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Alternator powered TC /speculations of power demand.

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  • Harvey D Norris
    Heres a reply I made to tesla list concerning three phase methods from an alternator, and the possibilities for an AC alternator to be used to power a tesla
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 26, 2004
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      Heres a reply I made to tesla list concerning three phase methods
      from an alternator, and the possibilities for an AC alternator to be
      used to power a tesla coil....

      --- Tesla list <tesla@...> wrote:
      > Original poster: "Jim Lux" <jimlux@...>
      > I've been running some interesting simulations, in
      > respect of having 3
      > basically identical (but slightly different) coils
      > running simultaneously,
      > near each other, to see if you could get triangular
      > or Wye sparks.
      At one time I had three high induction coils that
      normally exhibited a Q of ~8, these were placed as a
      delta within a delta inside outer components of .15
      henry, 12 ohms 14 gauge coil groups, that when 180
      phased can supply an open circuit Q of 45 between the
      coil systems. The 1000 ohm induction coils then supply
      a q of 8 times that outside voltage range, which of
      course slightly drops when placed between a
      interphasal voltage range. So for this three phase set
      up obtained from a 15 volt stator of a AC converted
      car alternator source, generally a loaded high
      induction coil inner phase will input 600 volts,
      becoming 8 fold that value in its midpoint voltage
      rise, (~4800 volts). Having three of these inner delta
      series resonances, it is easy to light 20 inch neons
      arranged either in delta of wye across the inner
      voltage rises. But arranging a three phase arc gap
      proved problematic, so that the arc once it had
      assumed itself across two voltage rise terminals,
      would then prevent or somehow take up all the
      available inner voltage rise, so that making a
      coherent three phase arc gap proved impossible. Later
      studies using a total of 13 simultaneous meter
      readings involving
      1) the stator voltage
      2,3,4) - 3 stator line amperage readings
      5,6,7) - Delta 3 phase amperage readings
      8,9,10)- Delta 3 phase internal voltage rise readings
      11,12,13) Inner Delta 3 phase interphasal voltage

      These readings containing 13 meters showed that the
      phase angles were not being distributed properly so
      that one phase was acting weakly, apparently due to
      its lack of mutual induction with the other phases,
      with respect to how the outer delta series resonances
      are arranged. This in turn of course may have effected
      the disfunction of the three phase arc gap, and the
      importance of procuring a 13 meter reading is obvious,
      where we then have two and not just one method to
      determine the phase angles, both by comparing the
      stator line delivery currents to the delta arms it
      serves, and also the increase of interphasal voltage
      readings as referenced to the outside voltages of the
      phases themselves.

      Before this time, the study of alternator source
      frequency resonances has been relegated to myself, as
      I dont exactly know anyone else doing this because of
      the expense of the components. I have been at this for
      about three years, and during this time replicated a
      480 hz CW Tesla coil set up that uses multiturn
      primaries and secondaries. Very amazing things have
      been learned, and now it is time to say a significant
      developement has occured on the drawing board, which
      will significantly decrease the cost of resonant rise
      schemes, so that now Tesla Coilers will now have a
      special reason to attempt their own alternator 3 phase
      schemes. Having procured a 3 phase high voltage
      transformer, I will be able to test out this circuit
      on a 3 phase TC primary and go from there. But the
      foremost question that first needs to be adressed is
      how much power can the alternator output? This will
      tell us whether our project is even valid from the get
      go... A medium voltage range stator is 14 volts, and
      we can go up to 30 volts for short time periods to
      power our TC. Lets see whats obtainable using 2 nf for
      a TC primary. Remember 480 hz is 8 times the frequency
      of 60 hz, also giving the capacity 8 times more energy
      transfer, so a smaller capacity is equivalent to a
      larger one at a lower frequency energy transfer wise.
      If we input 14 volts into a 62 fold voltage rise made
      by a 10 KVA pole pig, we can expect only 868 volts
      secondary output. An open circuit reading of 14.6
      volts stator when shorted is reduced to 4.25 volts
      enabling 8.5 Amps, thus Z(int) of the stator phase is
      .5 ohm. The ohmic value of 2 nf @ 480 hz would be X(C)
      = 1/[2pi*480*000000002}= 165,870 ohms, thus demanding
      a supply of 5.23 ma on the secondary@ 868 volts with a
      primary amperage demand of .324 A, a small quantity.
      Now according to some electrical laws set forward In
      HW Jackson's treatise on maximum power transfer, the
      current found on the short should be twice the current
      found at maximum power transfer, which also occurs as
      a consequent 50% drop in the output voltage. So for
      those laws, we can assume that the 14.6 stator voltage
      should drop to half that value at 7.3 volts and then
      enable only a conduction of 4 amps at maximum power
      transfer, which is only a meager 29 watts! Luckily for
      us however those laws dont seem to be valid in
      procuring a single of three phases of the alternator,
      and besides this later developements show
      contradictions. And as I recall I have extracted 400
      watts through three sets of 12 ohm resonances formerly
      so I would set that as the top limit.

      One should understand that to gain sensible operation
      of the alternator, we need to resort to schemes
      whereby amperage is extracted at the lowest possible
      stator voltage, where 14.5 volts here is a midrange
      voltage value. One might be surprised that if we turn
      up the stator voltage to a 30 volt level, due to its
      very inefficient delivery where stator saturation
      factors start to act, the alternator will get hot even
      with no loads attached! Internal circulation of stator
      currents do occur as a loss factor. So here before us
      the first TC obstacle is the lack of secondary voltage
      from the transformer, and also the lack of primary
      amperage demand with a 14 volt stator. Since
      ferromagnetic voltage rise transformers in excess of
      the pole pig 62.5/1 ratings are not a common item, and
      because of the fact that our amperage demand at the
      sensible 14 volt range is very small, these are
      impossible sounding obstacles, but an option now has
      appeared on the horizon.

