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Codex Vaticanus

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  • Dr. Martin Heide
    Dear listmembers, There is an interesting article in Questions Liturgiques 86/2005, p. 273-283 by Stphane Verhelst Les Capitules du Codex Vaticanus et les
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 21, 2006
      Dear listmembers,

      There is an interesting article in Questions Liturgiques 86/2005, p. 273-283

      by Stéphane Verhelst

      "Les Capitules du Codex Vaticanus et les péricopes liturgiques de Jérusalem: Le cas de l'Évangile selon Saint Marc"


      The comparison of Georgian lectionaries with the division-markers in the Codex Vaticanus
      (the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus do not correspond to the usual kephalaia, e.g. those printed in NA27)
      led him to the conclusion, that the B/03-sectioning must at least be influenced by lectionary divisions used in Jerusalem in the 4/5 th century,
      because they correspond quite well.

      Interesting observation. Further proof  for an Caesarean origin of B/03 ?




      Martin

    • Peter M. Head
      Dear Martin, Thanks for this, but I can t quite follow the logic. the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus correspond quite well with divisions in Georgian
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 24, 2006
        Dear Martin,

        Thanks for this, but I can't quite follow the logic.

        the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus "correspond
        quite well" with divisions in Georgian lectionaries

        But are the Georgian lectionaries definitely
        connected with 4th/5th century Jerusalem?

        Peter



        At 23:05 21/07/2006, you wrote:
        >Dear listmembers,
        >
        >There is an interesting article in Questions Liturgiques 86/2005, p. 273-283
        >
        >by Stéphane Verhelst
        >
        >"Les Capitules du Codex Vaticanus et les
        >péricopes liturgiques de Jérusalem: Le cas de l'Évangile selon Saint Marc"
        >
        >
        >The comparison of Georgian lectionaries with the
        >division-markers in the Codex Vaticanus
        >(the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus do not
        >correspond to the usual kephalaia, e.g. those printed in NA27)
        >led him to the conclusion, that the
        >B/03-sectioning must at least be influenced by
        >lectionary divisions used in Jerusalem in the 4/5 th century,
        >because they correspond quite well.
        >
        >Interesting observation. Further proof for an Caesarean origin of B/03 ?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >Martin
        >

        Peter M. Head, PhD
        Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
        Tyndale House
        36 Selwyn Gardens
        Cambridge CB3 9BA
        01223 566601
      • Dr. K.Martin Heide
        Dear Peter, Verhelst sees the Georgian lectionaries and l vangeliere et divers tmoins arabes et gorgiens as later representatives of the lectionary-system
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 24, 2006
          Dear Peter,

          Verhelst sees the Georgian lectionaries and "l'évangeliere et divers témoins arabes et géorgiens"
          as later representatives of the lectionary-system which was in use in Jerusalem in the 4th/5th century.
          (the article gives as prove for that e.g. Garitte, "Un index géorgien des lectures évangeliques selon l'ancien rite de Jérusalem" in
          Le Muséon 85(1972), p.337-398.

          Do you have access to Verhelst's article? If not, I can send it to you as adobe-photoshop pictures.

          All the best,

          Martin



          Dr. K. Martin Heide
          Institut für Semitistik
          Institut für Paläoanatomie und Domestikationsforschung
          Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München



          Peter M. Head wrote:

          Dear Martin,

          Thanks for this, but I can't quite follow the logic.

          the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus "correspond
          quite well" with divisions in Georgian lectionaries

          But are the Georgian lectionaries definitely
          connected with 4th/5th century Jerusalem?

          Peter

          At 23:05 21/07/2006, you wrote:
          >Dear listmembers,
          >
          >There is an interesting article in Questions Liturgiques 86/2005, p. 273-283
          >
          >by Stéphane Verhelst
          >
          >"Les Capitules du Codex Vaticanus et les
          >péricopes liturgiques de Jérusalem: Le cas de l'Évangile selon Saint Marc"
          >
          >
          >The comparison of Georgian lectionaries with the
          >division-markers in the Codex Vaticanus
          >(the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus do not
          >correspond to the usual kephalaia, e.g. those printed in NA27)
          >led him to the conclusion, that the
          >B/03-sectioning must at least be influenced by
          >lectionary divisions used in Jerusalem in the 4/5 th century,
          >because they correspond quite well.
          >
          >Interesting observation. Further proof for an Caesarean origin of B/03 ?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >Martin
          >

          Peter M. Head, PhD
          Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
          Tyndale House
          36 Selwyn Gardens
          Cambridge CB3 9BA
          01223 566601


        • Dr. K.Martin Heide
          William Warren wrote: Dr. Heide, thank you for making the recent work by Verhelst known on the textual criticism list. I would appreciate a copy of the article
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 24, 2006
            William Warren wrote:
            Dr. Heide, thank you for making the recent work by Verhelst known on the textual criticism list.  I would appreciate a copy of the article since our library does not subscribe to that journal at this time.  I have a doctoral student working in the area of the lectionary text, so this would be most helpful both to him and to me.  I have photoshop as well as other methods for reading the text, so virtually any format should be useful.  Thank you for your offer on this.  


            paz, 


            Bill Warren

            Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies

            Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek

            New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary



            Dear Bill & others,

            I have a problem here as I learnt only later that am not allowed to make that article public available;
            you can access that article on http://poj.peeters-leuven.be.


