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Re: [textualcriticism] Cheltenham canon

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  • George F Somsel
    I only found one small paragraph in an article in the ABD under Canon (New Testament) The so-called Cheltenham Canon, a further list of authoritative
    Message 1 of 8 , May 31 3:31 AM
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      I only found one small paragraph in an article in the ABD under "Canon (New Testament)"
       
      The so-called Cheltenham Canon, a further list of authoritative Christian books, probably was drawn up in North Africa near the mid-4th century. It offers 24 books, with the claim that “our fathers approved that these books are canonical and that the men of old have said this”: four gospels, 13 letters of Paul, Acts, Revelation, 1–3 John, and 1–2 Peter. Thus James, Jude, and Hebrews lack.
       
      Freedman, D. N. (1996, c1992). The Anchor Bible Dictionary (1:856). New York: Doubleday.


      "Larry J. Swain" <theswain@...> wrote:
      I've a problem I'm hoping the list can help with.  I'm away from my
      own library at the moment and away from my institution, but still
      trying to work the best I can.  I need to know the origin and
      provenance of the manuscript that Theodor Mommsen discovered that
      contains a late fourth century list of the books of the Bible (OT,
      then NT) and the works of Cyprian.  The manuscript was a 10th century
      production, but what I need to know is where it was produced.

      Regrettably searches on google, googleprint, Amazon, JSTOR, Project
      Muse, and the like has turned up a great deal of interesting
      information, but not the one piece of information I need.

      Metzger's book on Canon talks about it, I recall, and there are
      probably others. 

      Thanks in advance!

      Larry Swain









      george
      gfsomsel
      _________


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    • goranson@duke.edu
      ... [....] ... I suppose this isn t quite what you ask, but perhaps will be a step towards it. According to Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (3rd ed.
      Message 2 of 8 , May 31 4:17 AM
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        Quoting "Larry J. Swain" <theswain@...>:

        > I've a problem I'm hoping the list can help with. I'm away from my
        > own library at the moment and away from my institution, but still
        > trying to work the best I can. I need to know the origin and
        > provenance of the manuscript that Theodor Mommsen discovered that
        > contains a late fourth century list of the books of the Bible (OT,
        > then NT) and the works of Cyprian. The manuscript was a 10th century
        > production, but what I need to know is where it was produced.
        [....]
        > Metzger's book on Canon talks about it, I recall, and there are
        > probably others.
        >
        > Thanks in advance!
        >
        > Larry Swain

        I suppose this isn't quite what you ask, but perhaps will be a step towards it.
        According to Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church (3rd ed. 1997),
        "Mommsen
        List":
        "...The list dates from the year 359...It is generally agreed that the list is
        of W. origin. The MS is now in the Biblioteca Nazionale at Rome, Fondo
        Vittorio
        Emanuele 1235."
        Bibliography besides Mommsen Hermes 21 (1886) 142-56 : W. Sanday,
        Studia Bblica
        et Ecclesiastica 3.6 (1891) 217-325.

        Apparently Mommsen had only a brief time to inspect the MS.

        More recently, perhaps relevant:
        Title: Aux origines de la fixation du canon: scriptoria, listes et titres: le
        Vaticanus et la sichométrie de Mommsen
        Author(s): Bogaert, Pierre-Maurice
        Source: Biblical canons p 153-176. Leuven : Leuven University Press, 2003
        ATLA0001388130
        Physical Description: tables
        ISBN: 9042911549
        287723651X
        Publication Year: 2003
        Language: French
        Subjects: Bible--Manuscripts--Codex Vaticanus; Bible (OT) Versions, Greek; Bible
        (OT)--Canon; Bible (NT)--Relation to Old Testament; Stichometry
        General Note: Paper presented at the 50th Colloquium Biblicum Lovaniense,
        Louvain, Jl 25-27 2001.