      This is a resonant current ballasting of a pole pig
      primary using pairs of Radio Shack Megacable Speaker
      wire. For a sensible RCB, unfortunately we are lowered
      to the inductance enabled by the length of wire having
      the resistance identical to the impedance of the
      source. We say unfortunately because the amount of
      current limiting taking place may be in excess to what
      our needs call for, in which case the unballasted
      version is compared to. Thus here what I am
      essentially saying is that drawing on a single phase,
      we can construct a maximum power transfer circuit as
      we understand it and by additionally resonating that
      circuit by the inductance generated in the coil form
      we can in fact create a voltage rise circuit
      equivalent to the demand circuit in terms of the
      sources current limited ability to deliver current.
      Once we have constructed two of these circuits
      inversely, by a three stator line connection where the
      120 phasing is converted to 180 by mutual induction of
      inductive components; the placement of a load across
      the voltage rises is current limited to the amount of
      reactance found in any of the components, which is an
      entirely different value then when they are in
      resonance when conduction near ohms law are
      contemplated. The continual presence of the
      interphased load, which is the resonant current
      ballasted pole pig primary, insures that the circuit
      never actually consumes its maximum amperage delivery
      because of that load, and the next step therefore
      becomes calculating the output voltage and amperage
      demand of a 2 nf secondary cap. but meanwhile...

      The results of this for a single 4 layer megacable
      series, is that when the spirals are made bifilar
      opposite windings, but currents enabling magnetic
      fields in unity the currents found on the resonance
      are actually 98% of the currents found on a short of
      the circuit! Alternator RCB is the placement of two of
      these outer delta series resonances of maximum power
      transfer at resonance, across only two of the three
      available delta three phase outputs. It is found that
      by mutual inductance of 120 phased series resonances,
      that their 120 phased action is easily converted to
      180 at no losses of the newly derived stator voltages.
      And therefore these coils then can act as bipolar
      series resonances of maximum amperage demand on either
      side of the pole pig primary, and the voltage rise
      ratio of each of these 4 layer spirals can be
      predicted as 6, for a 12 fold increase of input
      voltage where 14 volts is then increased to 168 volts
      input to pole pig primary, making 10,416 theoretical
      volts available on secondary, which for 2 nf would
      enable a current of 62.7 ma creating a demand of 3.89
      A on primary. So the problem now becomes to see what
      the RCB can supply at short, and this is estimated by
      the impedance of 3 mh found on the 4 layer spiral...
      This works out to 9 ohms @ 480 hz, so a 14 volt stator
      would be limited to 14/9 of 1.55 A current regulation
      at 14 volts. One will need a supply of almost 4 amps
      to enble a 2nf cap at these cited values, so the best
      that could be hoped for is that for in this scenario
      there seems to be a tradeoff involved in that using a
      preliminary voltage rise circuit will simply not
      function to provide that amount of voltage rise, if in
      fact the supply cannot meet the demands, however it
      seems the voltage rise circuit could still rise to the
      amount of demand allowed for when the primary COULD
      conduct at values near that limit. This would be a
      mere 24 ma on secondary, or about a 4000 volt delivery
      to a 2 nf cap. Actually then that isnt really that
      bad, since for a 15,000 volt NST @ 30 ma current
      limitation, a 5.3 nf cap rating is its resonant value,
      thus at 8 times the frequency and almost 1/3 the
      voltage the energy transfer rates might be comparable.
      And of course we can still amp out the field of the
      alternator to get a 30 volt stator primary for short
      duration 8000 volt secondary operations. But the
      really unique thing this RCB setup gives is for the
      possibility of effective quenching of an arc gap
      however. This is because if we replace the pole pig
      primary as a load to this circuit with a short, the
      projections show that at this 14 volt stator, a
      current of 1.5 A will be across the short, however
      because that short converts two series resonances to a
      single tank resonance, that 1.5A amperage circulation
      would only allow .15A into the loop, given a forcasted
      q of 10 and the increased impedance of the tank loop.
      This means that if the secondary arc presents itself
      as a short to the supply, the voltage across the
      primary goes back down to its supply stator levels.
      I will try a alternator RCB of a 10 KVA tranformer
      first with a 20 inch neon disharge and then with an
      actual 2 nf cap- primary and arc gap. In these
      situations it is clearly advantageous to use RCB,
      since it nominally acts as a voltage rise component to
      an infinite load, but at the same time can act as a
      load within the confines of a tank circuit at maximum
      amperage demand. To clarify the difference here a
      simple reactive ballasting only reduces the possible
      amperage delivery to the primary of the transformer,
      and that limit is set by the ohmic resistance of the
      limiting factor. In this case there are situations
      where a unballasted primary will allow more current to
      be assumed then would be consumed by its regulated
      counterpart. This is of course only common sense,
      without the current limiting factor in series, there
      is no current limitation. Thus again we say that the
      unballasted version can contain more amperage then the
      ballasted. In contrast the RCB regulation instead will
      allow a HIGHER amperage input to occur on account of
      its ballasting; then what the unregulated version will
      allow for, and it does this on account that it also
      functions as a voltage rise component in the
      situations where the supply apparently exceeds the
      demand of the secondary. However a distinction is made
      then for the unballasted version, a secondary short
      then would mean more current in that comparison,
      however the RCB will see such a short as a high
      impedance load change to the stator inputs. In
      contrast a short of the secondary tranformer of an
      ordinary primary ballast scheme will give its maximum
      conduction values on the primary, but on the RCB the
      stator demand does not see those low impedance values
      at a short, but rather Q times the tank circuit Q's as
      a difference between amperage demand conditions
      between open and close positions of midpoint amperage
      Sincerely HDN
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