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RE: [textualcriticism] Acts 8:37 - early church writer references

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  • Juan Stam
    Greetings from Costa Rica! I was excited to get this link to earlychristian wriitings, but I had trouble getting to the patristic text I wanted to find, after
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 31, 2007
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      Greetings from Costa Rica!

       

      I was excited to get this link to earlychristian wriitings, but I had trouble getting to the patristic text I wanted to find, after getting to the desired author.

       

      Can anyone help me on this procedure?

       

      Wishing everyone a great 2008,

       

      Juan Stam

      Universidad Nacional de Costa Rica

       

       


      From: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com [mailto:textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Dirkzwager
      Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:29 AM
      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Acts 8:37 - early church writer references

       

      Dear Schmuel,

      (Very) early fathers can be found in
      http://www.earlychr istianwritings. com/e-catena/

      Arie

      A. Dirkzwager
      Hoeselt, Belgium

    • Schmuel
      Hi Folks, Arie Dirkzwager wrote: (Very) early fathers can be found in http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/ ... earlychristian wriitings, but I had
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 1, 2008
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        Hi Folks,

        Arie Dirkzwager wrote:
        (Very) early fathers can be found in
        http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/

        > Juan Stam
        > was excited to get this link to earlychristian wriitings, but I had trouble getting
        >  to the patristic text I wanted to find, after getting to the desired author. 
        > Can anyone help me on this procedure?

        Greetings to Costa Rica.  Keep in mind that the ecatena is just a start, often incomplete,
        but an excellent start.  Unfortunately there is no consistent mechanism at the moment
        for working with Peter Kirby (the web fella) to expand the entries.

        When you hit a link that does not work (happens on some, because CCEL or others change
        their URL's,  take the text you see on the ecatena page and put it in Google with "quotes".
        You should find the original text in a few places.

        K.Martin Heide -
        for one of the best treatments of this verse, see Kurt Aland: "Der neutestamentliche Text in der vorkonstantinischen Epoche" in Pomero-Pose, Eugenio (ed.): Pléroma - Salus carnis, Santiago 1990, pp. 53-79, and see also, with some pro-"Western" bias, Rius and Read-Heimerdinger ("The Variant Readings of the Western Text of Acts of the Apostles XIII, (Acts 8:1b-40)" in Filología Neotestamentaria 15 (2002), pp. 111-132. and cf. also "The Message of Acts in Codex Bezae", Vol. II.

          Thank you Martin.

           "The Message of Acts in Codex Bezae" has its Acts 8:37 sections online.
        http://tinyurl.com/2wueye

            The list of early church writers for evidentiary purposes is fuller than most,
        Include -  Ir Tert Cyp Ambrst Pac Ambr Aug Theoph PsOec ChrAq
        Omit    -  Chr Theoph

            I do find cases where a person is on both sides of an include/omit question (Theophylactus
        here) needs to be subject to closer examination.  Clearly the inclusion must have far more
        weight than the omission (in a sense presence overrules absence as light overrules darkness).
        Unless the omission is a straight verse-by-verse homily or done in such a way that the lack
        of the verse is very strongly indicated.  This situation of dual-sided references arises frequently.

            Note that Hilary and Eusebius and Jerome, Arator, Praedestinatus and Bede
        are not mentioned at all.  And there are others possible, as I discussed previously,
        subject to more research.  (Granted Eusebius has only a mild indication.)

        .  The only church writer sections discussed in any depth are the two Iraeneus sections.
        As is often the case in modern textcrit apparatus not even the location of most of the
        writings are given, much less yet the actual quotes.  Personally, I believe this is a great lack.

           They do discuss the doctrinal aspects some (put "Acts 8:37 or eunuch into the search
        to find the pages) and although I believe what they write is sensible, on such issues YMMV
        (your mileage may vary). Often both sides can be argued, depending on ones view of lectio
        difficilior and ones view of early church doctrines and other issues.

           I have been mostly bypassing the many MSS issues and doctrinal and church history
        and internal issues on this thread, simply to really nail down the church writer quotations,
        which are generally unavailable as a unit.  A great lack.

            The only text discussion that fits this bill is the discussion of Iraeneus, where
        he mentions text from a Greek fragment of the Catema of Irenaeus IV.23.2. 

        This may differ some from the Roberts-Donaldson translation version on the Net.
        http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
        http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vi.xxiv.html
        Ireaneaus 4.23.2 - Chapter XXIII.

            Thank you for the resources.  I do wonder if the other two sources will offer any
        new information directly bearing on the church writer references.  Analysis as in
        "The Message of Acts.." is helpful, too, so I do not want to unnecessarily limit
        the other sources, but do they offer more direct information on the 15-20 other
        early church writer sources that discuss, either by quotation or indirectly,
        the account of Acts 8 ?  The MSS and doctrine and internal and textcrit theory
        issues I mostly want to wait for another day.

        Shalom,
        Steven
      • clontzjm
        Hello Juan, These three references are from schaff s notes: Cyprian[Treatise XII.Book III.43] Irenaeus[Against Heresies Book III.12.8] Pontius the Deacon[The
        Message 3 of 9 , Jan 21, 2008
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          Hello Juan,

          These three references are from schaff's notes:

          Cyprian[Treatise XII.Book III.43]
          Irenaeus[Against Heresies Book III.12.8]
          Pontius the Deacon[The Life and Passion of Cyprian 2]

          Peace,

          Jerry
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