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Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Try this...

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  • goranson@duke.edu
    I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often not just sparse but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with the first year
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
      I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often not just sparse
      but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with the first year
      of publication, regardless which volume is displayed. Also, the
      combinations of
      scans sometimes cutting off text, or poor quality, or the text-reading
      software,
      results in inaccurate text readings, so the keyword search misses words
      that are
      there and claims words that are not there, upon inspection of the image.
      Sometimes these problems can be worked around. For example, I was looking for
      the earliest uses of words (Egyptology, Archaeology, etc.), uses earlier than
      those in the Oxford English Dictionary (and found them), but sometimes have to
      try plan B. E.g., An obituary of an Egyptologist was cut off, giving only part
      of his name, but on figuring out who was meant, I searched again and found an
      earlier text with Egyptologist, though the keyword search misssed it. And, by
      checking the works of George Gliddon, who travelled P.T. Barnum-like, with an
      Egyptology show, found another keyword-search failed usage, though with the
      wrong book title and date given by google. (OT: Edgar Allen Poe, by the way,
      put Gliddon unflatteringly in his 1845 story "Some Words with a Mummy,"
      wherein
      a mummy in New Orleans is zapped with electricity, comes to life, and
      chats. In
      1850 in Boston, Gliddon assembled a big crowd, with distinguished persons
      attending, to unwrap a mummy, one Gliddin declared, from hieroglyphics,
      to be a
      woman; a princess, the press announced. On unwrapping, it was plainly a man.

      Google books is fascinating.

      Stephen Goranson
      http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
    • ivanyyong
      I ve toyed with this for a day or two now and have seen, in addition to the Migne volumes, works by some of the textual critics of the past, including
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
        I've toyed with this for a day or two now and have seen, in addition to the Migne volumes,
        works by some of the textual critics of the past, including Tischendorf, Westcott/Hort, etc.
        Unfortunately, not Tischendorf's 8th or Westcott/Hort's 1881, but the possibility is there.

        No doubt there will still be those who prefer their first contact with research sources to be
        on paper in the library, but if Google actually follows through on this, it could dramatically
        speed up the research process. I for one will be glad.

        Would anyone else agree that it would be useful for everyone to have on a webpage a list
        of text-critical works with direct links to their associated records on Google Books? It
        could be a collaborative effort; just email back any suggestions with the associated URL.
        We can put this list of works on the CSNTM site.

        Ivan


        --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, goranson@... wrote:
        >
        > I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often not just sparse
        > but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with the first year
        > of publication, regardless which volume is displayed. Also, the
        > combinations of
        > scans sometimes cutting off text, or poor quality, or the text-reading
        > software,
        > results in inaccurate text readings, so the keyword search misses words
        > that are
        > there and claims words that are not there, upon inspection of the image.
        > Sometimes these problems can be worked around. For example, I was looking for
        > the earliest uses of words (Egyptology, Archaeology, etc.), uses earlier than
        > those in the Oxford English Dictionary (and found them), but sometimes have to
        > try plan B. E.g., An obituary of an Egyptologist was cut off, giving only part
        > of his name, but on figuring out who was meant, I searched again and found an
        > earlier text with Egyptologist, though the keyword search misssed it. And, by
        > checking the works of George Gliddon, who travelled P.T. Barnum-like, with an
        > Egyptology show, found another keyword-search failed usage, though with the
        > wrong book title and date given by google. (OT: Edgar Allen Poe, by the way,
        > put Gliddon unflatteringly in his 1845 story "Some Words with a Mummy,"
        > wherein
        > a mummy in New Orleans is zapped with electricity, comes to life, and
        > chats. In
        > 1850 in Boston, Gliddon assembled a big crowd, with distinguished persons
        > attending, to unwrap a mummy, one Gliddin declared, from hieroglyphics,
        > to be a
        > woman; a princess, the press announced. On unwrapping, it was plainly a man.
        >
        > Google books is fascinating.
        >
        > Stephen Goranson
        > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
        >
      • Roger Pearse
        ... wrote: _A ... I m ... of ... No download is visible to me (in the UK) -- can others see the PDF download? I d be interested to know how UK
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
          --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young
          <panis@...> wrote:
          _A
          > Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus with the Received Text of the
          > New Testament_ (1864) by Scrivener, which is available as a 10.4MB
          > download.
          >
          > http://tinyurl.com/lnuna
          >
          > Unfortunately, I believe Google restricts access - to what extent
          I'm
          > not sure - to US-based IP addresses, so this might prove to be an
          > obstacle to list members in Europe and elsewhere, although it's a
          > barrier which I know has been surmounted by at least one UK member
          of
          > another list I'm on.

