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Re: Free Vaticanus download

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  • Roger Pearse
    ... I have heard a suggestion, the value of which I do not know, that the statements of copyright on images of manuscripts such as these are a scam. The
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 3 10:44 AM
      --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Peter Head <pmh15@c...> wrote:
      > No doubt it has been out or print, but my understanding is
      > that a 1968 work would still be copyright protected. No
      > permissions seem to have been given.
      > Can anybody clarify?
      >
      > BTW it is really useful so it would be nice to think that it was
      > legal/moral to distribute copies.

      I have heard a suggestion, the value of which I do not know, that the
      statements of copyright on images of manuscripts such as these are a
      scam. The reasoning is that copyright only vests in original works
      (which I believe to be true); that the manuscripts themselves are out
      of copyright (true I think); that no copyright can be created simply
      by making a copy of a non-copyright item, however ingeniously you set
      up the light and shade etc.

      I believe that it is certainly the case that an electronic version of
      an out of copyright text cannot thereby acquire copyright status;
      whether this applies to pictures of manuscripts I do not know.

      I'm not a lawyer, but I wish this could be examined.

      All the best,

      Roger Pearse
    • Schmuel
      Hi TC, ... Hi Roger, I think at very best it will be a grey area. A computer arrangement of an off-copyright item (e.g Geneva Bible) is pretty definitely
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 6 2:18 PM
        Hi TC,

        Roger Pearse wrote:
        >I have heard a suggestion, the value of which I do not know, that the
        >statements of copyright on images of manuscripts such as these are a
        >scam. The reasoning is that copyright only vests in original works
        >(which I believe to be true); that the manuscripts themselves are out
        >of copyright (true I think); that no copyright can be created simply
        >by making a copy of a non-copyright item, however ingeniously you set
        >up the light and shade etc.
        >
        >I believe that it is certainly the case that an electronic version of
        >an out of copyright text cannot thereby acquire copyright status;
        >whether this applies to pictures of manuscripts I do not know.
        >
        >I'm not a lawyer, but I wish this could be examined.

        Hi Roger, I think at very best it will be a grey area. A computer arrangement of an
        off-copyright item (e.g Geneva Bible) is pretty definitely copyrightable, as it includes
        the value-added independent value-added commercial enterprise of file formatting,
        interface, and other elements (perhaps even the labor to scan/keypuch in). Somebody
        else can do their own scanning and formatting, but they can't just legally lift
        yours and take it and put it in their software package. Which makes sense.

        And a crafty computer guy will put some little teensy identification markers, just like
        a map-maker turns a tiny little street the wrong way to catch the unauthorized copy.
        Maybe a couple of commas will be in a different place than the real text.

        All that seems pretty similar to a picture arrangement. And of course picture folks
        do similar pseudo-watermarking for the same purpose. The problem is that some
        libraries and such have used their monopolization of a text to only allow their
        favored photographer, (or whatever reproduction technique is involved) thus making
        the text inaccessible, or at an inflated cost. If I remember there is some movement
        to try to rectify this situation overall, legal pressure, conventions, whatever. Or maybe
        folks just hoped there would be such movement.

        To a large extent copyright is a commercial right, not just a text right, where layout
        and formatting are definitely part of the final product and often sufficient for copyright.

        Like you, I am not a lawyer, but when we were discussing Qimron vs. BAR
        (the DSS case) I did a little research.

        Also copyright varies country to country. In the Qimron case, he sued in Israel and
        definitely took advantage of home court to win a victory, one that had some copyright
        experts cringing in legal anguish.

        Shalom,
        Steven Avery
        Queens, NY
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Messianic_Apologetic
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