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Precedent for spiral 3 phase mutual induction tests.

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  • Harvey D Norris
    In the preceeding post, from Feb 2002, a lot of unknowns were still in the picture, and one of these was the assumption that the windings were .25 ohms, thus
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 14, 2004
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      In the preceeding post, from Feb 2002, a lot of unknowns were still
      in the picture, and one of these was the assumption that the windings
      were .25 ohms, thus the often cited one ohm resonance value given for
      these 4 layer spirals. The resistance meter actually gave those
      values, but a later reading of 5 of these sets showed a value of 1.5
      ohms, meaning each winding should be .15 ohms, and not .25. The
      precedent here for what we can expect when three phase mutual
      induction is used to enhance q factors is contained in that cited
      jpeg where

      Here again as formerly noted by constructing a bifilar wye for
      magnetic agreement, the 1/4 ohm spirals, each having a solitary
      impedance of .16 millihenry, have been given 1.8 times that value
      acting inductance by the mutual inductance brought on by adjacent
      phases of the 3 spirals. The net result is that each spiral sytem has
      their Q brought up to 4 by mutual induction, and 4 times less
      conduction results then that resistance would allow for the 8.6 volts
      across the stator. Thus 32 amps do not develope but only 8 amps( on 3
      phases.) Now here then because the loads are in wye, we assume the
      1/4 ohm resistance to be at least twice R(int) in that load
      application. However the importance of specifying how far the stator
      voltage drops from a no load situation, to that of a low resistance
      high load situation now gives a new meaning as to specifying the
      acting R(int), where it is seen that internal impedance of the source
      must also be entering the picture.
      What was done here was to wire the spirals in WYE, instead of the
      conventional Delta. If we assume that the voltage measurement was
      also made across the WYE segments, which I recall doing things that
      way during these tests, then what we have here is wye segments acting
      with a 1 ohm impedance. Knowing now the true resistance of the
      windings themselves to be near .15 ohm, the conduction levels made
      indicate that the reactance value is 6.6 times the resistive, thus
      the theoretical available q factor would be 6.6. In these
      arrangements the fourth wind of two pairs of cable wire are routed to
      scope for observation, and this shows a very high mutual induction,
      where the voltages on the coils and the scoping are identical! and
      amazingly also shows that apparently 3 distinctly timed phases of
      magnetic field appear. It is my belief that these phasing differences
      would disappear, hence an enhanced mutual induction effect, were
      these spiral windings instead resonated at the value of the reactance
      found at mutual induction. Thus we can take a sort of shortcut here,
      because of this past data where we know know that when the middle
      winding is reversed, each of the .15 ohm windings will have a
      reactance of 1 ohm. We postulate what value of X(C) will equal that
      one ohm, which unfortunately is a vast quantity...

      X(C) =1/[2pi*f*C]= 1
      C=[6.28*480]^-1= 3.3 * 10^-4 F = 330 uf.

      This is why a single layer approach using these spirals as source
      frequency resonators is prohibitive, where I only have about 120 uf
      of caps available.
      A minimum of 4 spiral layers is necessary to procure enough
      inductance to be paired with capacties in the 40 to 50 uf range. Let
      us estimate the inductance of the present 4 layer arrangement, where
      a parametric 1.59 volts enabled .19 A, this would be Z =8.37 ohms and
      if X(L)~ = Z then
      X(L) = 2pi*F*L
      8.38= 6.28 * 480 *L
      L = 2.78 mh
      A check of the deviance made by estimating X(L) as Z shows that .6
      ohms squared is still small to the same quantity of the 8.37 ohms
      suspected as a reactance estimate squared, or only a .5% deviance,
      meaning the opposing X(C) value should actually be made .5% under the
      acting impedance of 8.37 ohms, which is such a miniscule correction
      as to be neglible. In these tests the nameplate values of 45.2 uf
      have given a X(C) value of 8.92 ohms, so more capacity can be added
      to the circuit.
      A calculation of the resonant frequency capacity for 2 .78 mh @
      480 hz;
      R(F)= 1/[2pi* sq rt {LC}]
      First the LC constant is found for 480 hz.
      2pi* sq rt {LC}= 1/480 ; sq rt {LC}= 1/[6.28*480]
      LC =[1/3014]^2= 1.1 * 10^-7
      Dividing by the value of 2.78 mh = 2.78 * 10^-3 H
      C= 3.96 * 10^-5 F = 39.6 uf
      where X(C) =[6.28*480*.0000396]^-1 = 8.38 ohms in agreement.

