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Re: [textualcriticism] Try this...

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  • John McChesney-Young
    Tim Finney had suggested searching Google Books using: My
    Message 1 of 15 , Aug 31, 2006
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      Tim Finney had suggested searching Google Books using:

      << intitle:codex date:1700-1923

      ... 1923 is the current
      copyright-safe date in the USA, I believe. >>

      My thanks to Mr. Finney for the suggested search string.

      At 11:44 AM -0400 8/31/06, Daniel J. Mount wrote:

      << Without disagreeing with Tom Finney, I would note that it might be
      safer to use 1922.

      Everything published in the U.S. to and including in 1922 is now in
      the public domain. Copyright kicks in for some books copyrighted in
      1923.>>

      Google has done their best to restrict access to their digitized
      books still in copyright so that no more than a few pages (at most)
      can be viewed using a single browser within a short period of time.
      However, by a happy coincidence, Google just a day or two ago made
      available an easy way to distinguish between public domain and other
      openly accessible books and copyrighted and therefore restricted
      works, and they've also provided a way to download in their entirety
      many of the PD titles. The use of a date span isn't necessary any
      longer to distinguish the categories.

      If you go to Google books:

      http://books.google.com/

      and select the "Full view books" radio button, your search terms will
      only be applied to books you can see in their entirety. Many of these
      can now be downloaded as image .pdf files, too (not all,
      unfortunately).

      Besides Mr. Finney's "intitle:<title>" trick, you can do other
      refined searches by starting at the Advanced Book Search page, which
      like the non-advanced interface lets you choose between all digitized
      titles and just the unrestricted ones:

      http://books.google.com/advanced_book_search

      Since learning of the new download feature, I've been snooping about
      and discovered that about 120 volumes of the Migne _Patrologia
      Graeca_ are there, although none of the 10 or so I checked could be
      downloaded. There are a few other books of text-critical interest as
      well, and many works in classics and patristics (often in very
      incomplete sets, unfortunately, and often with exceptionally poor
      bibliographical records). Thanks to Mr. Finney's string, I found _A
      Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus with the Received Text of the
      New Testament_ (1864) by Scrivener, which is available as a 10.4MB
      download.

      http://tinyurl.com/lnuna

      Unfortunately, I believe Google restricts access - to what extent I'm
      not sure - to US-based IP addresses, so this might prove to be an
      obstacle to list members in Europe and elsewhere, although it's a
      barrier which I know has been surmounted by at least one UK member of
      another list I'm on.

      John
      --


      *** John McChesney-Young ** panis~at~pacbell.net ** Berkeley,
      California, U.S.A. ***
    • Wieland Willker
      ... In Europe one gets 5 pages of results. Only one TC relevant hit: Codex Montfortianus (Aland MS 61). This MS is interesting for Textus Receptus researchers
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
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        Tim Finney wrote:
        > Go to the Google book search beta (http://books.google.com/)
        > and type this into the search box:
        >
        > intitle:codex date:1700-1923


        John McChesney-Young wrote:
        > Unfortunately, I believe Google restricts access - to what
        > extent I'm not sure - to US-based IP addresses, so this might
        > prove to be an obstacle to list members in Europe and
        > elsewhere


        In Europe one gets 5 pages of results. Only one TC relevant hit:
        Codex Montfortianus (Aland MS 61). This MS is interesting for Textus Receptus researchers for its inclusion of the three
        heavenly witnesses in 1 John 5,7.


