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Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Modified image of Codex Washingtonensis

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  • J. Ted Blakley
    ... Wieland
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 13, 2004
      >> I don't get the joke.
      >
      >It's no joke.
      >
      >> It's a fraud
      right?
      >
      >It's at least a "modified" image. I have not read the
      book, just seen
      >the cover.
      >
      >Best
      wishes
          Wieland
             <><

      I agree with Wieland's careful response to whether this is a fraud, especially given that it is on the cover of a book. It is very possible that the book argues that the tetragrammaton was in the original manuscript(s) and that the image on the front cover is an artists' rendering of what it would have looked like. Perhaps he argues that on this particular manuscript the tetragrammaton was erased and replaced with KY. But without knowing the argument of the book, it is impossible to determine whether the image on the cover is being presented as evidence for the thesis (and so fraudulent) or merely as an illustration accompanying the thesis.
          Of course, the danger is that even if it is simply a modified image for the sake of illustrating what may have been present once, the image itself, detached from the argument of the book, could be used to argue that the tetragrammaton is in fact on an actual NT manuscript in existence and so deceive many people.
       
      Sincerely,
      Ted 
      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      J. Ted Blakley
       
      Ph.D. Candidate (New Testament)
      St Mary's College
      University of St Andrews
       
      jtb1@...
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 4:24 PM
      Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Modified image of Codex Washingtonensis

      > I don't get the joke.

      It's no joke.

      > It's a fraud right?

      It's at least a "modified" image. I have not read the book, just seen
      the cover.

      Best wishes
          Wieland
             <><
      ------------------------------------------------
      Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
      mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
      Textcritical commentary:
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html



    • Jack Kilmon
      ... From: Wieland Willker To: Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:22 AM Subject:
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 13, 2004
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Wieland Willker" <willker@...-bremen.de>
        To: <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 9:22 AM
        Subject: [textualcriticism] Modified image of Codex Washingtonensis


        >
        > From the curiosities cabinet:
        > Tetragrammaton in the Codex Washingtonensis?
        > Have a look at:
        > http://utenti.lycos.it/matteopierro/geova.htm
        >
        > It is the first page of the Gospel of Mark in Codex W 032. For the
        > original image compare:
        > http://www.beloit.edu/~classics/GospelOfMark/
        >
        >
        > Best wishes
        > Wieland
        > <><

        What I find MOST interesting about W Mark is the insert after 16:14:

        "....and they excused themselves saying, "this age of lawlessness and
        unbelief is under Satan who by his unclean spirits does not allow the true
        power of God to be comprehended. Therefore now reveal thy righteousness."
        So they spoke to Christ and Christ addressed them thus: "The limit of the
        years of Satan's authority has been fulfilled, but other terrible things are
        drawing near, even to those sinners on whose behalf I was handed over to
        death, that they may turn to the truth and sin no more. In order that they
        may inherit the spiritual and incorruptible glory of righteousness in
        Heaven, go ye unto alll the world and preach the gospel to the whole
        creation......."

        Where did this come from? W from 1:1 to 5:31 is Western and from 5:31 to
        16:20 is Caesarean. I don't think this is some relic of an ur-Markus.

        Jack
      • Dan Bellapianta (MedOPS)
        From reading the comments on the book ( http://utenti.lycos.it/matteopierro/geova.htm), the question/argument presented is: Pierro also analyzes the causes
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 14, 2004
          From reading the comments on the book ( http://utenti.lycos.it/matteopierro/geova.htm), the question/argument presented is:

          "Pierro also analyzes the causes which brought the substitution of Kurios (From kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, ) in the position of the name YHWH (tetragrammaton - the four Hebrew letters usually transliterated YHWH or JHVH that form a biblical proper name of God) which came in the early Christian Greek text."

          "Il Pierro analizza anche le cause che portano alla sostituzione di Kyrios al posto del teonoma YHWH avvenuta nei primitivi testi cristiani in greco."

          He also brings up the question of proper pronounciation of YHWH "Yahowa e non Yahwe".

          ------------------------------------
          Thank you for your kind help.

          Dan Bellapianta
          dan@...
          www.medops.net

          -----Original Message-----
          From: "J. Ted Blakley" <jtb1@...>
          Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:34:57
          To:<textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Modified image of Codex Washingtonensis

          >> I don't get the joke.
          >
          >It's no joke.
          >
          >> It's a fraud right?
          >
          >It's at least a "modified" image. I have not read the book, just seen
          >the cover.
          >
          >Best wishes
          Wieland
          <><

          I agree with Wieland's careful response to whether this is a fraud, especially given that it is on the cover of a book. It is very possible that the book argues that the tetragrammaton was in the original manuscript(s) and that the image on the front cover is an artists' rendering of what it would have looked like. Perhaps he argues that on this particular manuscript the tetragrammaton was erased and replaced with KY. But without knowing the argument of the book, it is impossible to determine whether the image on the cover is being presented as evidence for the thesis (and so fraudulent) or merely as an illustration accompanying the thesis.
          Of course, the danger is that even if it is simply a modified image for the sake of illustrating what may have been present once, the image itself, detached from the argument of the book, could be used to argue that the tetragrammaton is in fact on an actual NT manuscript in existence and so deceive many people.

          Sincerely,
          Ted
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          J. Ted Blakley

          Ph.D. Candidate (New Testament)
          St Mary's College
          University of St Andrews

          jtb1@...
          -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Wieland Willker
          To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 4:24 PM
          Subject: [textualcriticism] Re: Modified image of Codex Washingtonensis

          > I don't get the joke.

          It's no joke.

          > It's a fraud right?

          It's at least a "modified" image. I have not read the book, just seen
          the cover.

          Best wishes
          Wieland
          <><
          ------------------------------------------------
          Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
          mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
          Textcritical commentary:
          http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html




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        • Jack Kilmon
          ... From: Dan Bellapianta (MedOPS) To: Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 2:05 AM Subject: Re:
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 14, 2004
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Dan Bellapianta (MedOPS)" <dan@...>
            To: <textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 2:05 AM
            Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Re: Modified image of Codex Washingtonensis



            >
            > He also brings up the question of proper pronounciation of YHWH "Yahowa e
            > non Yahwe".

            Absolutely no way for him to know and since his "suggestion" is so close to
            the nonsense word "Jehovah" probably quite wrong. It is more likely that
            YHWH is the imperfect qal or hiph'il of hwh, "to be" meaning "He who exists"
            hence yeHAwa would be a better guess.
            ]
            Jack
          • Wieland Willker
            ... Here a manipulated image of Codex W/032 occurs on the title page of a book from Matteo Pierro. Now, a friendly reader alerts me of a rebuttal and response
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 9, 2004
              Recently I wrote:
              > From the curiosities cabinet:
              > Tetragrammaton in the Codex Washingtonensis?
              > Have a look at:
              > http://utenti.lycos.it/matteopierro/geova.htm


              Here a manipulated image of Codex W/032 occurs on the title page of a
              book from Matteo Pierro. Now, a friendly reader alerts me of a rebuttal
              and response to that book at:

              http://home.europa.com/~lynnlund/itm2books.htm

              The homepage BTW claims to be "the leading research web site dedicated
              exclusively to the study of the Tetragrammaton."
              It might therefore be helpful to those interested in a discussion with
              Jehowah's witnesses.

              Best wishes
              Wieland
              <><
              ------------------------------------------------
              Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
              mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
              http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
              Textcritical commentary:
              http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
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