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[textualcriticism] Acts 8:37 - early church writer references

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  • schmuel
    Hi Textualcriticism, Greetings. Here is a question about early church writer references for a verse of some special textual (and doctrinal) significance. Acts
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 29, 2007
      Hi Textualcriticism,

      Greetings.

      Here is a question about early church writer references for a verse of
      some special textual (and doctrinal) significance.

      Acts 8:37 (KJB)
      And Philip said,
      If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
      and he answered and said,
      I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

      So far, I have been able to find, with some assistance, very significant references
      for Ireneaus, Cyprian and Augustine, rather significant for Tertullian, and somewhat
      less evidentiary for Eusebius, Jerome and Chrysostom.  Eusebius and Jerome are
      not given in the apparatus, perhaps because the textual situation is more implied
      than direct (this unspecificity of reference is also true in Chrysostom and Tertullian)
      however it would appear that their references could make a more exhaustive and
      accurate apparatus.

      The Münster apparatus online
      http://www.laparola.net/greco/index.php

      Combined with a bit of other checking indicates a number of other references
      that are of textual significance, however in most of these cases we have little
      more than the name of the church writer easily available.

      Ambrosiaster  (384)
      Pacian      (c. 385)
      Chromatius    (c. 390)
      Ambrose (397)
      Praedestinatus (5th c)
      Bede (735)
      Oecumenius (990)
      Theophylact (1077)

      Paredestinatus is a bit of an unusual work, in terms of dating and provenance,
      and the Bede reference may be an analysis of what was in his Bible rather
      than an actual quote. Oh, yes, not all of these are "early" church writer :-) ..

      If anyone has the resources to track down any of the following for these references.

      1) Citation
      2) Greek or Latin quotation
      3) English translation

      It would be much appreciated.

      In terms of easily accessible material, often there is helpful reference material on
      such verses with variants in Dean John Burgon, however I do not believe he did any
      special write-up on Acts 8:37, although he does indicate indirectly that he viewed
      this verse as scripture.  

      Shalom,
      Steven Avery
      Queens, NY
    • A. Dirkzwager
      Dear Schmuel, (Very) early fathers can be found in http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/ Arie A. Dirkzwager Hoeselt, Belgium
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 30, 2007
        Dear Schmuel,

        (Very) early fathers can be found in
        http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/

        Arie

        A. Dirkzwager
        Hoeselt, Belgium
      • George F Somsel
        I can t help you with most, but you might find your Theophylact reference here http://tinyurl.com/2vabpe george gfsomsel Therefore, O faithful Christian,
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 30, 2007
          I can't help you with most, but you might find your Theophylact reference here
           
          george
          gfsomsel
           
          Therefore, O faithful Christian, search for truth, hear truth,
          learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
          defend the truth till death.
           
          - Jan Hus
          _________


          ----- Original Message ----
          From: schmuel <schmuel@...>
          To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 8:29:15 AM
          Subject: [textualcriticism] Acts 8:37 - early church writer references

          Hi Textualcriticism,

          Greetings.

          Here is a question about early church writer references for a verse of
          some special textual (and doctrinal) significance.

          Acts 8:37 (KJB)
          And Philip said,
          If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest.
          and he answered and said,
          I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

          So far, I have been able to find, with some assistance, very significant references
          for Ireneaus, Cyprian and Augustine, rather significant for Tertullian, and somewhat
          less evidentiary for Eusebius, Jerome and Chrysostom.  Eusebius and Jerome are
          not given in the apparatus, perhaps because the textual situation is more implied
          than direct (this unspecificity of reference is also true in Chrysostom and Tertullian)
          however it would appear that their references could make a more exhaustive and
          accurate apparatus.

          The Münster apparatus online
          http://www.laparola .net/greco/ index.php

          Combined with a bit of other checking indicates a number of other references
          that are of textual significance, however in most of these cases we have little
          more than the name of the church writer easily available.