          No download is visible to me (in the UK) -- can others see the PDF
          download?

          I'd be interested to know how UK people can avoid this problem.

          All the best,

          Roger Pearse
        • mr.scrivener
          Being constantly frustrated with interference from the clueless, preventing access to freely available and uncopyrighted material, I have gathered such items
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
            Being constantly frustrated with interference from the clueless,
            preventing access to freely available and uncopyrighted material, I
            have gathered such items myself, and posted a few on the internet:

            For Hort's 8 pages on the Pericope de Adultera, go here:

            http://cadesign.webworkercanada.com/pa/TEXT/Hort.pdf

            For Samuel Davidson' internal evidence on John 8:1-11 go here:

            http://cadesign.webworkercanada.com/pa/TEXT/Davidson.pdf

            And, remember, you're welcome,
            because I was.

            Unusually cheerful today,
            Eeyore

            --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "ivanyyong" <ivanyyong@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I've toyed with this for a day or two now and have seen, in
            addition to the Migne volumes,
            > works by some of the textual critics of the past, including
            Tischendorf, Westcott/Hort, etc.
            > Unfortunately, not Tischendorf's 8th or Westcott/Hort's 1881, but
            the possibility is there.
            >
            > No doubt there will still be those who prefer their first contact
            with research sources to be
            > on paper in the library, but if Google actually follows through on
            this, it could dramatically
            > speed up the research process. I for one will be glad.
            >
            > Would anyone else agree that it would be useful for everyone to
            have on a webpage a list
            > of text-critical works with direct links to their associated
            records on Google Books? It
            > could be a collaborative effort; just email back any suggestions
            with the associated URL.
            > We can put this list of works on the CSNTM site.
            >
            > Ivan
            >
            >
            > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, goranson@ wrote:
            > >
            > > I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often
            not just sparse
            > > but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with
            the first year
            > > of publication, regardless which volume is displayed. Also, the
            > > combinations of
            > > scans sometimes cutting off text, or poor quality, or the text-
            reading
            > > software,
            > > results in inaccurate text readings, so the keyword search misses
            words
            > > that are
            > > there and claims words that are not there, upon inspection of the
            image.
            > > Sometimes these problems can be worked around. For example, I was
            looking for
            > > the earliest uses of words (Egyptology, Archaeology, etc.), uses
            earlier than
            > > those in the Oxford English Dictionary (and found them), but
            sometimes have to
            > > try plan B. E.g., An obituary of an Egyptologist was cut off,
            giving only part
            > > of his name, but on figuring out who was meant, I searched again
            and found an
            > > earlier text with Egyptologist, though the keyword search misssed
            it. And, by
            > > checking the works of George Gliddon, who travelled P.T. Barnum-
            like, with an
            > > Egyptology show, found another keyword-search failed usage,
            though with the
            > > wrong book title and date given by google. (OT: Edgar Allen Poe,
            by the way,
            > > put Gliddon unflatteringly in his 1845 story "Some Words with a
            Mummy,"
            > > wherein
            > > a mummy in New Orleans is zapped with electricity, comes to life,
            and
            > > chats. In
            > > 1850 in Boston, Gliddon assembled a big crowd, with distinguished
            persons
            > > attending, to unwrap a mummy, one Gliddin declared, from
            hieroglyphics,
            > > to be a
            > > woman; a princess, the press announced. On unwrapping, it was
            plainly a man.
            > >
            > > Google books is fascinating.
            > >
            > > Stephen Goranson
            > > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
            > >
            >
          • David Robert Palmer
            Roger, Whether or not you solve the Google problem, you may download the Scrivener Sinaticus collation from my site with this direct link. It is not the
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
              Roger,

              Whether or not you solve the Google problem, you may download the Scrivener
              Sinaticus collation from my site with this direct link. It is not the
              Google-marked version. 8.62 MB.

