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3561Re: Russian textual tradition variants in Jude

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  • mjriii2003
    Mar 3, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear Tommy,

      Thanks Tommy. I am aware of your doctoral efforts and their
      circumference.

      Mss 2544 and Z would more closely resemble the Russian adverbial
      rendering in the translation I have been reading.

      The harmonization from 2 Peter 2:16 seems probable. On another note,
      I wonder, do you think Jude was written before or after 2 Peter?:-)

      I agree that the likelihood of other uncollated mss containing these
      last two variants is slim, but I still can't come to the confidence
      that the textual transmission is without a Vorlage for either, esp
      since the testimony surrounding the efforts of Cyril and Methodius is
      so sparce.

      Thanks again,

      Malcolm
      _____________


      --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Tommy Wasserman <tomwas@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Dear Malcolm,
      >
      > I should tell you that I collated all the Greek continuous-text
      > manuscripts containing the Epistle of Jude, some 520 + ca. 40
      > lectionaries, so there is little chance that there is anything
      lying
      > there in uncollated Greek manuscripts anyway.
      >
      > Now to the remaining two verses - thank you for providing an
      English
      > translation:
      >
      > v. 16: "dishonestly and lawlessly".
      > This addition does reflect some Greek manuscripts that have the
      > addition TH ASEBEIA KAI TH PARANOMIA (459 1838 1842 1846ZV); 467
      reads
      > TH ASEBEIA KAI PARANOMIA; 2544Z reads EN ASEBEIA KAI ANOMIA
      >
      > Z = correction or additional reading
      > V = videtur
      >
      > The peculiar emendation was possibly influenced by the remotely
      similar
      > phrase in v. 18 where EPIQUMIA is further specified, and possibly
      also
      > by the passage in 2 Pet 2:16.
      >
      > v. 19: "from the unity of the faith"
      > This addition I have not found in any Greek MSS.
      >
      > Good luck!
      >
      > Tommy Wasserman
      >
      >
      > 3 mar 2008 kl. 15.57 skrev mjriii2003:
      >
      > > Dear Tommy,
      > >
      > > The words in question in the last to verses translate
      > > respectively "dishonestly and lawlessly" and "from the unity of
      the
      > > faith."
      > >
      > > I see that I failed to pose my question clearly to begin with.
      What
      > > I was looking for was not the "known, already collated"
      information
      > > that NA27, you or NTTF would provide but perhaps a recent
      collated
      > > discovery not yet released.
      > >
      > > It still is my hunch that the glosses are explanatory and expland
      > > upon the text's meaning itself. The Russian translation that I've
      > > been reading deviates from the Synodal version in these and other
      > > points.
      > >
      > > The shroud of darkness that still encircles the extent of the
      Slavic
      > > textual tradition was one of my main interests in this question
      to
      > > begin with. If these words are texually transmitted from earlier
      > > Greek or Latin mss, then the proof is still pending, lying in the
      > > still as yet remaining uncollated texts.
      > >
      > > Thanks again for your willingness to respond.
      > >
      > > Malcolm
      > > ______________
      > >
      > > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Tommy Wasserman
      <tomwas@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Dear Malcolm,
      > > >
      > > > okay. Perhaps I also need an English translation! But I can try
      > > with my
      > > > limited knowledge of Slavic languages...
      > > >
      > > > v. 14, there are several witnesses that add AGGELWN to v. 14,
      > > including
      > > > some early, e.g., P72 01 044 et al. I see it as an explanatory
      > > gloss.
      > > > For an extensive comment, see my dissertation, The Epistle of
      Jude:
      > > Its
      > > > Text and Transmission, p. 299-300.
      > > >
      > > > v. 15: Does "slovax" mean words? The insertion of LOGWN has
      early
      > > and
      > > > widespread attestation, e.g., 01 04 33 81 1739 et al, see my
      > > > dissertation p. 305-307.
      > > >
      > > > v. 16: Can you translate that in as literal English as
      possible?
      > > >
      > > > v. 19: Can you translate this too?
      > > >
      > > > With regards
      > > >
      > > > Tommy
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > 1 mar 2008 kl. 20.47 skrev mjriii2003:
      > > >
      > > > > Ok Tommy, here's the transcription:
      > > > >
      > > > > vs 14 angelof
      > > > > vs 15 slovax
      > > > > vs 16 nechestivo i bezzakonno
      > > > > vs 19 ot edinstva very
      > > > >
      > > > > Malcolm
      > > > >
      > > > > -----------
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In textualcriticism@yahoogroups.com, Tommy Wasserman
      > > <tomwas@>
      > > > > wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Dear Malcolm,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > my problem is that I cannot see what you have written -
      > > perhaps my
      > > > > > e-mailsoftware does not support your font. Can you do a
      > > > > transcription
      > > > > > please and I will try to answer.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Tommy Wasserman
      > > > > >
      > > > > > 28 feb 2008 kl. 17.39 skrev mjriii2003:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > > Greetings all,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > My question is specific. Does anyone have knowledge of
      any
      > > Greek
      > > > > or
      > > > > > > Latin mss which contain the following explanatory words
      in
      > > the
      > > > > epistle
      > > > > > > of Jude:
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Àíãåëîâ (vs 14)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > ñëoâàõ (vs 15)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > íå÷åñòèâî è áåççàêîííî (vs 16)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > îò åäèíñòâà âåðû (vs 19)
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Thanks,
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > > Malcolm
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
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