larger, more
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 25, 2008
                  --- Bryan Cox <b_coxus@...> wrote:

                  > For example, my original thought was to collate a MS
                  > "against"
                  > Rahlf's Septuaginta, observing and noting any
                  > differences. On second
                  > thought, I wondered if Rahlf's was really the modern
                  > "standard" for
                  > collation. More than one person has suggested the
                  > Göttingen edition
                  > (as long as the texts fall within what has been
                  > completed to this
                  > point, which mine do).

                  Rahlfs's hand edition is a sort of "trial run" for the
                  later Goettingen edition. It was meant to establish
                  some general guidelines for the larger, more complex
                  project that would follow it--like which books would
                  be included, what the apparatus would be like, etc.
                  Both Rahlfs's hand edition and the later Goettingen
                  utilize what's called an "eclectic approach." What
                  this means in practice is that the editor for any
                  given book takes into consideration all significant
                  readings from extant ms. evidence and chooses from
                  among them the reading that seems to him, according to
                  TC criteria, the most original. So, the text that
                  appears in the body of any given volume is eclectic,
                  meaning no particular ms. is favored over any other
                  and, conversely, that the way the body of the volume
                  reads cannot be found in any one ms. Alternate
                  readings of significance appear in the apparatus.

                  Given that basic mode of operation, I'm not really
                  sure how the notion of a collation applies. Certainly
                  the various ms. readings are collated against one
                  another. But so far as I know there is no reference
                  text--such as the TR has historically been a reference
                  text against which NT mss. are collated--for either
                  the Goettingen edition or Rahlfs's hand edition. If
                  someone else knows differently, I would appreciate
                  being informed about that.

                  It may be worth noting with respect to your other
                  query that the Goettingen editors do group mss.
                  together in their key according to whether they show
                  tendencies toward the recensions (e.g., Theodotion,
                  Aquila) or Origen's revised Septuagint. The problem
                  there, so far as I can see, is that no given ms. is
                  thought to have the text of any given book in a pure
                  form of that recension: all seem to be more or less
                  contaminated. I hope I'm relating to you accurately
                  the state of matters in this field.

                  It seems to me that the notion of a collation with
                  respect to the LXX would be more properly applied to
                  something like the Larger Cambridge Septuagint (often
                  called Brooke/McLean), and to its "trial run"
                  predecessor, Swete's hand edition of the LXX. In that
                  case, a "diplomatic approach" was taken to producing
                  an edition of the LXX. What this means is that a
                  single, high-quality ms. (Codex B) was chosen as the
                  text to be printed in the body of the work. Many other
                  mss. and authorities (the versions, patristic
                  evidence) were consulted as well. But alternate
                  readings, i.e., readings that differed from those
                  found in B, were relegated to the apparatus. As has
                  been noted, this edition of the LXX remains incomplete
                  and appears to have been abandoned a few decades ago.

                  > Interesting. I did not realize that these
                  > "recensions" had not been
                  > worked out (in at least in some detail) already.

                  My area of specialization is actually LXX, but I have
                  the impression that a similar state of affairs obtains
                  in NT studies as well. That is to say that the notion
                  of text-types is bandied about freely and even forms a
                  sort of touchstone of the field. But the more closely
                  one looks into what actually constitutes the type, the
                  further the notion of the set type fades away. I hope
                  to pose some questions along these lines soon on this
                  list regarding the relation of the lectionary text to
                  the Byzantine text type. In any case, I am certainly
                  open to correction on this question if I've portrayed
                  matters inaccurately.

                  I'll look forward to seeing what answers are posed to
                  your query on the LXX list.

                  James


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