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Puzzlement over scalar waves

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  • alostclown
    I ve presented this in another group and gotten no result and since Tesla is often associated with Scalar Waves, this may be a good place to find the answer.
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 3, 2003
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      I've presented this in another group and gotten no result and since
      Tesla is often associated with Scalar Waves, this may be a good place
      to find the answer. There seems to be a paradox involved with scalar
      waves, and here it is:

      Ok, here's the problem. Every time I see a coil designed to produce
      scalar waves, it turn out to be nothing more than an interference
      wound coil.
      That is a coil where the current moves along parallel paths in
      opposite directions, so that the magnetic fields give 100%
      cancellation.
      This raises a very interesting question:
      Is something produced by an arrangement of this kind, and if so, what
      characteristics would it have?
      My understanding is that scalar waves are very potent, and should
      have some spectacular results if present in any quantity (from
      readings in other groups).
      Here is the problem: Interference windings are the basis of most
      electical noise reduction technology today. Every telephone wire
      pair and computer cable uses this method (twisted pair wires). Now
      when you consider the amount of power consumed in computer and
      telephone communications, we should be up to our noses in scalar
      waves without the necessity of building devices to produce them.
      So far, I have noted no spectacular effects associated with my
      computer systems nor with telephone wires.
      Explanation?
      Yes, I'm a sceptic when it comes to things that have to be taken on
      faith when they should be physically manifested under present
      conditions.
    • Harvey D Norris
      ... place ... scalar ... produce ... what ... Theres a bit more here then meets the eye. The mere fact that two reactive currents oppose each other creates no
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 5, 2003
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        --- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "alostclown" <alostclown@y...> wrote:
        > I've presented this in another group and gotten no result and since
        > Tesla is often associated with Scalar Waves, this may be a good
        place
        > to find the answer. There seems to be a paradox involved with
        scalar
        > waves, and here it is:
        >
        > Ok, here's the problem. Every time I see a coil designed to
        produce
        > scalar waves, it turn out to be nothing more than an interference
        > wound coil.
        > That is a coil where the current moves along parallel paths in
        > opposite directions, so that the magnetic fields give 100%
        > cancellation.
        > This raises a very interesting question:
        > Is something produced by an arrangement of this kind, and if so,
        what
        > characteristics would it have?
        > My understanding is that scalar waves are very potent, and should
        > have some spectacular results if present in any quantity (from
        > readings in other groups).
        > Here is the problem: Interference windings are the basis of most
        > electical noise reduction technology today. Every telephone wire
        > pair and computer cable uses this method (twisted pair wires). Now
        > when you consider the amount of power consumed in computer and
        > telephone communications, we should be up to our noses in scalar
        > waves without the necessity of building devices to produce them.
        > So far, I have noted no spectacular effects associated with my
        > computer systems nor with telephone wires.
        > Explanation?
        > Yes, I'm a sceptic when it comes to things that have to be taken on
        > faith when they should be physically manifested under present
        > conditions.

        Theres a bit more here then meets the eye. The mere fact that two
        reactive currents oppose each other creates no scalar effect, as your
        protests note. You have to use the imagination better, every reactive
        current that becomes resonant, and to then have the resonant magnetic
        fields oppose each other, rather then just the weaker reactive ones:
        And how do you even know the reactive ones would respond correctly in
        timing? Even the resonant reaction does not seem to cause a scalar
        effect in those extra conditions. The key to the way I understand it
        has been shown by taped records. The scalar effect only predominates
        when you also incorporate high frequency, which is an option brought
        upon by resonance. There is a resonance switchway that can be
        employed whereby we go beyond mere spatial opposition, and go into
        actual timing opposition. This is an electrical spark that
        instantaneously reverses the direction of the magnetic field holding
        it.

        Check out http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/KCB

        These are old jpegs showing kickbacks from sriking a 1.5 cm high
        voltage arc from the BRS with ~ 300 volt input This same system when
        presented with minisule arcing between potentials delivered a cited
        scalar effect. That effect is based on polarization , which means
        that you can turn the loops to face the reception opposite to normal
        reception: and gain a signal not based on spatial flux change, but
        rather temporal time flux change, or also the legendary longitudinal
        signal. Proove of the temporal flux change is the difference in
        frequency obtained by tilting the receptor, in the same area of that
        reception. I have also picked up signals far beyond the source of the
        emanation as a radio influence would do.


