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Re: [textualcriticism] New article on Western Non-Interpolations

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  • K. Martin Heide
    Wieland Willker wrote: Defending the Western Non-Interpolations : The Case for an Anti Separationist Tendenz in the Longer Alexandrian Readings by Michael
    Message 1 of 27 , Sep 8, 2005
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      Wieland Willker wrote:
      "Defending the 'Western Non-Interpolations': The Case for an Anti Separationist Tendenz in the Longer Alexandrian Readings"
      by Michael W. Martin
      JBL 124/2 (2005) 269–294
      
      I haven't really digested it yet, just skimmed through it, but already found this gem:
      "the chance or probability of exactly seven mistaken verdicts of authenticity occurring with regard to the eight Lukan verses is 0.003574092055824." (sic! 15 digits). 
      Not discussing the faulty premises, would it not be enough to say it is less than 1%? Is this a peer reviewed journal? Alas, Bob Waltz is not here anymore. 
      
      Ok, so much for a bad start, I will nevertheless read it carefully, just skipping the "mathematical" part. 
      Btw. are theologians forced to use German words in their scholarly articles? To me this looks just silly. 
      
        
      Meanwhile, I had the chance to read the article.

      What I do not understand is that M.W. Martin does not cite the final article of K. Aland, "Die Bedeutung des P75 für den Text des Neuen Testaments: Ein Beitrag zur Frage der "Western non-interpolations"" in: "Studien zur Überlieferung des Neuen Testaments und seines Textes", ANTF 2 (only  the early form of Aland's article in NTS 12; see Martin's footnote 2), and even worse, does not deal with Aland's observations.

      Aland compares the WNI (western non-interpolations), which are admittingly "orthodox" in their theology, with different omissions of the "western" texts, which are (from his viewpoint) neither orthodox nor heterodox in their theology: Lk 5:39; 10:41; 12:19: 12:21; 12:39; 22:19-20; 22:43-44; 22:62; 24:3; John 3:31-2; 4:9, and which point to a "western" tendency to omit at certain points .

      Now, from all these only one scripture is treated by M.W. Martin in detail (Lk 22:19-20), the others not. Why? Did I mistake s.th.?
      Neither did Ehrman deal with K.Aland's observations in his "Orthodox Corruption".

      I agree with Wieland pertaining to statistics and numbers. The German chancellor Konrad Adenauer said, "believe only in the statistics you faked yourself"! :-)

      Best wishes,  Martin
    • Peter Head
      Does anyone know why the middle epsilon is printed bold in NA27 and NA26. Cheers Peter ... Peter M. Head, PhD Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
      Message 2 of 27 , Sep 12, 2005
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        Does anyone know why the middle epsilon is printed bold in NA27 and NA26.

        Cheers

        Peter

        >
        >----------

        Peter M. Head, PhD
        Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
        Tyndale House
        36 Selwyn Gardens Phone: (UK) 01223
        566607
        Cambridge, CB3 9BA Fax: (UK) 01223 566608
        http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Head/Staff.htm
      • Jim West
        It isn t bold in Merk s edition- but it is in all the copies of NA I have here. Maybe just extra ink flowed at that spot? I don t think there s any textual
        Message 3 of 27 , Sep 12, 2005
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          It isn't bold in Merk's edition- but it is in all the copies of NA I
          have here. Maybe just extra ink flowed at that spot? I don't think
          there's any textual reason for it. I take it to be a printer's error.

          Best

          Jim



          Peter Head wrote:
          > Does anyone know why the middle epsilon is printed bold in NA27 and NA26.
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          > Peter

          --
          Jim West

          Biblical Studies Resources - http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
          Biblical Theology Weblog - http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com
        • Peter Williams
          NA27 is generally a photographic reproduction of NA26, except in the apparatus. See the phrase avoiding the necessity for altering the page makeup on p. 46*
          Message 4 of 27 , Sep 12, 2005
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            NA27 is generally a photographic reproduction of NA26, except in the
            apparatus. See the phrase 'avoiding the necessity for altering the page
            makeup' on p. 46* of NA27. I've wondered before whether this letter was
            indeed bold, but I reckon that many graphical features are shared between
            the editions.

            Consider for instance p. 59 line 3 where at Matthew 21:14 there is a tiny
            dot just after XWLOI. This is shared in an edition of NA26 and of NA27 in
            my possession.

            NA27 is thus _literally_ a photographic reproduction of NA26, though within
            these editions there are corrected printings.

            Can anyone find any more dots?