          Ambrosiaster  (384)
          Pacian      (c. 385)
          Chromatius    (c. 390)
          Ambrose (397)
          Praedestinatus (5th c)
          Bede (735)
          Oecumenius (990)
          Theophylact (1077)

          Paredestinatus is a bit of an unusual work, in terms of dating and provenance,
          and the Bede reference may be an analysis of what was in his Bible rather
          than an actual quote. Oh, yes, not all of these are "early" church writer :-) ..

          If anyone has the resources to track down any of the following for these references.

          1) Citation
          2) Greek or Latin quotation
          3) English translation

          It would be much appreciated.

          In terms of easily accessible material, often there is helpful reference material on
          such verses with variants in Dean John Burgon, however I do not believe he did any
          special write-up on Acts 8:37, although he does indicate indirectly that he viewed
          this verse as scripture.  

          Shalom,
          Steven Avery
          Queens, NY




          Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
        • John McChesney-Young
          At 8:29 AM -0500 12/29/07, schmuel wrote: Here is a question about early church writer references for a verse of some special textual (and doctrinal)
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 30, 2007
            At 8:29 AM -0500 12/29/07, schmuel wrote:

            Here is a question about early church writer references for a verse of
            some special textual (and doctrinal) significance.

            Acts 8:37 (KJB)
            ...

            I picked an easy one:

            << Pacian (c. 385) >>

            Discourse on Baptism 7 (in that translation's numbering):

            For so saith Philip, If thou believest . . . thou mayest.

            http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/pacian_5_baptism.htm

            ***

            Sermo de Baptismo 6, PL 13:1093b

            Sic enim ait Philippus: Si credis, potes.

            http://tinyurl.com/3bhz2a

            ***

            There's a more modern translation of the work in the CUA Fathers of
            the Church series (v. 99; _Iberian Fathers_) and there are several
            editions more recent than the PL, the latest of which is in the SC
            (v. 410; E/crits [par] Pacien de Barcelone). I don't have either at
            hand but both should be in any major research library if you want to
            ensure there aren't any text critical problems.

            John
            --


            *** John McChesney-Young ** panis~at~pacbell.net ** Berkeley,
            California, U.S.A. ***
          • K.Martin Heide
            Dear Schmuel, for one of the best treatments of this verse, see Kurt Aland: Der neutestamentliche Text in der vorkonstantinischen Epoche in Pomero-Pose,
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 31, 2007
              Dear Schmuel,

              for one of the best treatments of this verse, see Kurt Aland:
              "Der neutestamentliche Text in der vorkonstantinischen Epoche" in Pomero-Pose, Eugenio (ed.): Pléroma - Salus carnis, Santiago 1990, pp. 53-79,

               and see also, with some pro-"Western" bias, Rius and Read-Heimerdinger ("The Variant Readings of the Western Text of Acts of the Apostles XIII, (Acts 8:1b-40)" in Filología Neotestamentaria 15 (2002), pp. 111-132.


              and cf. also "The Message of Acts in Codex Bezae", Vol. II.

              Blessings for the New Year,

              Martin


              A. Dirkzwager wrote:

              Dear Schmuel,

              (Very) early fathers can be found in
              http://www.earlychr istianwritings. com/e-catena/

              Arie

              A. Dirkzwager
              Hoeselt, Belgium

            • Schmuel
              Hi John, Thanks, John. I just realized tonight that Roger Pearse (Tertullian.org) had the Pacian material online, leading to the English-language references
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 31, 2007
                Hi John,

                  Thanks, John.  I just realized tonight that Roger Pearse (Tertullian.org) had
                the Pacian material online, leading  to the English-language references which
                you sent in earlier today :-) .   (A bit of net-time-warp synchronocity.)