        If you ask any one in the world if they can demonstrate the so called
        scalar effect; I doubt if you will get any takers. However from what
        I have seen in the past; I created these same effects quantifying
        itself as the same phenomenon, and could reproduce them to the same
        specs as before, but they only occured around certain perimeters of
        the coil system, which makes the showing of them more difficult.

        By a compression of time simply implies breaking a circuit so that
        the result of the break is not recognized by the source, because of
        the great time lag brought on by the lowering of a coils natural
        resonant frequency on each side of the breaking or initiating arc.

        The arc that occurs collapses the magnetic field into its opposite
        polarity state by conversion of resonances only has to travel through
        space, but because the windings of the coil surrounding that space of
        magnetic field: and Relatively speraking we wonder if the effect has
        gone faster then the experienced speed of light,and has far greater
        length, one effect can reach the ending quicker that the actual
        electrical impulse does., so its a dream state to sleep on.

        HDN
      • alostclown
        ... your ... Thank you Harvey, Yours is the first response I ve had other than to be berated for lack of faith . And what you say makes sense. My problem has
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 6, 2003
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          --- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "Harvey D Norris" <harvich@y...>
          wrote:
          > Theres a bit more here then meets the eye. The mere fact that two
          > reactive currents oppose each other creates no scalar effect, as
          your
          > protests note. You have to use the imagination better, every <snip>
          Thank you Harvey,
          Yours is the first response I've had other than to be berated
          for "lack of faith".
          And what you say makes sense. My problem has been with items that
          have been offered as "proof" of scalar effects, but which, when built
          acording to spec. (I was a test equipment designer for a major
          corporation for a number of years, so should be able to follow the
          schematics) do nothing, and, by all know laws of physics, could do
          nothing.
          Seeing a device that produces an unexpected result instead of just
          being told to "believe" is encouraging.
          I'm curious about the equipment involved. Since I changed
          professions I've been longing to get back into design and
          experimental work (computers are boring after a while), and this
          looks interesting.
          Mike
        • Dave N.
          Hi Mike (and Harvey/all), This has been on one of my many back burners for too long now... Since you seem to have a robust technical background perhaps you
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 6, 2003
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            Hi Mike (and Harvey/all),

            This has been on one of my many "back burners" for too long now... Since you seem to have a
            robust technical background perhaps you would want to take a stab at it.

            http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/sclxmtr.htm

            Reports are it defeats a Faraday cage.

            Best,

            Dave Narby
          • alostclown
            Hi, Either my reply didn t send, or it was slow to post, so if this turns out to be a repeat, please forgive me. Actually, I met the Caduceus coil some time
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 9, 2003
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              Hi,
              Either my reply didn't send, or it was slow to post, so if this turns
              out to be a repeat, please forgive me.

              Actually, I met the Caduceus coil some time ago. This design seems to
              be a bit more refined than the one I remember, but since the
              disclaimer is identical, it's probably the same person.

              Yes, the signal will go through a Faraday cage with no trouble, but
              it is totally blocked by proper magnetic shielding (e.g. mu-metal
              foil).
              This leads to the conclusion that the signal is magnetic induction
              picked up by some component of the radio. In fact, the design
              reminds me of some of the induction transmitter projects that were
              popular in the 60s.

              Faraday cages will only stop r-f, not magnetic fields. Likewise, a
              thin metal can which will block r-f will not block a modulated
              magnetic field unless the combination of wall thickness and metal
              permeability are sufficient to channel all the lines of force around
              the interior of the can.

              This was one of the projects I built that made me question the
              reality of Scalar em. The devices that were claimed to demonstrate
              it either did nothing at all, or produced results that were
              mislabeled. I'd love to find something that adctually demonstrated
              the existence of a new kind of energy, so I'll keep building and
              testing.