        Stephen Goranson
        http://www.duke.edu/~goranson
      • William Warren
        You re referring to the Muratorian Fragment, which is a 7th or 8th c. document, but is identified with an original that has been dated in either the late
        Message 3 of 8 , May 31 5:10 AM
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          You're referring to the Muratorian Fragment, which is a 7th or 8th c.
          document, but is identified with an "original" that has been dated in
          either the late second (Westcott and Hort, Metzger, von Campenhausen,
          Everett Ferguson, many others) or fourth century (Sundberg and Mark
          Hahneman especially, but several others as well such as Lee
          McDonald). According to Metzger (Canon), the list is part of an 8th
          c. codex that was found at the monastery at Bobbio and is currently
          in Milan at the Ambrosian Library (MS J. 101 sup.). The codex
          "contains a collection of several theological treatises of three
          Church Fathers of the fourth and fifth centuries (Eucherius, Ambrose,
          and Chrysostom), concluding with five early Christian
          creeds" (Metzger, Canon, p. 192). Metzger notes that four mss. (11th
          and 12th c.) of Paul's Epistles discovered at Monte Cassino also
          contain small portions of the same text.

          paz,

          Bill Warren
          Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
          Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
          New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary


          On May 30, 2006, at 4:51 PM, Larry J. Swain wrote:

          > I've a problem I'm hoping the list can help with. I'm away from my
          > own library at the moment and away from my institution, but still
          > trying to work the best I can. I need to know the origin and
          > provenance of the manuscript that Theodor Mommsen discovered that
          > contains a late fourth century list of the books of the Bible (OT,
          > then NT) and the works of Cyprian. The manuscript was a 10th century
          > production, but what I need to know is where it was produced.
          >
          > Regrettably searches on google, googleprint, Amazon, JSTOR, Project
          > Muse, and the like has turned up a great deal of interesting
          > information, but not the one piece of information I need.
          >
          > Metzger's book on Canon talks about it, I recall, and there are
          > probably others.
          >
          > Thanks in advance!
          >
          > Larry Swain
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Harold P. Scanlin
          ... Hahneman, in /The Muratorian Fragment/, pp. 145-6, says the author was not writing in Rome, but he knew well the custom of trading there. Mahnemann
          Message 4 of 8 , May 31 5:20 AM
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            Larry J. Swain wrote:
            I've a problem I'm hoping the list can help with.  I'm away from my
            own library at the moment and away from my institution, but still
            trying to work the best I can.  I need to know the origin and
            provenance of the manuscript that Theodor Mommsen discovered that
            contains a late fourth century list of the books of the Bible (OT,
            then NT) and the works of Cyprian.  The manuscript was a 10th century
            production, but what I need to know is where it was produced.

            Regrettably searches on google, googleprint, Amazon, JSTOR, Project
            Muse, and the like has turned up a great deal of interesting
            information, but not the one piece of information I need.

            Metzger's book on Canon talks about it, I recall, and there are
            probably others. 

            Thanks in advance!

            Larry Swain

            Hahneman, in The Muratorian Fragment, pp. 145-6, says the author was "not writing in Rome, but he knew well the custom of trading there." Mahnemann concludes, "this catalogue would represent the easrliest knowsn list of North Africa, and the Western church."

            Here's an image of page 146.

            [If image does not display in your email, refer to the book itself.]

            Harold P. Scanlin
          • William Warren
            Larry, sorry about moving to the Muratorian Fragment on this rather than Mommsen. Too rapid a response to something I d been using not too long ago in a class
            Message 5 of 8 , May 31 7:48 AM
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              Larry, sorry about moving to the Muratorian Fragment on this rather than Mommsen.  Too rapid a response to something I'd been using not too long ago in a class this past semester. :)  Of course the Mommsen list is from a 10th c. ms.  If Stephen Goranson is correct (which he may well be since the bibliographic info he gave is more recent than Metzger's work), then the info in Metzger (Canon) that the ms is in Cheltenham, England, in the Phillipps Collection is out of date.  Metzger notes that "a copy of the same canon was found inserted in a ninth-century codex in the library at St. Gall (no. 133); it is published in Miscellanea Cassinese (Montecassino, 1897), pp. 6-7" (Metzger, Canon, p. 231).  