        Best wishes
        Wieland
        <><
        ------------------------------------------------
        Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
        mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
        http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
        Textcritical commentary:
        http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
      • goranson@duke.edu
        I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often not just sparse but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with the first year
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
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          I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often not just sparse
          but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with the first year
          of publication, regardless which volume is displayed. Also, the
          combinations of
          scans sometimes cutting off text, or poor quality, or the text-reading
          software,
          results in inaccurate text readings, so the keyword search misses words
          that are
          there and claims words that are not there, upon inspection of the image.
          Sometimes these problems can be worked around. For example, I was looking for
          the earliest uses of words (Egyptology, Archaeology, etc.), uses earlier than
          those in the Oxford English Dictionary (and found them), but sometimes have to
          try plan B. E.g., An obituary of an Egyptologist was cut off, giving only part
          of his name, but on figuring out who was meant, I searched again and found an
          earlier text with Egyptologist, though the keyword search misssed it. And, by
          checking the works of George Gliddon, who travelled P.T. Barnum-like, with an
          Egyptology show, found another keyword-search failed usage, though with the
          wrong book title and date given by google. (OT: Edgar Allen Poe, by the way,
          put Gliddon unflatteringly in his 1845 story "Some Words with a Mummy,"
          wherein
          a mummy in New Orleans is zapped with electricity, comes to life, and
          chats. In
          1850 in Boston, Gliddon assembled a big crowd, with distinguished persons
          attending, to unwrap a mummy, one Gliddin declared, from hieroglyphics,
          to be a
          woman; a princess, the press announced. On unwrapping, it was plainly a man.

          Google books is fascinating.

          Stephen Goranson
          http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
        • ivanyyong
          I ve toyed with this for a day or two now and have seen, in addition to the Migne volumes, works by some of the textual critics of the past, including
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
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            I've toyed with this for a day or two now and have seen, in addition to the Migne volumes,
            works by some of the textual critics of the past, including Tischendorf, Westcott/Hort, etc.
            Unfortunately, not Tischendorf's 8th or Westcott/Hort's 1881, but the possibility is there.

            No doubt there will still be those who prefer their first contact with research sources to be
            on paper in the library, but if Google actually follows through on this, it could dramatically
            speed up the research process. I for one will be glad.

            Would anyone else agree that it would be useful for everyone to have on a webpage a list
            of text-critical works with direct links to their associated records on Google Books? It
            could be a collaborative effort; just email back any suggestions with the associated URL.
            We can put this list of works on the CSNTM site.

            Ivan


            --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, goranson@... wrote:
            >
            > I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often not just sparse
            > but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with the first year
            > of publication, regardless which volume is displayed. Also, the
            > combinations of
            > scans sometimes cutting off text, or poor quality, or the text-reading
            > software,
            > results in inaccurate text readings, so the keyword search misses words
            > that are
            > there and claims words that are not there, upon inspection of the image.
            > Sometimes these problems can be worked around. For example, I was looking for
            > the earliest uses of words (Egyptology, Archaeology, etc.), uses earlier than
            > those in the Oxford English Dictionary (and found them), but sometimes have to
            > try plan B. E.g., An obituary of an Egyptologist was cut off, giving only part
            > of his name, but on figuring out who was meant, I searched again and found an
            > earlier text with Egyptologist, though the keyword search misssed it. And, by
            > checking the works of George Gliddon, who travelled P.T. Barnum-like, with an
            > Egyptology show, found another keyword-search failed usage, though with the
            > wrong book title and date given by google. (OT: Edgar Allen Poe, by the way,
            > put Gliddon unflatteringly in his 1845 story "Some Words with a Mummy,"
            > wherein
            > a mummy in New Orleans is zapped with electricity, comes to life, and
            > chats. In
            > 1850 in Boston, Gliddon assembled a big crowd, with distinguished persons
            > attending, to unwrap a mummy, one Gliddin declared, from hieroglyphics,
            > to be a
            > woman; a princess, the press announced. On unwrapping, it was plainly a man.
            >
            > Google books is fascinating.
            >
            > Stephen Goranson
            > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
            >
          • Roger Pearse
            ... wrote: _A ... I m ... of ... No download is visible to me (in the UK) -- can others see the PDF download? I d be interested to know how UK
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
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              --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, John McChesney-Young
              <panis@...> wrote:
              _A
              > Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus with the Received Text of the
              > New Testament_ (1864) by Scrivener, which is available as a 10.4MB
              > download.
              >
              > http://tinyurl.com/lnuna
              >
              > Unfortunately, I believe Google restricts access - to what extent
              I'm
              > not sure - to US-based IP addresses, so this might prove to be an
              > obstacle to list members in Europe and elsewhere, although it's a
              > barrier which I know has been surmounted by at least one UK member
              of
              > another list I'm on.

