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Re: [textualcriticism] Understanding the Nominclature of "p)" in NA Critical Apparatus

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  • P.M. Head
    ... It means (3) something else altogether: EIS TO PLOION is the reading in these manuscripts for Luke 8:37 and this particular reading is thought to be
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 5, 2006
      On Apr 5 2006, J. Ted Blakley wrote:

      > I am working on the use of the definite article in conjunction with
      > PLOION in Mark, and have been looking at the synoptic parallels and all
      > of the manuscript evidence for the Synoptics as well. I have come across
      > an abbreviation in NA's apparatus that I would like clarification on. In
      > Luke 8:37 in reference to EIS PLOION, the apparatus reads: p) EIS TO
      > PLOION A K P W... etc.
      >
      > What exactly does "p)" mean? Obviously it is referring to parallel
      > passages but I am not sure (1) if it means that EIS TO PLOION is the
      > reading in these manuscripts for Luke 8:37, a reading which is in keeping
      > with the readings in parallel passages for Mark and Matthew in these same
      > manuscriptes or (2) perhaps it means that if you look at these
      > manuscripts in Mark and Matthew then these manuscripts will have this
      > reading, but that the reading for Luke 8:37 in all of the manuscripts is
      > simply EIS PLOION, (3) or something else altogether.

      It means (3) something else altogether: EIS TO PLOION is the reading in
      these manuscripts for Luke 8:37 and this particular reading is thought to
      be influenced by the parallel passage/s (without defining which passages at
      all; and without claiming anything about what these particular mss read in
      the parallel passage/s). This sort of thing is often easier to see in
      Aland's Synopsis (which also has more variants of this type than NA27).

      Peter
    • Stephen C. Carlson
      ... Your option (1) is almost right, except that it does not necessarily promise that those same manuscripts will have that reading in the parallel passage. To
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 5, 2006
        At 12:30 PM 4/5/2006 +0100, J. Ted Blakley wrote:
        >I am working on the use of the definite article in conjunction with PLOION in Mark, and have been looking at the synoptic parallels and all of the manuscript evidence for the Synoptics as well. I have come across an abbreviation in NA's apparatus that I would like clarification on. In Luke 8:37 in reference to EIS PLOION, the apparatus reads: p) EIS TO PLOION A K P W... etc.
        >
        >What exactly does "p)" mean? Obviously it is referring to parallel passages but I am not sure (1) if it means that EIS TO PLOION is the reading in these manuscripts for Luke 8:37, a reading which is in keeping with the readings in parallel passages for Mark and Matthew in these same manuscriptes or (2) perhaps it means that if you look at these manuscripts in Mark and Matthew then these manuscripts will have this reading, but that the reading for Luke 8:37 in all of the manuscripts is simply EIS PLOION, (3) or something else altogether.

        Your option (1) is almost right, except that it does not necessarily promise
        that those same manuscripts will have that reading in the parallel passage.
        To determine that, you'd have to look at the apparatus in the parallel.

        In this case, it happens to be true for the Markan parallel, because almost
        all MSS of Mark 5:18 include the TO, with some minuscule exceptions being
        noted in the Huck-Greeven synopsis.

        Stephen Carlson
        --
        Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
        Weblog: http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
        Author of: The Gospel Hoax, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1932792481
      • Tommy Wasserman
        Dear list, I need some help with a passage in the LXX, which is not a field I am too familiar with. In Isaiah 57:20 the second part of the verse present in the
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 7, 2006
          Dear list,

          I need some help with a passage in the LXX, which is not a field I am
          too familiar with.

          In Isaiah 57:20 the second part of the verse present in the Masoretic
          text is missing in the main part of the LXX tradition. According to
          Ralph's edition, however, the translation of the second part is
          attested in L and O (in Origen's Hexapla it is marked with asterisk):
          καὶ ἀποβάλλεται τὸ ὓδωρ αὐτῆς καταπάτημα καὶ πηλός.

          I have two questions:

          1. Are there any good arguments for this LXX-variant going back to a
          pre-christian revision? (the text is brought closer to the Masoretic?)
          2. Are there any LXX/OG MSS in support of the variant? I don't have
          access to the major critical editions (not in my library), and I lack
          knowledge of recent discoveries, I have only checked Ralph's edition.

          Grateful for any help,

          Tommy Wasserman
          Centre for Theology and Religious Studies
          Lund University
          Sweden
        • Tommy Wasserman
          Dear list, For some reason, the second half of the message disappeared (after the Unicode Greek part). Here are the questions in connection with the previous
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 7, 2006
            Dear list,

            For some reason, the second half of the message disappeared (after the
            Unicode Greek part). Here are the questions in connection with the
            previous message:

            1. Are there any good arguments for this LXX-variant (Isa 57:20b) going
            back to a pre-christian revision? (the text is brought closer to the
            Masoretic?)

            2. Are there any LXX/OG MSS in support of the variant? I don't have
            access to the major critical editions (not in my library), and I lack
            knowledge of recent discoveries, I have only checked Ralph's edition.

            Grateful for any help,

            Tommy Wasserman
            Centre for Theology and Religious Studies
            Lund University
            Sweden


            2006-04-07 kl. 10.45 skrev Tommy Wasserman:

            > Dear list,
            >
            > I need some help with a passage in the LXX, which is not a field I am
            > too familiar with.
            >
            > In Isaiah 57:20 the second part of the verse present in the Masoretic
            > text is missing in the main part of the LXX tradition. According to
            > Ralph's edition, however, the translation of the second part is
            > attested in L and O (in Origen's Hexapla it is marked with asterisk):
            > καὶ ἀποβάλλεται τὸ ὓδωρ αὐτῆς καταπάτημα καὶ πηλός
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