              paz, 

              Bill Warren
              Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
              Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
              New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary


              On May 31, 2006, at 7:10 AM, William Warren wrote:

              You're referring to the Muratorian Fragment, which is a 7th or 8th c.  
              document, but is identified with an "original" that has been dated in  
              either the late second (Westcott and Hort, Metzger, von Campenhausen,  
              Everett Ferguson, many others) or fourth century (Sundberg and Mark  
              Hahneman especially, but several others as well such as Lee  
              McDonald).  According to Metzger (Canon), the list is part of an 8th  
              c. codex that was found at the monastery at Bobbio and is currently  
              in Milan at the Ambrosian Library (MS J. 101 sup.).  The codex  
              "contains a collection of several theological treatises of three  
              Church Fathers of the fourth and fifth centuries (Eucherius, Ambrose,  
              and Chrysostom), concluding with five early Christian  
              creeds" (Metzger, Canon, p. 192).  Metzger notes that four mss. (11th  
              and 12th c.) of Paul's Epistles discovered at Monte Cassino also  
              contain small portions of the same text.

              paz,

              Bill Warren
              Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
              Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
              New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary


              On May 30, 2006, at 4:51 PM, Larry J. Swain wrote:

              I've a problem I'm hoping the list can help with.  I'm away from my
              own library at the moment and away from my institution, but still
              trying to work the best I can.  I need to know the origin and
              provenance of the manuscript that Theodor Mommsen discovered that
              contains a late fourth century list of the books of the Bible (OT,
              then NT) and the works of Cyprian.  The manuscript was a 10th century
              production, but what I need to know is where it was produced.

              Regrettably searches on google, googleprint, Amazon, JSTOR, Project
              Muse, and the like has turned up a great deal of interesting
              information, but not the one piece of information I need.

              Metzger's book on Canon talks about it, I recall, and there are
              probably others.

              Thanks in advance!

              Larry Swain








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            • sarban
              ... From: Larry J. Swain To: Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:51 PM Subject: [textualcriticism]
              Message 6 of 8 , May 31 10:44 AM
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Larry J. Swain" <theswain@...>
                To: <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:51 PM
                Subject: [textualcriticism] Cheltenham canon


                > I've a problem I'm hoping the list can help with. I'm away from my
                > own library at the moment and away from my institution, but still
                > trying to work the best I can. I need to know the origin and
                > provenance of the manuscript that Theodor Mommsen discovered that
                > contains a late fourth century list of the books of the Bible (OT,
                > then NT) and the works of Cyprian. The manuscript was a 10th century
                > production, but what I need to know is where it was produced.
                >
                Metzger's book on the canon contains (as well as information
                already provided by other list members) an interesting footnote on
                page 231 about another copy of the 'Cheltenham Canon'

                "Subsequently a copy of the same canon was found inserted in a
                ninth-century codex in the library at St Gall (no. 133) it is published
                in Miscellanea Cassinese (Montecassino 1897) pp 6-7."

                Andrew Criddle
              • Larry Swain
                Thanks to all who responded. Just to clarify, what I m after is information on the transmission history of the manuscript(s) in which the list occurs. Since
                Message 7 of 8 , May 31 11:02 AM
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                  Thanks to all who responded. Just to clarify, what I'm after is information on the transmission history of the manuscript(s) in which the list occurs. Since sending my message I have found the following volumes:

                  The catalogues of manuscripts & printed books of Sir Thomas Phillipps; their composition and distribution.

                  The dispersal of the Phillipps Library

                  Both of these are by A.N.L. Munby and I've now ordered them via my library. Hopefully they'll have some info for me. And Stephen has given me the current library and shelf mark, so I'm off to see if I can find more info via that route.

                  Someone mentioned too the ninth century St. Gall mss that contains the list too (both the Cheltenham and St. Gall btw contain a list of Cyprian's works too)--both drawing on the same exemplar but not dependent on each other. I'm interested in the English one because I'm working on an English author who writes on the canon, and one footnote of a question is whether this list was in England before or during his time and what, if any, influence the list may have had.