              No download is visible to me (in the UK) -- can others see the PDF
              download?

              I'd be interested to know how UK people can avoid this problem.

              All the best,

              Roger Pearse
            • mr.scrivener
              Being constantly frustrated with interference from the clueless, preventing access to freely available and uncopyrighted material, I have gathered such items
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
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                Being constantly frustrated with interference from the clueless,
                preventing access to freely available and uncopyrighted material, I
                have gathered such items myself, and posted a few on the internet:

                For Hort's 8 pages on the Pericope de Adultera, go here:

                http://cadesign.webworkercanada.com/pa/TEXT/Hort.pdf

                For Samuel Davidson' internal evidence on John 8:1-11 go here:

                http://cadesign.webworkercanada.com/pa/TEXT/Davidson.pdf

                And, remember, you're welcome,
                because I was.

                Unusually cheerful today,
                Eeyore

                --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "ivanyyong" <ivanyyong@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I've toyed with this for a day or two now and have seen, in
                addition to the Migne volumes,
                > works by some of the textual critics of the past, including
                Tischendorf, Westcott/Hort, etc.
                > Unfortunately, not Tischendorf's 8th or Westcott/Hort's 1881, but
                the possibility is there.
                >
                > No doubt there will still be those who prefer their first contact
                with research sources to be
                > on paper in the library, but if Google actually follows through on
                this, it could dramatically
                > speed up the research process. I for one will be glad.
                >
                > Would anyone else agree that it would be useful for everyone to
                have on a webpage a list
                > of text-critical works with direct links to their associated
                records on Google Books? It
                > could be a collaborative effort; just email back any suggestions
                with the associated URL.
                > We can put this list of works on the CSNTM site.
                >
                > Ivan
                >
                >
                > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, goranson@ wrote:
                > >
                > > I agree that the google book bibliographic data is poor, often
                not just sparse
                > > but mistaken. For example, serial runs are often all given with
                the first year
                > > of publication, regardless which volume is displayed. Also, the
                > > combinations of
                > > scans sometimes cutting off text, or poor quality, or the text-
                reading
                > > software,
                > > results in inaccurate text readings, so the keyword search misses
                words
                > > that are
                > > there and claims words that are not there, upon inspection of the
                image.
                > > Sometimes these problems can be worked around. For example, I was
                looking for
                > > the earliest uses of words (Egyptology, Archaeology, etc.), uses
                earlier than
                > > those in the Oxford English Dictionary (and found them), but
                sometimes have to
                > > try plan B. E.g., An obituary of an Egyptologist was cut off,
                giving only part
                > > of his name, but on figuring out who was meant, I searched again
                and found an
                > > earlier text with Egyptologist, though the keyword search misssed
                it. And, by
                > > checking the works of George Gliddon, who travelled P.T. Barnum-
                like, with an
                > > Egyptology show, found another keyword-search failed usage,
                though with the
                > > wrong book title and date given by google. (OT: Edgar Allen Poe,
                by the way,
                > > put Gliddon unflatteringly in his 1845 story "Some Words with a
                Mummy,"
                > > wherein
                > > a mummy in New Orleans is zapped with electricity, comes to life,
                and
                > > chats. In
                > > 1850 in Boston, Gliddon assembled a big crowd, with distinguished
                persons
                > > attending, to unwrap a mummy, one Gliddin declared, from
                hieroglyphics,
                > > to be a
                > > woman; a princess, the press announced. On unwrapping, it was
                plainly a man.
                > >
                > > Google books is fascinating.
                > >
                > > Stephen Goranson
                > > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
                > >
                >
              • David Robert Palmer
                Roger, Whether or not you solve the Google problem, you may download the Scrivener Sinaticus collation from my site with this direct link. It is not the
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 1, 2006
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                  Roger,

                  Whether or not you solve the Google problem, you may download the Scrivener
                  Sinaticus collation from my site with this direct link. It is not the
                  Google-marked version. 8.62 MB.

