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Re: Scribal peculiarities

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  • Wieland Willker
    ... I think in Vaticanus it represents a correction. In Vaticanus also exists a wavy sign (vertical ~) which might indicate an explanation of some kind:
    Message 1 of 26 , Jun 8, 2006
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      Tommy Wasserman wrote:
      > 2) In some minuscule MSS there is a sign in the margin, •/•,
      > plus a reading.

      I think in Vaticanus it represents a correction.

      In Vaticanus also exists a wavy sign (vertical ~) which might indicate an explanation of some kind:
      http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Vaticanus/dittographies.html
      (image on the right)

      Just for completeness sake, in Vaticanus also another sign appears once:
      http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~wie/Vaticanus/wordorder.html


      Best wishes
      Wieland
      <><
      ------------------------------------------------
      Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
      mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
      Textcritical commentary:
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
    • Tommy Wasserman
      ... Thank you mr. scrivener (is that your real name?). Sorry I was not clear - the MS in question is a medieval Greek continuous-text minuscule with no other
      Message 2 of 26 , Jun 8, 2006
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        mr.scrivener wrote:

        >
        > Greetings Mr Wasserman:
        >
        > I have two leads for you:
        >
        > (1) the Jude inscription looks painfully like the Egyptian practice
        > found in 'Christian Magic' amulets and small scrolls.

        Thank you mr. scrivener (is that your real name?). Sorry I was not
        clear - the MS in question is a medieval Greek continuous-text
        minuscule with no other signs of "magic" use whatsoever, a subject of
        which I am otherwise quite familiar with.

        > I suggest you
        >
        > (2) Studying Vaticanus I have come to the conclusion that the 'NT'
        > Obelisk (the one you describe is a lemniscus =dot/dot)has a variety
        > of uses but mostly as a generic indicator of an accidental omission
        > corrected in the margin. there is a good introduction to the changes
        > in meaning over periods and places here:

        I found the following information about the symbol in "Transformed Into
        His Image" in Grace Theological Journal 2.2 (Fall 1981) 230-31 which
        made me hesitat to equal the function to that in the early uncials:

        A partial explanation of the symbol is given by Diogenes
        Laertius (iii, 66). He names and describes the use of various signs in a
        text of Plato; in regard to this sign he says: "the obelos
        periestigmenos is for random
        rejections (of passages)." Nowhere has ↓ been found among literary
        papyri of Classical
        authors.

        The use of both signs, however, is frequent in Biblical and
        Christian papyri. Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus demonstrate
        the frequent use of both signs, sometimes together and sometimes
        separately, but always where a correction has been made. When
        used together, ↓ stands in the margin and •/•. marks the precise place
        in
        the line for the correction.

        Henry A. Sanders notes the use of •/•. in some biblical manuscripts
        dated to the fourth or early fifth century, marking the location
        of the omission and then repeated in the margin giving the words to
        be supplied.

        An exact parallel to P.Rob. inv. 28 is described in P. Tura, where ↓
        and •/•. stand together in the margin at the beginning of the part to be
        supplied.

        A somewhat later function of •/• is described by Isidore (A.D. 602-
        36), bishop of Seville (1.21): Lemniscus, id est, virgula inter geminos
        punctos jacens, opponitur in his locis, quae sacrae Scripturae
        interpretes
        eadem sensu, sed diversis sermonibus transtulerent, "The
        lemniscus, that is a stick lying between two points, is placed in those
        places which the interpreters of Holy Scriptures transcribe in the
        same sense, but with different expressions."

        end of citation

        With regards

        Tommy Wasserman
        Centre for Theology and Religious Studies
        Lund University
        Sweden
      • Timothy Arthur Brown
        Hello, The claims that Woodard makes are so numerous that a full response would require more attention than his ideas deserve. To answer you generally, some
        Message 3 of 26 , Jun 8, 2006
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          Hello,

          The claims that Woodard makes are so numerous that a full response would require more attention than his ideas deserve.  To answer you generally, some of what Woodard is seeing is offset, that is, ink which has cross-printed from the facing page; in other instances he is reading things into mere stains in the parchment; sometimes he's attributing special significance to the quite typical scribal decorations of a colophon; and he even finds minute hidden messages in the ragged shapes of letters that have suffered the effects of time and use.