                  Again, thanks to all who have responded and if you happen to encounter any more clues or info I'd be happy to receive it. Is this a great list or what?

                  Many Thanks,

                  Larry Swain



                  > Larry, sorry about moving to the Muratorian Fragment on this rather
                  > than Mommsen. Too rapid a response to something I'd been using
                  > not too long ago in a class this past semester. :) Of course the
                  > Mommsen list is from a 10th c. ms. If Stephen Goranson is correct
                  > (which he may well be since the bibliographic info he gave is more
                  > recent than Metzger's work), then the info in Metzger (Canon) that
                  > the ms is in Cheltenham, England, in the Phillipps Collection is
                  > out of date. Metzger notes that "a copy of the same canon was
                  > found inserted in a ninth-century codex in the library at St. Gall
                  > (no. 133); it is published in Miscellanea Cassinese (Montecassino,
                  > 1897), pp. 6-7" (Metzger, Canon, p. 231).
                  >
                  > paz,
                  >
                  > Bill Warren
                  > Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
                  > Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
                  > New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
                  >
                  >
                  > On May 31, 2006, at 7:10 AM, William Warren wrote:
                  >
                  > > You're referring to the Muratorian Fragment, which is a 7th or 8th c.
                  > > document, but is identified with an "original" that has been dated in
                  > > either the late second (Westcott and Hort, Metzger, von Campenhausen,
                  > > Everett Ferguson, many others) or fourth century (Sundberg and Mark
                  > > Hahneman especially, but several others as well such as Lee
                  > > McDonald). According to Metzger (Canon), the list is part of an 8th
                  > > c. codex that was found at the monastery at Bobbio and is currently
                  > > in Milan at the Ambrosian Library (MS J. 101 sup.). The codex
                  > > "contains a collection of several theological treatises of three
                  > > Church Fathers of the fourth and fifth centuries (Eucherius, Ambrose,
                  > > and Chrysostom), concluding with five early Christian
                  > > creeds" (Metzger, Canon, p. 192). Metzger notes that four mss. (11th
                  > > and 12th c.) of Paul's Epistles discovered at Monte Cassino also
                  > > contain small portions of the same text.
                  > >
                  > > paz,
                  > >
                  > > Bill Warren
                  > > Director of the Center for New Testament Textual Studies
                  > > Landrum P. Leavell, II, Professor of New Testament and Greek
                  > > New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > On May 30, 2006, at 4:51 PM, Larry J. Swain wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> I've a problem I'm hoping the list can help with. I'm away from my
                  > >> own library at the moment and away from my institution, but still
                  > >> trying to work the best I can. I need to know the origin and
                  > >> provenance of the manuscript that Theodor Mommsen discovered that
                  > >> contains a late fourth century list of the books of the Bible (OT,
                  > >> then NT) and the works of Cyprian. The manuscript was a 10th century
                  > >> production, but what I need to know is where it was produced.
                  > >>
                  > >> Regrettably searches on google, googleprint, Amazon, JSTOR, Project
                  > >> Muse, and the like has turned up a great deal of interesting
                  > >> information, but not the one piece of information I need.
                  > >>
                  > >> Metzger's book on Canon talks about it, I recall, and there are
                  > >> probably others.
                  > >>
                  > >> Thanks in advance!
                  > >>
                  > >> Larry Swain
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
                  > >> ~-->
                  > >> <FONT COLOR="#000099">Protect your PC from spy ware with award
                  > >> winning anti spy technology. It's free.
                  > >> </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/
                  > >> GuTslB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
                  > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  > >> ~->
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- ~-->
                  > > <FONT COLOR="#000099">Protect your PC from spy ware with award
                  > > winning anti spy technology. It's free.
                  > > </FONT><A HREF="http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/
                  > > GuTslB/TM"><B>Click Here!</B></A>
                  > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- ~->
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
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                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >

                  >


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