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/CollatCdxSinait.pdf

                  Also, Scrivener's collation of Codex Augiensis, along with 50 other mss.,
                  also a pdf. 30.3 MB.

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ScrivCdxAugiensis.pdf

                  While you are at it, I recommend downloading some Unicode fonts useful for
                  New Testament textual criticism. I did a fair amount of searching and
                  testing of many free Unicode fonts, and these are the best for free in my
                  opinion:

                  Doulos SIL for critical apparatus and entire IPA, 1.1 MB:

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/DoulosSIL.zip

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ttf-sil-doulous.deb

                  GentiumAlt font for Greek, IPA (has the entire IPA except 5 tone bars), and
                  is a decent font just for every-day English/Latin; 9 MB; Debian package
                  much smaller.

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/gentium102.zip

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/gentium102.sit

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ttf-sil-gentium.deb

                  Ezra SIL for Hebrew, this being the clearest free Hebrew font by
                  far. Though Cardo98 is also good for all three, Greek, Hebrew and critical
                  apparatus. 3.3 MB.

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ezrsil20.zip

                  http://www.bibletranslation.ws/down/ezrsil20.tar.gz


                  At 02:49 PM 9/1/2006 +0000, you wrote:

                  >--- In
                  ><mailto:textualcriticism%40yahoogroups.com>textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com,
                  >John McChesney-Young
                  ><panis@...> wrote:
                  >_A
                  > > Full Collation of the Codex Sinaiticus with the Received Text of the
                  > > New Testament_ (1864) by Scrivener, which is available as a 10.4MB
                  > > download.
                  > >
                  > > <http://tinyurl.com/lnuna>http://tinyurl.com/lnuna
                  > >
                  > > Unfortunately, I believe Google restricts access - to what extent
                  >I'm
                  > > not sure - to US-based IP addresses, so this might prove to be an
                  > > obstacle to list members in Europe and elsewhere, although it's a
                  > > barrier which I know has been surmounted by at least one UK member
                  >of
                  > > another list I'm on.
                  >
                  >No download is visible to me (in the UK) -- can others see the PDF
                  >download?
                  >
                  >I'd be interested to know how UK people can avoid this problem.
                  >
                  >All the best,
                  >
                  >Roger Pearse
                  >
                  >
                • mr.scrivener
                  More goodies for you! Ever wanted to read T.K. Abbott & Ferrar s (1877) introduction to Family 13? Its on the net but scanned page by page in an inconvenient
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 2, 2006
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                    More goodies for you!
                    Ever wanted to read T.K. Abbott & Ferrar's (1877) introduction to
                    Family 13? Its on the net but scanned page by page in an inconvenient
                    form.

                    So I reformated those scans into a fastloading, readable long strip,
                    made for your browser. Now you can read it in comfort online, copy
                    out what you want.

                    http://cadesign.webworkercanada.com/pa/FAM13/family13.html

                    --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "ivanyyong" <ivanyyong@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    >... but if Google actually follows through on this, it could
                    >dramatically
                    > speed up the research process. I for one will be glad.
                    >
                    > Would anyone else agree that it would be useful for everyone to
                    >have on a webpage a list
                    > of text-critical works with direct links to their associated
                    >records on Google Books? It
                    > could be a collaborative effort; just email back any suggestions
                    >with the associated URL.
                    > We can put this list of works on the CSNTM site.
                    >
                    > Ivan
                    >
                    >
                  • mydogregae01
                    Having spent a littel time examining this Google book resource, I am left saddened. This could have been a great asset to TC listers, but most of the
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 4, 2006
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                      Having spent a littel time examining this "Google" book resource, I am
                      left saddened. This could have been a great asset to TC listers, but
                      most of the material that is still useful costs, it is not free. Many
                      of the downloads are corrupted. Tattum's Egyptian grammar has about
                      every third page blank, Curtuis's etymology is corrupted, Hug's work
                      costs, and compared to the great resolution of the CSNTM, these
                      resolutions (also often just 1 bit data) are POOR. Vincent's "History
                      of TC.." was okay, but had about 28 duplicated pages at the front,
                      most blank. PDF files can be very very sharp, the free one's here are
                      not. DjVu files are typically equal to the better PDF resolutions, but
                      this site does not use DjVu.