          I hope it is clear that Bruce Prior and I investigated Woodard's claims because we feel responsible to consult secondary sources in our work and, for the sake of thoroughness, needed to make a careful, open-minded examination of Woodard's work as well.  As it turns out, Woodard's work proved unworthy of the time we invested in it.

          If you would like more detail, you could purchase Woodard's book (though I dislike the idea of giving him undue encouragement) and then purchase the new set of images which will hopefully be made available before the end of the year.  This will enable you to examine his claims yourself.

          Yours sincerely,

          T. A. Brown
          Franconia, New Hampshire  USA



          mr.scrivener wrote:

          Dear Mr. Brown:

          Thank you for your prompt reply:
          However, you seem to have left an ambiguity -
          Mr Woodward's ideas may be without merit,
          but are the marks just dust specks, imperfections in the photos,
          or actual scribal scribbles, whatever their meaning?
          Could you clarify?

          Still perplexed,
          Eeyore.

          --- In textualcriticism@ yahoogroups. com, Timothy Arthur Brown
          <t.a.brown@. ..> wrote:
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          > Bruce Prior and I are in the process of finishing up pre-press work
          on
          > the Freer Gospels transcription now. You can expect to see an
          edition
          > available at this year's SBL annual meeting in Washington, DC. The
          new
          > images I alluded to are, as far as I know, still intended for
          public
          > release this November as well. The newest images are those taken
          by the
          > Freer/Sackler photography department and I think it's safe to
          assume
          > that this image library will be published by the Freer/Sackler
          Gallery
          > itself.
          >
          > And now concerning Woodard's "Kodex W". . . Bruce and I first
          learned of
          > Woodard's theories a couple of years ago. The claims are wild, but
          we
          > agreed that such claims, regardless how unbelievable, ought not be
          > automatically rejected simply because they do not conform to our
          current
          > understanding of the manuscript. We had at our disposal the tools
          and
          > access necessary to examine these claims, so we decided to do so.
          We
          > were in contact with Lee Woodard by phone and by e-mail and we each
          had
          > a copy of his book. Becoming thus fully informed of his claims, we
          > examined high resolution images of the relevant parts of the codex
          and
          > were unable to substantiate any of Woodard's theories. Since this
          > examination, I have had opportunity to access the original at the
          Freer
          > Gallery and must still conclude that Woodard's ideas are without
          merit.
          >
          > Sincerely,
          >
          > T. A. Brown
          > Franconia, New Hampshire USA
          >
          >
          >
          > mr.scrivener wrote:
          >
          > > ------------ --------
          > > Dear Mr. Brown:
          > >
          > > In this message (last year), you mentioned publishing
          transcriptions
          > > of Codex W, as well as a possible new Facsimile edition available
          on
          > > disk by the '2006 SBL Meetings..'. Well, its June 2006, and I was
          > > wondering how your projects are coming along.
          > >
          > > ------------ --------- -
          > > Also, is anyone aware of the following website, which claims to
          have
          > > discovered 'seals' or 'signatures' of the scribes who wrote Codex
          W
          > > (the Gospel mss)?
          > >
          > > http://www.washingt on-codex. org/woodard_ kodex_article_ 1.htm
          > > <http://www.washingt on-codex. org/woodard_ kodex_article_ 1.htm>
          > >
          > > Although the site makes many wild claims, and dates the Gospel
          Codex
          > > W too early, surely just the existance of these 'seals' at the
          > > beginning and end of each gospel in the codex require a thorough
          > > investigation and proper explanation.
          > >
          > > Any ideas?
          > >
          > > Curiosity is killing me here...
          > > Eeyore
          > >
          > > ------------ --------- ---------
          >


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