            Pete



            At 11:35 12/09/2005 +0100, you wrote:
            >Does anyone know why the middle epsilon is printed bold in NA27 and NA26.
            >
            >Cheers
            >
            >Peter
            >
            > >
            > >----------
            >
            >Peter M. Head, PhD
            >Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
            >Tyndale House
            >36 Selwyn Gardens Phone: (UK) 01223
            >566607
            >Cambridge, CB3 9BA Fax: (UK) 01223 566608
            ><http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Head/Staff.htm>http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Head/Staff.htm
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            ------------
            Peter Williams
            Deputy Head of Divinity, History and Philosophy
            University of Aberdeen
            p.j.williams@...
          • Stephen C. Carlson
            ... Typographical error, perhaps? If so, this would illuminate what is stated on p. 46* that the TEXT of this edition reproduces that of the 26th edition
            Message 5 of 27 , Sep 12, 2005
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              At 11:35 AM 9/12/2005 +0100, Peter Head wrote:
              >Does anyone know why the middle epsilon is printed bold in NA27 and NA26.

              Typographical error, perhaps? If so, this would illuminate what is stated on
              p. 46* that the "TEXT of this edition reproduces that of the 26th edition
              unchanged. Consequently, with rare exceptions, the paragraphing and punctuation
              remains the same, avoiding the necessity for altering the page makeup."

              This indicates to me that the page containing Mark 13:13 in the 26th edition
              may not have been re-typeset for the 27th edition.

              Stephen

              --
              Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
              Weblog: http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
              Author of: The Gospel Hoax, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1932792481
            • Peter Head
              There is some kind of a dot on the same page as ESESQE under the HENEKEN of 13.9 (shared in NA26 and NA 27). Fair enough the whole page is a straightforward
              Message 6 of 27 , Sep 12, 2005
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                There is some kind of a dot on the same page as ESESQE under the HENEKEN of
                13.9 (shared in NA26 and NA 27). Fair enough the whole page is a
                straightforward reproduction. So a single bold letter is just an unusual
                typo or a type-setter making his mark, or is it supposed to signal
                something like bold letters in the Hebrew Bible?

                Pete

                At 01:00 PM 9/12/05, you wrote:
                >NA27 is generally a photographic reproduction of NA26, except in the
                >apparatus. See the phrase 'avoiding the necessity for altering the page
                >makeup' on p. 46* of NA27. I've wondered before whether this letter was
                >indeed bold, but I reckon that many graphical features are shared between
                >the editions.
                >
                >Consider for instance p. 59 line 3 where at Matthew 21:14 there is a tiny
                >dot just after XWLOI. This is shared in an edition of NA26 and of NA27 in
                >my possession.
                >
                >NA27 is thus _literally_ a photographic reproduction of NA26, though within
                >these editions there are corrected printings.
                >
                >Can anyone find any more dots?
                >
                >Pete
                >
                >
                >
                >At 11:35 12/09/2005 +0100, you wrote:
                > >Does anyone know why the middle epsilon is printed bold in NA27 and NA26.
                > >
                > >Cheers
                > >
                > >Peter
                > >
                > > >
                > > >----------
                > >
                > >Peter M. Head, PhD
                > >Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
                > >Tyndale House
                > >36 Selwyn Gardens Phone: (UK) 01223
                > >566607
                > >Cambridge, CB3 9BA Fax: (UK) 01223
                > 566608
                > ><http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Head/Staff.htm>http://www.tyn
                > dale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Head/Staff.htm
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >----------
                > >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                > >
                > > * Visit your group
                > > "<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/textualcriticism>textualcriticism" on
                > the web.
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                > >
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                > >----------
                >
                >
                >------------
                >Peter Williams
                >Deputy Head of Divinity, History and Philosophy
                >University of Aberdeen
                >p.j.williams@...
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >

                Peter M. Head, PhD
                Sir Kirby Laing Senior Lecturer in New Testament
                Tyndale House
                36 Selwyn Gardens Phone: (UK) 01223
                566607
                Cambridge, CB3 9BA Fax: (UK) 01223 566608
                http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Tyndale/staff/Head/Staff.htm
              • Daniel B. Wallace
                It s not bold in my eighth printing of NA27. Dan Wallace ... From: Jim West To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re:
                Message 7 of 27 , Sep 12, 2005
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                  It's not bold in my eighth printing of NA27.