      So... apparently the 45.2 uf resonance values I have used dont match
      up to calculations, so this will be reviewed. To close here we need
      to see the cited problems with a scalar WYE, where the windings are
      then made with no middle reversed wind, so that the fields are all in
      Higher Amperage WYE spirals operation.


      20 volt variac, 3 phase cancellation referenced to previous 5

      When this change was made, the varaic was momentarily turned off, and
      when the change made turned back on again at 36 volts. I glanced over
      to see 19 amps on the amperage meter! The variac was lowered to 20
      volt operation to allow the lower currents. This would normally
      produce about 15 volts on the 12 ohm DSR, but here it only appears as
      1 volt, enabling 9.74 amps conduction. However the one quarter ohm
      loads should only enable only 4 amp conductions on the wye lines, not
      over twice that value.

      Comment/ since we already know that the resistance was actually .15
      ohms, that 1 volt should have enabled only 1/.15 = 6.66 Amps. Here we
      see the paradox of attempting to tune such a mutual inductance
      arrangement. It is possible some mistake was made about where we
      measured the voltages here, so this is also noted for future
      reference. The problem is that the currents are in excess to Ohms
      law, so a mistake is suspected. If we did try to tune such a circuit,
      we realize that the mutual inductance has caused each inductance to
      be decreased, thereby lowering each phases Q factor and impedance
      levels. The value of Z for this example then is 1 volt enabling 9.74
      amps or Z= V/I = 1/9.74 = .102 ohms. As we can see that becomes an
      impossible capacity, at least some 3000 uf, where formerly when we
      needed 1 ohm of X(C), this required 330 uf for matching.

      Thus at least here we conclude that the spiral wye formation gave a
      circumstance where the adjacent winding appeared to add current to
      that phase by lenz law, and that in actuality this is favorable in
      some schemes. Significant here in this experimentation is the fact
      that only one spiral wind of reactive output produces the effects of
      severely loading down the generator, so that operation in both
      agreement, where a 14.5 volt open stator is reduced to a 8 volt/8
      amp reactive draw, to the more overloaded situation of magnetic 3
      Phase opposition where that 14.5 volt open stator is reduced to a 1
      volt WYE impressed emf enabling 9.74 A through the windings.

      Since the scalar wye has added current to the windings, one would
      expect a delta scalar to do the same effect, but if I recall the
      added current is less pronounced for that effect. In fact twice the
      parametric short currents exist for a WYE extraction, then does a
      delta, if my memory serves correct. The eventual idea for testing a
      scalar WYE negative impedance component is that these are wired on
      the stator delivery lines themselves, and the applied resonances then
      exist in the ordinary delta configuration. thus essentially we have a
      line coupled wye delta conversion, but no capacities exist in the WYE
      reactance component. There are many combinations available for
      reacting 12 windings, which is what is available for a 3 phase 4
      layer winding arrangement, which will keep the alternator from being
      in this overload regimen.

      To end here the cited wind value of .16 mh, would yeild a reactance
      of .48 ohms at 480 hz, but here because of three phase mutual
      inductance of spirals , it appears near one ohm. The reactance
      appeared doubled due to mutual inductance, thus~ half the capacity
      normally used will be supected needed for use when the 4 layer spiral
      groups are brought into mutual induction.

      Sincerely HDN
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