              Then again, if Scalar em has diffrent characteristics than expected
              and is blocked by magnetic shielding it could well be that this
              device is a Scalar transmitter as claimed.
              Mike



              --- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "Dave N." <dnarby@p...> wrote:
              > Hi Mike (and Harvey/all),
              >
              > This has been on one of my many "back burners" for too long now...
              Since you seem to have a
              > robust technical background perhaps you would want to take a stab
              at it.
              >
              > http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/sclxmtr.htm
              >
              > Reports are it defeats a Faraday cage.
              >
              > Best,
              >
              > Dave Narby
            • Dave N.
              Hi Mike, ... Interesting, do you have a copy of the experiment that shows this anywhere? Because if magnetic induction is causing the effect, it would seem
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 9, 2003
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                Hi Mike,

                | Actually, I met the Caduceus coil some time ago. This design seems to
                | be a bit more refined than the one I remember, but since the
                | disclaimer is identical, it's probably the same person.
                |
                | Yes, the signal will go through a Faraday cage with no trouble, but
                | it is totally blocked by proper magnetic shielding (e.g. mu-metal
                | foil).
                | This leads to the conclusion that the signal is magnetic induction
                | picked up by some component of the radio. In fact, the design
                | reminds me of some of the induction transmitter projects that were
                | popular in the 60s.

                Interesting, do you have a copy of the experiment that shows this anywhere? Because if magnetic
                induction is causing the effect, it would seem that this would be a major problem in just about
                every area of electronics (it just seems to me, on first blush, that magnetic induction is way
                to weak to carry any sort of signal - also, the directionality of the beam reported from
                Caduceus bothers me regarding this explanation). Just my $0.02.

                Coincidentally, this subject just came up on JLN labs, below is the most recent discussion.

                Best,

                Dave

                ======

                Hi

                In Norway we have a new invention. It is a small antenna that is much
                more efficient then normal antennas. It is very small 15 x 15 mm but
                work like a 1 meter antenna.

                It is a ferrite core with some bifilar coil looking antenna. It will
                not loose its strength when you drive in tunnels or Trough Mountains.
                They are now working on a version that will work under water.

                This might be scalar waves, but I am not sure.

                It was shown on NRK (state TV) a week ago.

                http://www.nrk.no/programmer/tv/schrodingers_katt/3038763.html

                They are now testing it on military helicopters, and on sheep. With
                this antenna they can put a transmitter on sheep's and locate them
                with no big antenna when they are down behind rocks.

                Sorry for the link. It is in Norwegian. I have not found an English
                version yet, but you might be able to read the frequency etc. It is
                running on 400MHz.

                Regards
                Svein

                ========

                --- In jlnlabs@yahoogroups.com, "sveinutne" <utne@m...> wrote:
                > Sorry for the link. It is in Norwegian. I have not found an English
                > version yet, but you might be able to read the frequency etc. It is
                > running on 400MHz.

                http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article.jhtml?articleID=609108

                /Rob

                ========

                Is there any new info about this antenna? Anyone's working on it? It seems
                to me that it HAS TO use a bifilar coil, because regular coil would have
                too big inductance at higher frequencies (like 400 MHz). So it would seem
                that this antenna is simply a bifilar coil wound on a ferrite core, and
                the only questions would be how directional it is, and what kind of
                antenna could be used for receiving.

                Cool thing is that it transmits waves that pass through mountains and
                through water. Here's a link to a bad translation of the article:

                http://www.piecemaster.com/zeoez.com//~sci-tech/scalar.htm

                Jaro

                =========

                Rob,
                I also suspect that it makes longitudinal waves. This antenna is pretty
                much shrunken Tesla coil by the use of a ferrite core. It has a primary
                and secondary coils just like Tesla coil. The driving circuit is
                different, but that makes no difference because the secondary coil will
                ring ONLY at its resonant frequency no matter what frequency or waveform
                you'll input into the primary. All other frequencies will be strongly
                attenuated.

                And the ferrite core increases the secondary coil's losses as compared to
                the Tesla coil's air core, which prevents build up of high voltage that
                wouldn't be desirable in a communication equipment.

                The inventor's claim that the signal can pass through rock formations even
                at higher frequencies which normally can't pass, indicates that we're
                dealing here with something else than regular Hertzian waves.

                And if this antenna could transmit through a faraday cage, which I suspect
                is a possibility, this would be the greatest breakthrough in communication
                technology since Marconi! It would prove existence of LONGITUDINAL WAVES,
                and physics books would have to be rewritten. I think I've got some
                ferrite AM antennas and 1 MHz generator here, so I'll do some
                experimenting with it. I'm mainly interested if this thing can be
                shielded.