            Best wishes,

            Martin

          • Jacob Knee
            Don t know if this is helpful - but there is an Armenian eucharistic lectionary closely connected to Jerusalem in the fifth century. See, John Wilkinson,
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 24, 2006
              Don't know if this is helpful - but there is an Armenian eucharistic
              lectionary closely connected to Jerusalem in the fifth century.

              See, John Wilkinson, 'Egeria's Travels' (Arius & Phillips Ltd: 2002, third
              edition, corrcted) based on

              A. Renoux, "Un manuscrit du vieux Lectionnaire armenien de Jerusalem" (Le
              Museum 76 (1961) 361-85 and 75 (1662) 358-98)

              Best wishes,
              Jacob Knee
              (Cam, Glos.)

              -----Original Message-----
              From: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Peter M. Head
              Sent: 24 July 2006 14:10
              To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Codex Vaticanus

              Dear Martin,

              Thanks for this, but I can't quite follow the logic.

              the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus "correspond quite well" with divisions in
              Georgian lectionaries

              But are the Georgian lectionaries definitely connected with 4th/5th century
              Jerusalem?

              Peter



              At 23:05 21/07/2006, you wrote:
              >Dear listmembers,
              >
              >There is an interesting article in Questions Liturgiques 86/2005, p.
              >273-283
              >
              >by Stéphane Verhelst
              >
              >"Les Capitules du Codex Vaticanus et les péricopes liturgiques de
              >Jérusalem: Le cas de l'Évangile selon Saint Marc"
              >
              >
              >The comparison of Georgian lectionaries with the division-markers in
              >the Codex Vaticanus (the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus do not correspond
              >to the usual kephalaia, e.g. those printed in NA27) led him to the
              >conclusion, that the B/03-sectioning must at least be influenced by
              >lectionary divisions used in Jerusalem in the 4/5 th century, because
              >they correspond quite well.
              >
              >Interesting observation. Further proof for an Caesarean origin of B/03 ?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >Martin
              >

              Peter M. Head, PhD
              Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament Tyndale House
              36 Selwyn Gardens
              Cambridge CB3 9BA
              01223 566601




              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • Kevin P. Edgecomb
              Dear Peter, Yes, they do. The Georgian Lectionary system, like the Armenian, are both directly based upon the lectionary of Jerusalem. In fact, both are,
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 24, 2006
                Dear Peter,
                Yes, they do. The Georgian Lectionary system, like the Armenian, are both directly based upon the lectionary of Jerusalem. In fact, both are, aside from some minor insertions of a few saints' days, snapshots of usage in Jerusalem, the Armenian for the early 5th century and the Georgian for around 700 AD. This is quite obvious from the descriptions of liturgical services at the various historical churches and sites in and around Jerusalem.

                I've translated Tarchnischvili's edition of the Georgian lectionary here:
                http://www.bombaxo.com/georgian.html

                An early Armenian lectionary by Coneybeare:
                http://www.bombaxo.com/conybeare.html

                A translation from Renoux' edition of the Armenian lectionary:
                http://www.bombaxo.com/renoux.html

                Please note that these presentations of the lectionaries were focused more on the structure of the lectionary and the litrgical services/locations described therein, not the Biblical texts.

                Regards,
                Kevin P. Edgecomb
                Berkeley, California

                ---- <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Martin,
                >
                > Thanks for this, but I can't quite follow the logic.
                >
                > the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus "correspond
                > quite well" with divisions in Georgian lectionaries
                >
                > But are the Georgian lectionaries definitely
                > connected with 4th/5th century Jerusalem?
                >
                > Peter
                >
                >
                >
                > At 23:05 21/07/2006, you wrote:
                > >Dear listmembers,
                > >
                > >There is an interesting article in Questions Liturgiques 86/2005, p. 273-283
                > >
                > >by Stéphane Verhelst
                > >
                > >"Les Capitules du Codex Vaticanus et les
                > >péricopes liturgiques de Jérusalem: Le cas de l'Évangile selon Saint Marc"
                > >
                > >
                > >The comparison of Georgian lectionaries with the
                > >division-markers in the Codex Vaticanus
                > >(the kephalaia of Codex Vaticanus do not
                > >correspond to the usual kephalaia, e.g. those printed in NA27)
                > >led him to the conclusion, that the
                > >B/03-sectioning must at least be influenced by
                > >lectionary divisions used in Jerusalem in the 4/5 th century,
                > >because they correspond quite well.
                > >
                > >Interesting observation. Further proof for an Caesarean origin of B/03 ?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >Martin
                > >
                >
                > Peter M. Head, PhD
                > Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
                > Tyndale House
                > 36 Selwyn Gardens
                > Cambridge CB3 9BA
                > 01223 566601
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Dr. K.Martin Heide
                Dear Listmembers, what would you recommend as the most detailed and thorough collation (not edition) of the Codex Vaticanus (New Testament)? Greetings, MHeide
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 12, 2006
                  Dear Listmembers,