                John McChesney-Young -
                I picked an easy one: << Pacian  (c. 385) >>
                Discourse on Baptism 7 (in that translation's numbering):
                For so saith Philip, If thou believest . . . thou mayest. http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/pacian_5_baptism.htm
                *** Sermo de Baptismo 6, PL 13:1093b
                 Sic enim ait Philippus: Si credis, potes.
                http://tinyurl.com/3bhz2a

                The John Henry Parker book, with the Charles Henry Collyns translation of Pacian,
                is also Google online at:

                http://books.google.com/books?id=hL93ESF90JQC&pg=PA382
                The Epistles of S. Cyprian with the Council of Carthage

                The Latin text and what you share below about other editions is helpful, too.

                There's a more modern translation of the work in the CUA Fathers of the Church series (v. 99; _Iberian Fathers_) and there are several editions more recent than the PL, the latest of which is in the SC (v. 410; E/crits [par] Pacien de Barcelone). I don't have either at hand but both should be in any major research library if you want to ensure there aren't any text critical problems.

                ==============================================================

                Right now I am researching some additional material.
                And it looks like there may be some more references missing from the apparatus,
                not discussed in the previous post.  Hilary and Arator very possibly.  Jerome may
                have more than realized, and some others.

                =========================================================

                AMBROSIASTER

                From the earlier list in the post:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/textualcriticism/message/3489

                This is likely the Ambrosiaster reference.

                http://tinyurl.com/2xcezf
                The ecclesiastical polity of the New Testament - By Samuel Davidson (1854) p. 138

                "Philip did not seek for a time or a day in which he might baptize the eunuch.
                 Nor did he interpose fasting"  - Ambrosiaster  (384) - Note XXVII

                =========================================================

                ARATOR ON THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES - HILLYER

                A great source has been:

                http://books.google.com/books?id=rpBXjVdOtlAC
                Arator on the Acts of the Apostles: A Baptismal Commentary - Richard Hillier (Oxford 1993)

                Searching for eunuch and baptism gets to around p. 95 with a rich, full section.
                Arator himself will likely be a solid 6th-century reference.

                ===================================================

                CHRMOMATIUS

                First, from the above book, looks like some of the Chromatius of Aquileia quote is:

                "Thus this eunuch, since he is a dove, is chosen, but Simon the magician, since he is a raven, is rejected; for the former believed with his whole heart and whole faith, but the latter drew near,
                doubting in his mind and all full of faithlessness.  And therefore one was received and the other
                cast out; one was commended and the other condemned."

                Plus the additional quote comparing the eunuch and Cornelius
                (footnote p. 98 ref to Tract 9:2 with Latin given)

                ======================================================

                HILARY

                And here is a Hilary reference, limited but positive, missing in the apparatus.

                http://tinyurl.com/2bebmy (p. 106)
                Now, Ethiopia precedes in its confession of faith through the Eunuch of Candace .... (continues)
                Hilary (Tract in Ps. 67.33)

                ==================================================

                JEROME

                Some Jerome references are given (footnotes p. 95 and p.97 and p. 102) that may bear
                on Acts 8:37 and since Jerome had been given as a reference by Scrivener and Jessup,
                there should be good material.  Although he is missing in the Münster apparatus and modern
                textcrit discussions.

                The one Jerome reference I had was helpful, albeit a bit light:

                http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf206.v.CVIII.html#v.CVIII-p106.1
                Then immediately quickening her pace she began to move along the old road which leads to Gaza, that is to the ‘power’ or ‘wealth’ of God, silently meditating on that type of the Gentiles, the Ethiopian eunuch, who in spite of the prophet changed his skin and whilst he read the old testament found the fountain of the gospel. (Jerome - Epistle 108:11)

                Similar with Eusebius, whom Hillyer discusses on p. 99.  Also he discusses Tertullian,
                whose reference is on the web, in the pages I saw he didn't mention Augustine.

                The Richard Hillier references in the Arator book should lead to more. Arator, Jerome,
                and possibly Peter Chrysologus (p.98 - Sermo 60: De Symbolo 5.1 also p. 106)
                or Gregory of Nyssa (footnote p. 97 - De Bapt. PG 46:421) and Eusebius
                and Cyril of Jerusalem (p. 99) could be checked, plus there may be more on
                p. 100-101 and the later pages, I maxed my Google welcome and some pages
                are simply not viewable. 