                      There is however, some useful materials! I got several readable Arabic
                      grammars, an Ethiopic grammar, Wilson's Syriac grammar, et al. Did
                      anyone get the English-Armenian dictionary? If so please let me know!
                      My download was not good of this dictionary. Or does anyone know of a
                      digital copy of a good Armenian dictionary??

                      Apparently Google is not quality conscious herein! Maybe they will
                      improve with time, but for the free downloads, I suspect they will not
                      seek to improve. Still, it is a useable resource, but not nearly as
                      powerful as it could/should have been. :-(

                      Mr. Gary S. Dykes
                      www.biblical-data.org
                    • David Robert Palmer
                      I should mention where I got my Scrivener pdfs. I do not know who scanned them, but I got them from Mark Langley, pastor of Reformed Baptist Church of Topeka,
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 4, 2006
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                        I should mention where I got my Scrivener pdfs.

                        I do not know who scanned them, but I got them from Mark Langley, pastor of
                        Reformed Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. He nowhere restricts
                        re-distribution of them, so I figured since I had the bandwidth to upload
                        them, and webspace, I would offer them for download.

                        I paid $9.99 US each for the CDs, as well as several other great CDs. His
                        shipping service is inexpensive.

                        He offers many other titles surely of interest to members of this
                        list. His whole list is here:

                        http://www.solascripturapublishing.com/
                      • David Robert Palmer
                        I emailed Mark Langley yesterday in order to clarify the provenance of these Scriverner PDFs I have made downloadable from my website. He stated to me by email
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 5, 2006
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                          I emailed Mark Langley yesterday in order to clarify the provenance of
                          these Scriverner PDFs I have made downloadable from my website.

                          He stated to me by email today that he is the one who scanned them, from
                          his copy, and that I am free to do with them as I wish, as there is no
                          copyright.

                          David Robert Palmer

                          At 08:53 PM 9/4/2006 -0700, I wrote:

                          >I should mention where I got my Scrivener pdfs.
                          >
                          >I do not know who scanned them, but I got them from Mark Langley, pastor of
                          >Reformed Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas. He nowhere restricts
                          >re-distribution of them, so I figured since I had the bandwidth to upload
                          >them, and webspace, I would offer them for download.
                        • goranson@duke.edu
                          The Washington Post announces a major exhibit of early Bible manuscripts: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800424.html
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 9, 2006
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                            The Washington Post announces a major exhibit of early Bible manuscripts:
                            http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800424.html

                            best
                            Stephen Goranson
                            http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
                          • yennifmit
                            There will be a special session devoted to the Freer MSS at this year s SBL in Washington, DC, USA. Larry Hurtado organised and edited a book on the Freer MSS
                            Message 13 of 15 , Sep 9, 2006
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                              There will be a special session devoted to the Freer MSS at this
                              year's SBL in Washington, DC, USA. Larry Hurtado organised and edited
                              a book on the Freer MSS which should be published in time for the SBL
                              meeting. I think that Prof. Hurtado had something to do with reminding
                              the Smithsonian that they had one of the oldest gospel codices in the
                              world languishing in their vaults. I believe that he encouraged them
                              to do something on the centenary of the Freer MSS acquisition by
                              Freer. Of course, I might have my wires crossed...

                              On the Washington Post article, I wouldn't have called Tischendorf and
                              the monks of St Catherine's "a group of excavators."

                              Best

                              Tim Finney

                              --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, goranson@... wrote:
                              >
                              > The Washington Post announces a major exhibit of early Bible
                              manuscripts:
                              >
                              http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/08/AR2006090800424.html
                              >
                              > best
                              > Stephen Goranson
                              > http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
                              >
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