                  what would you recommend as the most detailed and thorough
                  collation (not edition) of the Codex Vaticanus (New Testament)?


                  Greetings,

                  MHeide
                • Alvio
                  I need help. I am editing a Bibleworks module with Codex Vaticanus 1209. I already inserted in this module Vercellone s scans, but there are not good images. I
                  Message 8 of 17 , Oct 2, 2006
                    I need help.
                    I am editing a Bibleworks module with Codex Vaticanus 1209.
                    I already inserted in this module Vercellone's scans, but there are
                    not good images.
                    I am searching for Codex Vaticanus color facsimile to insert in this
                    module.

                    There is anyone that can be able to help me?

                    Thanks pasquale

                    Exscuse me for bad English.
                  • Daniel B. Wallace
                    If you can arrange to have sent to CSNTM good photos of Vaticanus that are beyond copyright permission (such as Bibliorum S.S. Graecorum: Codex Vaticanus 1209
                    Message 9 of 17 , Oct 3, 2006
                      If you can arrange to have sent to CSNTM good photos of Vaticanus that are beyond copyright permission (such as Bibliorum S.S. Graecorum:
                      Codex Vaticanus 1209 <Cod. B.>
                      Denuo phototypice expressus jussu et cura praedidum Bibliothecae Vaticanae
                      Erschienen: Mediolani
                      Series: Codices e Vaticanis selecti phototypice expressi; 4
                      Pars 2. Testamentum novum
                      Published: 1904),

                      then CSNTM staff will photograph the images with hi-res cameras. BibleWorks will get a copy and we will make a copy available on line.

                      Sincerely,

                      Daniel B. Wallace
                      Executive Director
                      Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts


                      ----- Start Original Message -----
                      Sent: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 20:51:14 -0000
                      From: "Alvio" <alvio56@...>
                      To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [textualcriticism] Codex Vaticanus

                      > I need help.
                      > I am editing a Bibleworks module with Codex Vaticanus 1209.
                      > I already inserted in this module Vercellone's scans, but there are
                      > not good images.
                      > I am searching for Codex Vaticanus color facsimile to insert in this
                      > module.
                      >
                      > There is anyone that can be able to help me?
                      >
                      > Thanks pasquale
                      >
                      > Exscuse me for bad English.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      ----- End Original Message -----
                    • Austin Alexander
                      Dr. Wallace, I don t know if this would help, but my friend did a WorldCat search and found that the University of Pennsylvania may have volume 2:
                      Message 10 of 17 , Oct 4, 2006
                        Dr. Wallace,

                        I don't know if this would help, but my friend did a WorldCat search and found that the University of Pennsylvania may have volume 2:
                        http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/oclc/63640869


                        Perhaps they would allow CSNTM to borrow their copy.

                        Sincerely,

                        Austin 

                        --
                        Austin J. Alexander, B.A. (CSU)
                        M.A.B.L., candidate, (GCTS)
                        austinjalexander@...
                        http://austinjalexander.googlepages.com/
                      • Daniel B. Wallace
                        Thanks for sending the info on the facsimile of Vaticanus at UPenn. Generally speaking, unless we have direct contact with a school already initiated (by the
                        Message 11 of 17 , Oct 4, 2006
                          Thanks for sending the info on the facsimile of Vaticanus at UPenn. Generally speaking, unless we have direct contact with a school already initiated (by the tc-list, for example), it's fairly difficult to get it to release its facsimiles to CSNTM. Some universities, in fact, will simply not allow outsiders to take photographs of any portion of their collection, even if done for free and the third party gives DVDs to the institute! This is one of the difficulties that CSNTM has had: getting permission, especially from American universities. One Ivy League school wanted to outsource the digital photography of their four Greek New Testament manuscripts, then charge CSNTM $12,000 for the photos--even after we said we would come and shoot the MSS at no charge to them. And the quality of the photos would be approximately one fourth as good as what we can produce.