                =============================================================

                CHRYSOSTOM

                Also Hillyer has Chrysostom references.  He is referenced negatively on Acts 8:37 in
                Münster apparatus, however the Schaff note points out that the implication is unclear. 

                http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf111.vi.xix.html#vi.xix-p0.1
                John Chrysostom - Homily on Acts
                And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?” (v. 36.) Mark the eager desire, mark the exact knowledge. “And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.” (v. 38, 39.)

                With Hillyer the Chrysostom material I saw is on p. 96 p. 97 Homily in Acts 19.2 - 3 de bapt 18:2
                The homily on Acts is the material above, but the Baptism writing would be different, possibly
                listed as "Two Instructions to Candidates for Baptism" in the Schaaf edition.

                ============================================================

                AMBROSIASTER

                Ambrosiaster  (384) - Note XXVII
                  "Philip did not seek for a time or a day in which he might baptize the eunuch.
                  Nor did he interpose fasting" 
                  The ecclesiastical polity of the New Testament - By Samuel Davidson (1854) p. 138

                ============================================================
                SUMMARY

                Quotes have been found for :

                Irenaeus
                Tertullian
                Cyprian
                Augustine
                Eusebius (minor)
                Chrysostom
                Jerome (minor)
                Hilary
                Ambrosiaster  (384)
                Pacian      (c. 385)
                Chromatius    (c. 390)

                The original search list also had (two notes added) :

                Ambrose (397)
                Praedestinatus (5th c)
                Bede (735) - may be a reference to his scripture text.
                Oecumenius (990)
                Theophylact (1077) - twice quoted (Scrivener), Latin section given by George Somsel

                And now there are some new ones to research per Hillyer above.
                These two are very likely to have solid material.

                Arator  -  ironically I did not find his exact quotes in my search of the Hillyer book
                Jerome - Scrivner and Jessup give him a definite yes

                Research using Arator-Hillyer references:

                Gregroy of Nyssa
                Chrysologus
                Eusebius
                Cyril of Jerusalem,
                ======================

                Warm thanks for the efforts and assistance !

                Shalom,
                Steven Avery
                Queens, NY
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic



              • Juan Stam
                Greetings from Costa Rica! I was excited to get this link to earlychristian wriitings, but I had trouble getting to the patristic text I wanted to find, after
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 31, 2007

                  Greetings from Costa Rica!

                   

                  I was excited to get this link to earlychristian wriitings, but I had trouble getting to the patristic text I wanted to find, after getting to the desired author.

                   

                  Can anyone help me on this procedure?

                   

                  Wishing everyone a great 2008,

                   

                  Juan Stam

                  Universidad Nacional de Costa Rica

                   

                   


                  From: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com [mailto:textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of A. Dirkzwager
                  Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:29 AM
                  To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Acts 8:37 - early church writer references

                   

                  Dear Schmuel,

                  (Very) early fathers can be found in
                  http://www.earlychr istianwritings. com/e-catena/

                  Arie

                  A. Dirkzwager
                  Hoeselt, Belgium

                • Schmuel
                  Hi Folks, Arie Dirkzwager wrote: (Very) early fathers can be found in http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/ ... earlychristian wriitings, but I had
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jan 1, 2008
                    Hi Folks,

                    Arie Dirkzwager wrote:
                    (Very) early fathers can be found in
                    http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/e-catena/

                    > Juan Stam
                    > was excited to get this link to earlychristian wriitings, but I had trouble getting
                    >  to the patristic text I wanted to find, after getting to the desired author. 
                    > Can anyone help me on this procedure?

                    Greetings to Costa Rica.  Keep in mind that the ecatena is just a start, often incomplete,
                    but an excellent start.  Unfortunately there is no consistent mechanism at the moment
                    for working with Peter Kirby (the web fella) to expand the entries.