                Folks, this is an opportunity to experiment with Tesla technology on a
                small scale, without messing with high voltages and bulky and expensive
                capacitors. The secondary winding of this antenna is no different from a
                secondary of a Tesla coil, except for high voltage.
                Here's a link to the patent:
                http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/viewer?PN=WO0245210

                Jaro
              • Harvey Norris
                ... It the previous post I had indicated that this Binary Resonant System I put together using huge induction coils would exhibit some scalar effects. Let me
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 9, 2003
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                  > Yes, the signal will go through a Faraday cage with
                  > no trouble, but
                  > it is totally blocked by proper magnetic shielding
                  > (e.g. mu-metal
                  > foil).
                  > This leads to the conclusion that the signal is
                  > magnetic induction
                  > picked up by some component of the radio. In fact,
                  > the design
                  > reminds me of some of the induction transmitter
                  > projects that were
                  > popular in the 60s.
                  >
                  > Faraday cages will only stop r-f, not magnetic
                  > fields. Likewise, a
                  > thin metal can which will block r-f will not block a
                  > modulated
                  > magnetic field unless the combination of wall
                  > thickness and metal
                  > permeability are sufficient to channel all the lines
                  > of force around
                  > the interior of the can.

                  It the previous post I had indicated that this Binary
                  Resonant System I put together using huge induction
                  coils would exhibit some scalar effects. Let me show
                  what these effects were. Here I suppose that these
                  effects are both magnetic and radio waves, and here is
                  why that is so. Let us first look at the system;

                  Binary Resonant System with ordinary quenched arc gap
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRMA/Dsc00341.jpg


                  Here you will see the two large coils, where by theory
                  they should be producing magnetic fields in
                  opposition. These coils face each other at the poles,
                  and each coil is series connected to a long bank of
                  capacitors in order to resonate at 60 hz. The net
                  effect of having the poles in repulsion is that more
                  magnetic fields are pushed outwards into space on the
                  coil endings. Note the white coil at one of these
                  polar endings. That coil is in the correct orientation
                  to encompass magnetic flux moving through its core
                  volume, so we call that conventional reception.

                  Note that I have said that producing bucking magnetic
                  fields in itself produces no scalar effects. We need a
                  mechanism to throw those coils into high frequency.
                  That mechanism is an arc gap. Each coil has a Q, or
                  internal voltage rise of 15, so for a 120 volt AC
                  input, each coil gets a voltage rise of 15 * 120= 1800
                  volts. In order to produce the high frequency effect
                  however, each coil must be resonated oppositely
                  polarity wise, so that when one coil is producing a
                  positive 1800 volts, the other coil produces a
                  negative 1800 volts, thus making 3600 volts potential
                  difference between them. This is done by "inversely
                  phasing" the series resonances, so that the order of
                  the quantites L and C in series is constructed
                  oppositely in parallel on each side to the same
                  voltage source. Now each side of these resonant
                  circuits consist of a coil and cap bank in series. It
                  is at the middle point of the circuit that the voltage
                  rise effect takes place. Metal bars are attached to
                  each opposite, or 180 phased voltage rise. Each of
                  these metal bars are placed into close proximity so
                  that an arc gap can be made with the available 3600
                  volts potential difference between the systems of
                  inversely phased series resonances.

                  BRS quenched arc gap
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRMA/Dsc00339.jpg