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/CollatCdxSinait.pdf

              Also, Scrivener's collation of Codex Augiensis, along with 50 other mss.,
              also a pdf. 30.3 MB.

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ScrivCdxAugiensis.pdf

              While you are at it, I recommend downloading some Unicode fonts useful for
              New Testament textual criticism. I did a fair amount of searching and
              testing of many free Unicode fonts, and these are the best for free in my
              opinion:

              Doulos SIL for critical apparatus and entire IPA, 1.1 MB:

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/DoulosSIL.zip

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ttf-sil-doulous.deb

              GentiumAlt font for Greek, IPA (has the entire IPA except 5 tone bars), and
              is a decent font just for every-day English/Latin; 9 MB; Debian package
              much smaller.

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/gentium102.zip

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/gentium102.sit

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ttf-sil-gentium.deb

              Ezra SIL for Hebrew, this being the clearest free Hebrew font by
              far. Though Cardo98 is also good for all three, Greek, Hebrew and critical
              apparatus. 3.3 MB.

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ezrsil20.zip

              http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ezrsil20.tar.gz


              At 02:49 PM 9/1/2006 +0000, you wrote:

              >--- In
              ><mailto:textualcriticism%40yahoogroups.com>textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com,
              >John McChesney-Young
              ><panis@...> wrote:
              >_A
              > > Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus with the Received Text of the
              > > New Testament_ (1864) by Scrivener, which is available as a 10.4MB
              > > download.
              > >
              > > <http://tinyurl.com/lnuna>http://tinyurl.com/lnuna
              > >
              > > Unfortunately, I believe Google restricts access - to what extent
              >I'm
              > > not sure - to US-based IP addresses, so this might prove to be an
              > > obstacle to list members in Europe and elsewhere, although it's a
              > > barrier which I know has been surmounted by at least one UK member
              >of
              > > another list I'm on.
              >
              >No download is visible to me (in the UK) -- can others see the PDF
              >download?
              >
              >I'd be interested to know how UK people can avoid this problem.
              >
              >All the best,
              >
              >Roger Pearse
              >
              >
            • mr.scrivener
              More goodies for you! Ever wanted to read T.K. Abbott & Ferrar s (1877) introduction to Family 13? Its on the net but scanned page by page in an inconvenient
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 2, 2006
                More goodies for you!
                Ever wanted to read T.K. Abbott & Ferrar's (1877) introduction to
                Family 13? Its on the net but scanned page by page in an inconvenient
                form.

                So I reformated those scans into a fastloading, readable long strip,
                made for your browser. Now you can read it in comfort online, copy
                out what you want.

                http://cadesign.webworkercanada.com/pa/FAM13/family13.html

                --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "ivanyyong" <ivanyyong@...>
                wrote:
                >
                >... but if Google actually follows through on this, it could
                >dramatically
                > speed up the research process. I for one will be glad.
                >
                > Would anyone else agree that it would be useful for everyone to
                >have on a webpage a list
                > of text-critical works with direct links to their associated
                >records on Google Books? It
                > could be a collaborative effort; just email back any suggestions
                >with the associated URL.
                > We can put this list of works on the CSNTM site.
                >
                > Ivan
                >
                >
              • mydogregae01
                Having spent a littel time examining this Google book resource, I am left saddened. This could have been a great asset to TC listers, but most of the
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 4, 2006
                  Having spent a littel time examining this "Google" book resource, I am
                  left saddened. This could have been a great asset to TC listers, but
                  most of the material that is still useful costs, it is not free. Many
                  of the downloads are corrupted. Tattum's Egyptian grammar has about
                  every third page blank, Curtuis's etymology is corrupted, Hug's work
                  costs, and compared to the great resolution of the CSNTM, these
                  resolutions (also often just 1 bit data) are POOR. Vincent's "History
                  of TC.." was okay, but had about 28 duplicated pages at the front,
                  most blank. PDF files can be very very sharp, the free one's here are
                  not. DjVu files are typically equal to the better PDF resolutions, but
                  this site does not use DjVu.

