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Re: [textualcriticism] Mark 7:3 and P45

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  • Steve Puluka
    ... According to the transcription in Barrett s The complete text of the Earliest NT manuscripts it does not. Steve Puluka steve@puluka.com Cantor Holy Ghost
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 2, 2007
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      On Nov 1, 2007, at 4:45 PM, sarban wrote:

      > According to the manuals P45 preserves part of Mark 7:3.
      >
      > Is it possible to determine whether or not the clause
      > "and all the Jews" was included in the text of P45
      >
      > Thanks
      >
      > Andrew Criddle


      According to the transcription in Barrett's "The complete text of the
      Earliest NT manuscripts" it does not.

      Steve Puluka
      steve@...
      Cantor Holy Ghost Church
      Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
      Mckees Rocks, PA
    • George F Somsel
      Here is the precise text of P45 at Mk 7.3, 4 as published in Comfort & Barrett. 3εσθειουσιν κρατουντες την] παραδοσιν των
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 3, 2007
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        Here is the precise text of P45 at Mk 7.3, 4 as published in Comfort & Barrett.
         
         
        3εσθειουσιν κρατουντες την] παραδοσιν των πρεσβυτερ[ων 4και
        απ αγορας εαν μη β]α[π]τ[ι]σωνται ουκ εσθειουσιν και αλλα π[ολ
        λα εστιν α παρελα]βον κρατειν βαπτισμους ποτηριων κ[αι ξεστων και χαλ
        κιων
         
        Comfort, P. W., & Barrett, D. P. (2001). The text of the earliest New Testament Greek manuscripts (A corrected, enlarged ed. of The complete text of the earliest New Testament manuscripts) (168). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House.

         
        george
        gfsomsel
         
        Therefore, O faithful Christian, search for truth, hear truth,
        learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
        defend the truth till death.
         
        - Jan Hus
        _________


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Steve Puluka <steve@...>
        To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, November 2, 2007 7:22:05 PM
        Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Mark 7:3 and P45

        On Nov 1, 2007, at 4:45 PM, sarban wrote:

        > According to the manuals P45 preserves part of Mark 7:3.
        >
        > Is it possible to determine whether or not the clause
        > "and all the Jews" was included in the text of P45
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > Andrew Criddle

        According to the transcription in Barrett's "The complete text of the
        Earliest NT manuscripts" it does not.

        Steve Puluka
        steve@puluka. com
        Cantor Holy Ghost Church
        Carpatho-Rusyn tradition
        Mckees Rocks, PA



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      • sarban
        AFAIK there is no external evidence whatever to suggest it is not original. However, it was recently suggested on another discussion board, that on internal
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 3, 2007
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          AFAIK there is no external evidence whatever to suggest it
          is not original.
           
          However, it was recently suggested on another discussion
          board, that on internal evidence it might be a gloss since
          it would seem to correspond more to the situation after
          70 CE than to that before 70 CE.
           
          Andrew Criddle
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Eric Rowe
          Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 3:23 PM
          Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Mark 7:3 and P45

          According to Swanson, P45 has nothing in Mark 7:3 before the word
          paradosin. Since the last place in Mark before that that is preserved
          in P45 is part of Mark 6:50, I doubt that you could use the space in
          between to divine whether "and all the Jews" indeed was present in the
          earlier part of 7:3. But why do you ask? This phrase is not in dispute
          is it?


          >

        • Eric Rowe
          The history of hand washing halakha in relation to Mark 7:3 has been the subject of tons of articles and books already, the fullest of which that I ve seen is
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 3, 2007
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            The history of hand washing halakha in relation to Mark 7:3 has been
            the subject of tons of articles and books already, the fullest of
            which that I've seen is Jesus and the Laws of Purity, by Roger Booth,
            JSOT, 1986. Scholars aren't all in agreement about the state of hand
            washing in pre-70 Judaism. But regardless of pre-70 or post-70 it
            seems like the phrase "all the Jews" is not accurate in the strictly
            literal sense. I would just read it as hyperbole, just like when Mark
            says that "all the Jews" went out to see John the Baptist. I suppose
            it is an explanatory gloss, but one Mark made to his source, not one
            that a scribe made to Mark. If someone objects that Mark couldn't have
            come up with it because it wasn't true in his day, I would say that it
            still wasn't true of ALL the Jews at any later time. Since it's
            hyperbole it could just as easily have been written before 70 as after.

            --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "sarban" <sarban@...> wrote:
            >
            > AFAIK there is no external evidence whatever to suggest it
            > is not original.
            >
            > However, it was recently suggested on another discussion
            > board, that on internal evidence it might be a gloss since
            > it would seem to correspond more to the situation after
            > 70 CE than to that before 70 CE.
            >
            > Andrew Criddle
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: Eric Rowe
            > To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 3:23 PM
            > Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Mark 7:3 and P45
            >
            >
            > According to Swanson, P45 has nothing in Mark 7:3 before the word
            > paradosin. Since the last place in Mark before that that is preserved
            > in P45 is part of Mark 6:50, I doubt that you could use the space in
            > between to divine whether "and all the Jews" indeed was present in the
            > earlier part of 7:3. But why do you ask? This phrase is not in dispute
            > is it?
            >
            >
            > >
            >
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