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Understanding the Nominclature of "p)" in NA Critical Apparatus

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  • J. Ted Blakley
    I am working on the use of the definite article in conjunction with PLOION in Mark, and have been looking at the synoptic parallels and all of the manuscript
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 5, 2006
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      I am working on the use of the definite article in conjunction with PLOION in Mark, and have been looking at the synoptic parallels and all of the manuscript evidence for the Synoptics as well. I have come across an abbreviation in NA's apparatus that I would like clarification on. In Luke 8:37 in reference to EIS PLOION, the apparatus reads: p) EIS TO PLOION A K P W... etc.

      What exactly does "p)" mean? Obviously it is referring to parallel passages but I am not sure (1) if it means that EIS TO PLOION is the reading in these manuscripts for Luke 8:37, a reading which is in keeping with the readings in parallel passages for Mark and Matthew in these same manuscriptes or (2) perhaps it means that if you look at these manuscripts in Mark and Matthew then these manuscripts will have this reading, but that the reading for Luke 8:37 in all of the manuscripts is simply EIS PLOION, (3) or something else altogether.

      I would appreciate help with this even if it is just a reference to go look something up.

      Sincerely,
      Ted Blakley

      --
      ========================================================================
      J. Ted Blakley
      Ph.D. Candidate -- New Testament, The Gospel of Mark
      University of St Andrews, Scotland, UK

      Email 1:  jtb1@...
      Email 2:   jtedblakley@...

      Online CV:        www.blakleycreative.com/jtb
      Hebrew 2 Hub:   www.blakleycreative.com/jtb/Hebrew.htm
      ========================================================================
    • P.M. Head
      ... It means (3) something else altogether: EIS TO PLOION is the reading in these manuscripts for Luke 8:37 and this particular reading is thought to be
      Message 2 of 5 , Apr 5, 2006
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        On Apr 5 2006, J. Ted Blakley wrote:

        > I am working on the use of the definite article in conjunction with
        > PLOION in Mark, and have been looking at the synoptic parallels and all
        > of the manuscript evidence for the Synoptics as well. I have come across
        > an abbreviation in NA's apparatus that I would like clarification on. In
        > Luke 8:37 in reference to EIS PLOION, the apparatus reads: p) EIS TO
        > PLOION A K P W... etc.
        >
        > What exactly does "p)" mean? Obviously it is referring to parallel
        > passages but I am not sure (1) if it means that EIS TO PLOION is the
        > reading in these manuscripts for Luke 8:37, a reading which is in keeping
        > with the readings in parallel passages for Mark and Matthew in these same
        > manuscriptes or (2) perhaps it means that if you look at these
        > manuscripts in Mark and Matthew then these manuscripts will have this
        > reading, but that the reading for Luke 8:37 in all of the manuscripts is
        > simply EIS PLOION, (3) or something else altogether.

        It means (3) something else altogether: EIS TO PLOION is the reading in
        these manuscripts for Luke 8:37 and this particular reading is thought to
        be influenced by the parallel passage/s (without defining which passages at
        all; and without claiming anything about what these particular mss read in
        the parallel passage/s). This sort of thing is often easier to see in
        Aland's Synopsis (which also has more variants of this type than NA27).

        Peter
      • Stephen C. Carlson
        ... Your option (1) is almost right, except that it does not necessarily promise that those same manuscripts will have that reading in the parallel passage. To
        Message 3 of 5 , Apr 5, 2006
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          At 12:30 PM 4/5/2006 +0100, J. Ted Blakley wrote:
          >I am working on the use of the definite article in conjunction with PLOION in Mark, and have been looking at the synoptic parallels and all of the manuscript evidence for the Synoptics as well. I have come across an abbreviation in NA's apparatus that I would like clarification on. In Luke 8:37 in reference to EIS PLOION, the apparatus reads: p) EIS TO PLOION A K P W... etc.
          >
          >What exactly does "p)" mean? Obviously it is referring to parallel passages but I am not sure (1) if it means that EIS TO PLOION is the reading in these manuscripts for Luke 8:37, a reading which is in keeping with the readings in parallel passages for Mark and Matthew in these same manuscriptes or (2) perhaps it means that if you look at these manuscripts in Mark and Matthew then these manuscripts will have this reading, but that the reading for Luke 8:37 in all of the manuscripts is simply EIS PLOION, (3) or something else altogether.

          Your option (1) is almost right, except that it does not necessarily promise
          that those same manuscripts will have that reading in the parallel passage.
          To determine that, you'd have to look at the apparatus in the parallel.

          In this case, it happens to be true for the Markan parallel, because almost
          all MSS of Mark 5:18 include the TO, with some minuscule exceptions being
          noted in the Huck-Greeven synopsis.

          Stephen Carlson
          --
          Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
          Weblog: http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
          Author of: The Gospel Hoax, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1932792481
        • Tommy Wasserman
          Dear list, I need some help with a passage in the LXX, which is not a field I am too familiar with. In Isaiah 57:20 the second part of the verse present in the
          Message 4 of 5 , Apr 7, 2006
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            Dear list,

            I need some help with a passage in the LXX, which is not a field I am
            too familiar with.

            In Isaiah 57:20 the second part of the verse present in the Masoretic
            text is missing in the main part of the LXX tradition. According to
            Ralph's edition, however, the translation of the second part is
            attested in L and O (in Origen's Hexapla it is marked with asterisk):
            καὶ ἀποβάλλεται τὸ ὓδωρ αὐτῆς καταπάτημα καὶ πηλός.

            I have two questions:

            1. Are there any good arguments for this LXX-variant going back to a
            pre-christian revision? (the text is brought closer to the Masoretic?)
            2. Are there any LXX/OG MSS in support of the variant? I don't have
            access to the major critical editions (not in my library), and I lack
            knowledge of recent discoveries, I have only checked Ralph's edition.

            Grateful for any help,

            Tommy Wasserman
            Centre for Theology and Religious Studies
            Lund University
            Sweden
          • Tommy Wasserman
            Dear list, For some reason, the second half of the message disappeared (after the Unicode Greek part). Here are the questions in connection with the previous
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 7, 2006
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              Dear list,

              For some reason, the second half of the message disappeared (after the
              Unicode Greek part). Here are the questions in connection with the
              previous message:

              1. Are there any good arguments for this LXX-variant (Isa 57:20b) going
              back to a pre-christian revision? (the text is brought closer to the
              Masoretic?)

              2. Are there any LXX/OG MSS in support of the variant? I don't have
              access to the major critical editions (not in my library), and I lack
              knowledge of recent discoveries, I have only checked Ralph's edition.

              Grateful for any help,

              Tommy Wasserman
              Centre for Theology and Religious Studies
              Lund University
              Sweden


              2006-04-07 kl. 10.45 skrev Tommy Wasserman:

              > Dear list,
              >
              > I need some help with a passage in the LXX, which is not a field I am
              > too familiar with.
              >
              > In Isaiah 57:20 the second part of the verse present in the Masoretic
              > text is missing in the main part of the LXX tradition. According to
              > Ralph's edition, however, the translation of the second part is
              > attested in L and O (in Origen's Hexapla it is marked with asterisk):
              > καὶ ἀποβάλλεται τὸ ὓδωρ αὐτῆς καταπάτημα καὶ πηλός
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