                  There is however, some useful materials! I got several readable Arabic
                  grammars, an Ethiopic grammar, Wilson's Syriac grammar, et al. Did
                  anyone get the English-Armenian dictionary? If so please let me know!
                  My download was not good of this dictionary. Or does anyone know of a
                  digital copy of a good Armenian dictionary??

                  Apparently Google is not quality conscious herein! Maybe they will
                  improve with time, but for the free downloads, I suspect they will not
                  seek to improve. Still, it is a useable resource, but not nearly as
                  powerful as it could/should have been. :-(

                  Mr. Gary S. Dykes
                  www.biblical-data.org
                • David Robert Palmer
                  I should mention where I got my Scrivener pdfs. I do not know who scanned them, but I got them from Mark Langley, pastor of Reformed Baptist Church of Topeka,
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 4, 2006
                    I should mention where I got my Scrivener pdfs.

                    I do not know who scanned them, but I got them from Mark Langley, pastor of
                    Reformed Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. He nowhere restricts
                    re-distribution of them, so I figured since I had the bandwidth to upload
                    them, and webspace, I would offer them for download.

                    I paid $9.99 US each for the CDs, as well as several other great CDs. His
                    shipping service is inexpensive.

                    He offers many other titles surely of interest to members of this
                    list. His whole list is here:

                    http://www.solascripturapublishing.com/
                  • David Robert Palmer
                    I emailed Mark Langley yesterday in order to clarify the provenance of these Scriverner PDFs I have made downloadable from my website. He stated to me by email
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 5, 2006
                      I emailed Mark Langley yesterday in order to clarify the provenance of
                      these Scriverner PDFs I have made downloadable from my website.

                      He stated to me by email today that he is the one who scanned them, from
                      his copy, and that I am free to do with them as I wish, as there is no
                      copyright.

                      David Robert Palmer

                      At 08:53 PM 9/4/2006 -0700, I wrote:

                      >I should mention where I got my Scrivener pdfs.
                      >
                      >I do not know who scanned them, but I got them from Mark Langley, pastor of
                      >Reformed Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. He nowhere restricts
                      >re-distribution of them, so I figured since I had the bandwidth to upload
                      >them, and webspace, I would offer them for download.
                    • goranson@duke.edu
                      The Washington Post announces a major exhibit of early Bible manuscripts: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800424.html
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 9, 2006
                        The Washington Post announces a major exhibit of early Bible manuscripts:
                        http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800424.html

                        best
                        Stephen Goranson
                        http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
                      • yennifmit
                        There will be a special session devoted to the Freer MSS at this year s SBL in Washington, DC, USA. Larry Hurtado organised and edited a book on the Freer MSS
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 9, 2006
                          There will be a special session devoted to the Freer MSS at this
                          year's SBL in Washington, DC, USA. Larry Hurtado organised and edited
                          a book on the Freer MSS which should be published in time for the SBL
                          meeting. I think that Prof. Hurtado had something to do with reminding
                          the Smithsonian that they had one of the oldest gospel codices in the
                          world languishing in their vaults. I believe that he encouraged them
                          to do something on the centenary of the Freer MSS acquisition by
                          Freer. Of course, I might have my wires crossed...

                          On the Washington Post article, I wouldn't have called Tischendorf and
                          the monks of St Catherine's "a group of excavators."

                          Best

                          Tim Finney

                          --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, goranson@... wrote:
                          >
                          > The Washington Post announces a major exhibit of early Bible
                          manuscripts:
                          >
                          http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800424.html
                          >
                          > best
                          > Stephen Goranson
                          > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
                          >
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