                    When you hit a link that does not work (happens on some, because CCEL or others change
                    their URL's,  take the text you see on the ecatena page and put it in Google with "quotes".
                    You should find the original text in a few places.

                    K.Martin Heide -
                    for one of the best treatments of this verse, see Kurt Aland: "Der neutestamentliche Text in der vorkonstantinischen Epoche" in Pomero-Pose, Eugenio (ed.): Pléroma - Salus carnis, Santiago 1990, pp. 53-79, and see also, with some pro-"Western" bias, Rius and Read-Heimerdinger ("The Variant Readings of the Western Text of Acts of the Apostles XIII, (Acts 8:1b-40)" in Filología Neotestamentaria 15 (2002), pp. 111-132. and cf. also "The Message of Acts in Codex Bezae", Vol. II.

                      Thank you Martin.

                       "The Message of Acts in Codex Bezae" has its Acts 8:37 sections online.
                    http://tinyurl.com/2wueye

                        The list of early church writers for evidentiary purposes is fuller than most,
                    Include -  Ir Tert Cyp Ambrst Pac Ambr Aug Theoph PsOec ChrAq
                    Omit    -  Chr Theoph

                        I do find cases where a person is on both sides of an include/omit question (Theophylactus
                    here) needs to be subject to closer examination.  Clearly the inclusion must have far more
                    weight than the omission (in a sense presence overrules absence as light overrules darkness).
                    Unless the omission is a straight verse-by-verse homily or done in such a way that the lack
                    of the verse is very strongly indicated.  This situation of dual-sided references arises frequently.

                        Note that Hilary and Eusebius and Jerome, Arator, Praedestinatus and Bede
                    are not mentioned at all.  And there are others possible, as I discussed previously,
                    subject to more research.  (Granted Eusebius has only a mild indication.)

                    .  The only church writer sections discussed in any depth are the two Iraeneus sections.
                    As is often the case in modern textcrit apparatus not even the location of most of the
                    writings are given, much less yet the actual quotes.  Personally, I believe this is a great lack.

                       They do discuss the doctrinal aspects some (put "Acts 8:37 or eunuch into the search
                    to find the pages) and although I believe what they write is sensible, on such issues YMMV
                    (your mileage may vary). Often both sides can be argued, depending on ones view of lectio
                    difficilior and ones view of early church doctrines and other issues.

                       I have been mostly bypassing the many MSS issues and doctrinal and church history
                    and internal issues on this thread, simply to really nail down the church writer quotations,
                    which are generally unavailable as a unit.  A great lack.

                        The only text discussion that fits this bill is the discussion of Iraeneus, where
                    he mentions text from a Greek fragment of the Catema of Irenaeus IV.23.2. 

                    This may differ some from the Roberts-Donaldson translation version on the Net.
                    http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/irenaeus-book4.html
                    http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf01.ix.vi.xxiv.html
                    Ireaneaus 4.23.2 - Chapter XXIII.

                        Thank you for the resources.  I do wonder if the other two sources will offer any
                    new information directly bearing on the church writer references.  Analysis as in
                    "The Message of Acts.." is helpful, too, so I do not want to unnecessarily limit
                    the other sources, but do they offer more direct information on the 15-20 other
                    early church writer sources that discuss, either by quotation or indirectly,
                    the account of Acts 8 ?  The MSS and doctrine and internal and textcrit theory
                    issues I mostly want to wait for another day.

                    Shalom,
                    Steven
                  • clontzjm
                    Hello Juan, These three references are from schaff s notes: Cyprian[Treatise XII.Book III.43] Irenaeus[Against Heresies Book III.12.8] Pontius the Deacon[The
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jan 21, 2008
                      Hello Juan,

                      These three references are from schaff's notes:

                      Cyprian[Treatise XII.Book III.43]
                      Irenaeus[Against Heresies Book III.12.8]
                      Pontius the Deacon[The Life and Passion of Cyprian 2]

                      Peace,

                      Jerry
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