                          I would like to solicit the aid of the tc-listers for getting permissions to CSNTM. I will be taking my sabbatical in two years and can spend virtually the entire year traveling and photographing manuscripts. If you have contacts with institutes that possess some of our sacred Christian documents, and feel that you can have an influence on the institutes, please contact me off-list. Since our goal is to post every image that we are allowed to post (and to make available for loan all other images), what CSNTM is doing will be of immediate service to the academic community. It's a win-win situation, but we could use your help in getting some of these projects going. We already have several in the hopper, but are trying to make plans for the next three years right now.

                          As for UPenn, if any on the list are on faculty there, and if you are interested in helping us, we would appreciate it if you would pave the way for us to get the Vaticanus facsimile to photograph.

                          Sincerely,

                          Daniel B. Wallace
                          Executive Director
                          Center for the Study of New Testament Manuscripts

                          ----- Start Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 13:20:44 -0400
                          From: "Austin Alexander" <austinjalexander@...>
                          To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Codex Vaticanus

                          > Dr. Wallace,
                          >
                          > I don't know if this would help, but my friend did a WorldCat search and
                          > found that the University of Pennsylvania may have volume 2:
                          > http://www.worldcatlibraries.org/oclc/63640869
                          >
                          > Perhaps they would allow CSNTM to borrow their copy.
                          >
                          > Sincerely,
                          >
                          > Austin
                          > --
                          > Austin J. Alexander, B.A. (CSU)
                          > M.A.B.L., candidate, (GCTS)
                          > austinjalexander@...
                          > http://austinjalexander.googlepages.com/

                          ----- End Original Message -----
                        • rodrigoarthurmelo
                          Please, does someone have the real facsimile of Codex Vaticanus? I need it for a home work
                          Message 12 of 17 , Oct 19, 2015

                            Please, does someone have the real facsimile of Codex Vaticanus? I need it for a home work

                          • James Snapp
                            Rodrigo, First, Yahoo Neo must be destroyed. Second, the facsimile of Vaticanus is presently somewhat superfluous, since high-quality digital images of the
                            Message 13 of 17 , Oct 20, 2015
                              Rodrigo, 

                              First, Yahoo Neo must be destroyed.
                              Second, the facsimile of Vaticanus is presently somewhat superfluous, since high-quality digital images of the manuscript are available online.
                              Just click the embedded link for "Codex Vaticanus (B)" at 
                              http://www.thetextofthegospels.com/2015/02/major-early-uncials-of-gospels-online.html
                              and you should go straight to the images of B at the Vatican Library.

                              Note that the Vatican Library's copyright policy on images is strict.

                              Yours in Christ,

                              James Snapp, Jr.


                              On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:55 PM, rodrigoarthur@... [textualcriticism] <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                               

                              Please, does someone have the real facsimile of Codex Vaticanus? I need it for a home work


                            • Kent Clarke
                              Hi Rodrigo: I have it. What can I help you with? Kind Regards; Kent Kent D. Clarke (Ph.D. Bristol) Chair of the Religious Studies Department B.F. Westcott
                              Message 14 of 17 , Oct 20, 2015
                                Hi Rodrigo:

                                I have it. What can I help you with?

                                Kind Regards;

                                Kent

                                Kent D. Clarke (Ph.D. Bristol)

                                Chair of the Religious Studies Department

                                B.F. Westcott Professor of New Testament

                                Textual Criticism, Greek Languages, and Hermeneutics

                                Trinity Western University

                                Seal Kap House

                                7600 Glover Road

                                Langley, BC

                                V2Y 1Y1 Canada

                                (604) 513-2121 (Ext. 3116)


                                From: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com [textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com]
                                Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 6:55 PM
                                To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [textualcriticism] Codex Vaticanus

                                 

                                Please, does someone have the real facsimile of Codex Vaticanus? I need it for a home work

                              • Jack Kilmon
                                I have it but it may be too large to e-mail. You can find it at http://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.gr.1209 Jack From: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                Message 15 of 17 , Oct 20, 2015

                                  I have it but it may be too large to e-mail. You can find it at http://digi.vatlib.it/view/MSS_Vat.gr.1209

                                   

                                  Jack

                                   

                                  From: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com [mailto:textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com]
                                  Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 8:55 PM
                                  To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: [textualcriticism] Codex Vaticanus

                                   




                                  Please, does someone have the real facsimile of Codex Vaticanus? I need it for a home work







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                                • Connie Butterfield
                                  I have it.
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Oct 21, 2015
                                    I have it.
                                  • rodrigoarthurmelo
                                    Yes, thank you. Can you upload i for me? May be to onedrive or google drive. Im studying theology and need do a study on the Codex Vaticanus, but i prefer the
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Oct 24, 2015
                                      Yes, thank you. Can you upload i for me? May be to onedrive or google drive. Im studying theology and need do a study on the Codex Vaticanus, but i prefer the real facsimile. I found only pseudo-facsimiles. Please, help me. 
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