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7735Re: James 5:8 -- 2816 = a member of Group-2138?

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  • Vox Verax
    Mar 19, 2013
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      Tim,

      My brief comparison of 2816 to 2412 in James leads me to suspect that 2816 is a fellow-member of the same group. But I have a full plate already, what with Easter approaching, and I don't have the time to partially collate the General Epistles in 2816. (I might go back and sift through James more thoroughly, though.) Maybe someone else here would like this task??

      I wonder where 2816 would fit in Diagram 3 in Klaus Wachtel's chapter on CBGM (on page 125 of "Editing the Bible").

      What should this group be called? Wachtel called it the Harclensis Group (HG). But in the article at http://rosetta.reltech.org/TC/v07/SWH2002/index.html the authors acknowledge (however cautiously) that "the form of text preserved in the Greek witnesses is prior to that translated into Syriac in 616 A.D." Wouldn't it be best to name a group after its earliest or most distinct member?

      Also: (I'm not sure if I quite grasped what I think is the basis for this question, but,) does anything in the Circular Maximum Parsimony diagram, or in a diagram like Diagram #3, change when all members are arranged using only the 495 passages in which the text produced via a reverse-translation from the Harklean Syriac consists of an unambiguous variant, instead of the 3,046 passages that Wachtel mentioned?

      Yours in Christ,

      James Snapp, Jr.


      --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "yennifmit" <tfinney@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi James,
      >
      > Unfortunately, I don't have any data on 2816 so can't say which group it belongs to. It may be in the same textual complex as 2138 and company. (If you are really keen, you could add a row for 2816 to one of the UBS4 data matrices for the General Letters available at my Views site. I would then redo the analysis and be able to say where 2816 fits.)
      >
      > Concerning what to call that complex, I prefer to use medoids to name groups. (The medoid of a group is its most central member.) Just what the medoid is depends on which other texts are there -- adding or subtracting even one can cause the medoid to change. That means that one needs to look at group members to find corresponding groups when comparing across data sets. As it happens, some partitions of the INTF-General and UBS4 data sets for the General Letters shown at the Views site have 2138 as the medoid of that complex.
      >
      > http://www.tfinney.net/Views/index.xhtml
      >
      > I don't know how early the 2138 complex is. Its roots may be in pre-Chalcedon Eastern Christianity but its link with the Harclean Syriac suggests a later date for the form found in 2138 and co.
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > Tim Finney
      >
      > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, "Vox Verax" <james.snapp@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Tim Finney,
      > >
      > > I don't see 2816 listed in any of the groups. Based on a brief comparison of its text in James to some members of the 2138-group, I reckon that 2816 should be considered a member of Group-2138 � and somewhat less Byzantine than 2412 (images of which are online at the University of Chicago's Goodspeed Collection, where 2412 is called the Ira Maurice Price Praxapostolos -- look, btw, at how 5:20 is mangled in 2412, at Image #264! And no correction?!). Robert Waltz has some interesting things to say about Group-2138, including, "Family 2138 is an early text-type."
      > >
      > > Does anyone think HMWN in 5:8 has a shot at being original?
      > >
      > > Yours in Christ,
      > >
      > > James Snapp, Jr.
      > >
      >
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