                  Dan Wallace

                  ----- Start Original Message -----
                  From: Jim West <jwest@...>
                  To: textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [textualcriticism] Mark 13.13 ESESQE

                  > It isn't bold in Merk's edition- but it is in all the copies of NA I
                  > have here. Maybe just extra ink flowed at that spot? I don't think
                  > there's any textual reason for it. I take it to be a printer's error.
                  >
                  > Best
                  >
                  > Jim
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Peter Head wrote:
                  > > Does anyone know why the middle epsilon is printed bold in NA27 and NA26.
                  > >
                  > > Cheers
                  > >
                  > > Peter
                  >
                  > --
                  > Jim West
                  >
                  > Biblical Studies Resources - http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
                  > Biblical Theology Weblog - http://biblical-studies.blogspot.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  ----- End Original Message -----
                • Viktor Golinets
                  In my copy of NA27, 8th Printing, 2001 (in German 27. Auflage, 2. Druck) , the middle epsilon is not printed bold. But it is bold in NA27, 2nd printing, 1994.
                  Message 8 of 27 , Sep 12, 2005
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                    In my copy of NA27, 8th Printing, 2001 (in German "27. Auflage, 2. Druck) , the middle epsilon is not printed bold. But it is bold in NA27, 2nd printing, 1994.
                     
                    In NA27, 2nd printing, 1994 in Acts 1:1 LOGON the last letter is bold. But in NA27, 8th printing, 2001 it is not bold.
                     
                    Here is the short list of other instances in NA27, 2nd printing, 1994 and in NA27, 8th printing, 2001 with bold letters:
                     

                    Lk 1,59 PERITEMEIN the first Iota

                    Lk 2,31 PROSWPON the first Omicron and the accent sign

                    John 3,28 MARTUREITE the first four letters

                    John 10:23 PERIPATEI the second Iota

                    John 10:25 hA and the accent sign

                    John 11:31 MET THE first letter

                    Acts 1:1 W and the accent sign

                    Hebr 9,25 EAUTON the Ypsilon

                    These are the instances that I have just noted during my reading but I have not checked all the NT consequently. I also have not checked the 1st, the 3rd, the 5th, the 6th and the 7th printigs of NA27.


                    Viktor Golinets, M.A.
                    Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität, München
                    Institut für Semitistik


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                  • Viktor Golinets
                    I have just forgotten to share my opinion: I consider this bold printing of letters to be just typographical irregularities. Viktor Golinets Viktor Golinets
                    Message 9 of 27 , Sep 13, 2005
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                      I have just forgotten to share my opinion: I consider this bold printing of letters to be just typographical irregularities.
                       
                      Viktor Golinets


                      Viktor Golinets <viktor_golinets@...> schrieb:
                      In my copy of NA27, 8th Printing, 2001 (in German "27. Auflage, 2. Druck") , the middle epsilon is not printed bold. But it is bold in NA27, 2nd printing, 1994.
                       
                      In NA27, 2nd printing, 1994 in Acts 1:1 LOGON the last letter is bold. But in NA27, 8th printing, 2001 it is not bold.
                       
                      Here is the short list of other instances in NA27, 2nd printing, 1994 and in NA27, 8th printing, 2001 with bold letters:
                       

                      Lk 1,59 PERITEMEIN the first Iota

                      Lk 2,31 PROSWPON the first Omicron and the accent sign

                      John 3,28 MARTUREITE the first four letters

                      John 10:23 PERIPATEI the second Iota

                      John 10:25 hA and the accent sign

                      John 11:31 MET THE first letter

                      Acts 1:1 W and the accent sign

                      Hebr 9,25 EAUTON the Ypsilon

                      These are the instances that I have just noted during my reading but I have not checked all the NT consequently. I also have not checked the 1st, the 3rd, the 5th, the 6th and the 7th printigs of NA27.


                      Viktor Golinets, M.A.
                      Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität, München
                      Institut für Semitistik


                      Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB kostenlosem Speicher


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                    • voxverax
                      Dear Peter: I m pretty sure the bold epsilon is a typo, possibly elicited by a typesetter s omission of es and a subsequent correction at the proof-reading
                      Message 10 of 27 , Sep 15, 2005
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                        Dear Peter:

                        I'm pretty sure the bold epsilon is a typo, possibly elicited by a
                        typesetter's omission of "es" and a subsequent correction at the
                        proof-reading stage.

                        In the 1963 25th edition, "esesqe" is normal, without any bold
                        letters.

                        Yours in Christ,

                        James E. Snapp, Jr.
                        Curtisville Christian Church
                        Curtisville, OH (USA)
                        www.curtisvillechristian.org
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