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SNTS 2005 paper on INTF/IGNTP colaboration

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  • Wieland Willker
    THE JOINT IGNTP/INTF EDITIO CRITICA MAIOR OF THE GOSPEL OF JOHN: ITS GOALS AND THEIR SIGNIFICANCE FOR NEW TESTAMENT SCHOLARSHIP PAPER FOR SNTS 2005, HALLE, Y
    Message 1 of 5 , Aug 29, 2005
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      "THE JOINT IGNTP/INTF EDITIO CRITICA MAIOR OF THE GOSPEL OF JOHN: ITS GOALS AND THEIR SIGNIFICANCE FOR NEW TESTAMENT SCHOLARSHIP"
      PAPER FOR SNTS 2005, HALLE, Y K. WACHTEL AND D.C. PARKER

      http://www.uni-muenster.de/NTTextforschung/ECM%20Halle6.pdf

      The paper describes the cooperation of IGNTP and INTF on the gospel of John. What was new to me is that they will not only produce the T&T volume but also the ECM volume! That's great!
      But it's still some time away: "we are looking
      currently at an approximately eight-year period."

      They also write:
      "There are currently no recent critical editions of the versions included in the ECM: the Latin, Syriac and Coptic."
      I don't know about the Syriac and Coptic, but isn't there the Itala edition by Juelicher, Aland et al.? What's wrong with it?

      They also coin, quite needlessly, another term for the archetype of the tradition. They call it "initial text".

      They say that Jo 5:3b-4 and 7:53-8:11 is "unrelated to the initial text". ... "It surely has to be included somehow".
      :-)

      Best wishes
      Wieland
      <><
      ------------------------------------------------
      Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
      mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
      Textcritical commentary:
      http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
    • Peter Williams
      ... In the preface to the volumes (sorry no details - mine are in boxes at the moment) Aland notes/bemoans the fact that it has not been possible to establish
      Message 2 of 5 , Aug 30, 2005
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        >
        >They also write:
        >"There are currently no recent critical editions of the versions included
        >in the ECM: the Latin, Syriac and Coptic."
        >I don't know about the Syriac and Coptic, but isn't there the Itala
        >edition by Juelicher, Aland et al.? What's wrong with it?

        In the preface to the volumes (sorry no details - mine are in boxes at the
        moment) Aland notes/bemoans the fact that it has not been possible to
        establish Juelicher's rationale in establishing the text printed in larger
        font. Essentially it appears that it was made up on principles that it is
        no longer possible to reconstruct. The Principio Project has been preparing
        a critical edition of the Latin. I'll be overseeing an edition of the Old
        Syriac and Peshitta.
        Best wishes,
        Pete Williams

        ------------
        Peter Williams
        p.j.williams@...
      • Peter Williams
        In my last e-mail substitute Verbum Project for Principio Project . Sleeping at the computer again... Pete ... Peter Williams p.j.williams@abdn.ac.uk
        Message 3 of 5 , Aug 30, 2005
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          In my last e-mail substitute 'Verbum Project' for 'Principio Project'.
          Sleeping at the computer again...

          Pete





          At 08:25 30/08/2005 +0200, you wrote:
          >"THE JOINT IGNTP/INTF EDITIO CRITICA MAIOR OF THE GOSPEL OF JOHN: ITS
          >GOALS AND THEIR SIGNIFICANCE FOR NEW TESTAMENT SCHOLARSHIP"
          >PAPER FOR SNTS 2005, HALLE, Y K. WACHTEL AND D.C. PARKER
          >
          ><http://www.uni-muenster.de/NTTextforschung/ECM%20Halle6.pdf>http://www.uni-muenster.de/NTTextforschung/ECM%20Halle6.pdf
          >
          >The paper describes the cooperation of IGNTP and INTF on the gospel of
          >John. What was new to me is that they will not only produce the T&T volume
          >but also the ECM volume! That's great!
          >But it's still some time away: "we are looking
          >currently at an approximately eight-year period."
          >
          >They also write:
          >"There are currently no recent critical editions of the versions included
          >in the ECM: the Latin, Syriac and Coptic."
          >I don't know about the Syriac and Coptic, but isn't there the Itala
          >edition by Juelicher, Aland et al.? What's wrong with it?
          >
          >They also coin, quite needlessly, another term for the archetype of the
          >tradition. They call it "initial text".
          >
          >They say that Jo 5:3b-4 and 7:53-8:11 is "unrelated to the initial text".
          >... "It surely has to be included somehow".
          >:-)
          >
          >Best wishes
          > Wieland
          > <><
          >------------------------------------------------
          >Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
          >mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
          ><http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie>http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
          >Textcritical commentary:
          ><http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html>http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie/TCG/index.html
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          ------------
          Peter Williams
          p.j.williams@...
        • Jan Krans
          Listers may be interested to know that NovTest 2005/3 is available electronically (subscription only), with two articles on TC, as well as many reviews with
          Message 4 of 5 , Aug 30, 2005
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            Listers may be interested to know that NovTest 2005/3 is available
            electronically (subscription only), with two articles on TC, as well as
            many reviews with bearing on TC:

            The Greek of Codex Vaticanus in the Second Gospel and Marcan Greek
            Voelz, James W.
            Novum Testamentum, Volume 47, Number 3, 2005, pp. 209-249 (41)

            Abstract:
            This study seeks to describe in some detail the characteristics of the
            Greek of ms. B, Vaticanus, in the Gospel of Mark (including features of
            orthography, vocabulary, morphology, and syntax) and then to compare them
            to the characteristics of the Greek of that gospel, as determined on the
            basis of a much greater range of ms. evidence. It finds that the
            relationship between ms. B's characteristics and those of Mark is complex;
            the two are largely but not completely congruent. Of special interest is
            the fact that the Greek of both exhibits a great "shift" in the latter
            half of the book; from chapter 8 onward it is more "Hellenic," new
            linguistic patterns emerge, and inconsistencies of usage begin to make a
            strong appearance.

            Dimitrios Doukas and the Accentuation of the New Testament Text of the
            Complutensian Polyglot
            Lee, John A.L.
            Novum Testamentum, Volume 47, Number 3, 2005, pp. 250-290 (41)

            Abstract:
            This paper begins by pointing out the previously unobserved fact that the
            accentuation of the Greek New Testament text of the Complutensian Polyglot
            (1514) follows a monotonic system almost exactly the same as that now in
            use in Modern Greek. Next is considered the information on the matter in
            the preface to the volume. The Greek text of the preface is presented with
            English translation and notes. A number of misconceptions are dealt with.
            The question of the identity of the inventor of the accentuation is then
            explored in full. The evidence in favour of Dimitrios Doukas as editor of
            the text and author of the preface is summarised and augmented. The paper
            then argues that it was he who conceived and applied the system of
            accentuation. Possible other sources of the idea are considered and
            eliminated. Finally the question of who might have been behind the initial
            intention to print an unaccented text is discussed.

            Greetings,
            Jan Krans
            Vrije Universiteit,
            Amsterdam
          • Stephen C. Carlson
            ... The paper claims that their initial text is different from the archetype of the tradition, but it is not quite clear to me how. ... However, in my
            Message 5 of 5 , Aug 30, 2005
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              At 08:25 AM 8/30/2005 +0200, Wieland Willker wrote:
              >They also coin, quite needlessly, another term for the archetype of the
              >tradition. They call it "initial text".

              The paper claims that their "initial text" is different from the
              archetype of the tradition, but it is not quite clear to me how.
              One of their reasons given for this distinction is:

              |In traditional Lachmannian stemmatics, what happened to
              |the text before the archetype was written was not the
              |editor�s business.

              However, in my understanding of stemmatics, what happened
              before the archetype was written is certainly the editor's
              business and, in fact, two of the four phases of stemmatics--
              examinatio and divinatio--are expressly devoted to determining
              the pre-archetypal text.

              Perhaps a valid reason to avoid the term "archetype" is to
              avoid its implications, especially that the "archetype"
              represents the most recent common ancestor of the entire
              textual tradition. If their techniques do not reconstruct
              or even approximate such an entity, then it would be
              certainly appropriate *not* to term the text that they do
              generate as an "archetype."

              Stephen Carlson
              --
              Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
              Weblog: http://www.hypotyposeis.org/weblog/
              Author of: The Gospel Hoax, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1932792481
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