                  Now it doesnt seem to make a difference where we make
                  the arc occur on the bars, where here it occurs close
                  to where the connections from the coil systems
                  originate. If the arc instead occured at the end of
                  the bars, we could conceptially say that this is a
                  scalar set of radio antennas, because they are
                  functioning in opposite polarity regimens. On one bar
                  electrons are going to the ending arc, while on the
                  other bar they are traveling back down the bar in
                  opposite polarity functions. ORDINARILY for the
                  standard scalar thinking, these bars would instead
                  become long antennas where the arc gap was negotiated
                  at the endings of those antennas, and the actual
                  length of those antennas would determine the frequency
                  that was being broadcast. Additionally the mechanism
                  for sending that frequency into the antennas would be
                  totally different, it would be a device that produced
                  a resonance specifically tailor made to the resonant
                  frequency negotiated by the length of the antenna, or
                  in other words it would be a quaterwavelength of the
                  length of the antennas. However none of this is being
                  done here, because the source of the resonant voltage
                  rise is NOT a function of the antennas length, it is
                  instead just a set of opposite resonant voltage rises
                  based on the 60 hz wall supply. As such the system
                  itself DOES NOT BROADCAST ANY PARTICULAR FREQUENCY IN
                  OF ITSELF, INSTEAD IT SIMPLY MAKES EACH RECIEVING
                  INDUCTOR RESONATE AT THAT INDUCTORS OWN NATURAL
                  RESONANT FREQUENCY. We might think of this in terms of
                  harmonics, where the input (radio) frequency is so
                  very low that it merely makes the recieving instrument
                  vibrate at a much higher harmonic. This analogy is
                  only made because folks are used to the idea of a
                  "frequency" being broadcast, but again here that does
                  not take place because no particular frequency is
                  being broadcast, but if it were being braodcasted at
                  60 hz, no conventional recieving instrument would be
                  feasible because of the sizings involved to resonate
                  at 60 hz. The military is probably the only government
                  agency dealing with broadcasts that low in frequency
                  in order to make underwater communications with
                  submarines, but they do not do it as I am doing it
                  here, instead they used a massive buried antenna many
                  miles long according to quarter wavelength schemes,
                  and apparently these signals can be broadcast through
                  the earth itself.

                  Now as also previously mentioned, lets look at the
                  aspect of how magnetic cancellation occurs in TIMING,
                  instead of the more familiar spatial domain. When the
                  arc on the bars occurs, the entire magnetic field that
                  these series resonant coils are making must reverse
                  polarity for a very specific reason. This is because
                  that arc converts the dual series resonances into a
                  single parallel resonance, and further proof has been
                  made that a parallel resonance, or what is called the
                  tank circuit; itself has a magnetic field 180 degrees
                  out of phase with its former condition of series
                  resonance, so that entire magnetic field must collapse
                  and reemerge in space in opposite polarity. This can
                  send a huge rf spike back up the system if we are
                  operating at higher voltages. Here is a schematic of
                  the conditions the circuit sees when the arc occurs,
                  turning the series resonances into a solitary figure 8
                  tank circuit.
                  Binary Resonant Tank Schematic
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRS/BRT.jpg

                  Now the very UNIQUE aspect of this resonant voltage
                  rise circuit is that is does not work backwards like
                  the more familiar ferromagnetic transformer method
                  does. If we have a step up transformer when we operate
                  it in the correct direction it gives a voltage rise,
                  but if we operate it in a backwards direction it then
                  acts like a step down transformer. This circuit does
                  not do that; because of its symmetry it is the same
                  thing or function from the outside-in, as it is from
                  the inside-out. Operating the circuit backwards will
                  only give another voltage rise, not a step down of
                  voltage! This means that when the arc between series
                  resonances occurs, if the arc is large enough it will
                  act to create a voltage rise back towards its origin,
                  where destructive electrical explosions then occur.
                  This was seen by using a 440 transformer input into
                  the BRS, to procur a 1.5 cm arc between arc bars;

                  1.5 cm Needle Arc Gap
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/KCB/Dzl21B3.jpg

                  Now as noted the moment this arc occurs, the entire
                  magnetic field collapses upon itself and then
                  reemmerges in opposite polarity. There being 20,000
                  winds on each coil this instantly changing magnetic
                  field creates one hell of a lot of voltage back
                  towards its source, for what they call a rf kickback.
                  It this instance that rf kickback a split second later
                  goes through the step up transformer backwards to the
                  primary connections and creates an electrical
                  explosion at the transformers primary plug, where
                  seemingly going backwards through that transformer has
                  not stepped the voltage down much, or we wouldnt be
                  seeing these effects;

                  Ordinary Kickback
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/KCB/Dzl6344.jpg

                  Bigger Kickback
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/KCB/Dzl4356.jpg


                  Having explained this system somewhat, now we can
                  explain some of the actual longitudinal and scalar
                  effects. We are going from a South-South magnetic
                  compression on the equatorial plane between the coils
                  to a seemingly instant North-North magnetic
                  compression. We can put a coil sensor on this 3
                  dimensional plane, and put it in the orientation with
                  the loops parallel to the coil systems loops to
                  encompass flux change from the systems magnetic field.
                  The we can gradually move the sensing coil away from
                  the coil system distance wise, while still staying in
                  the area of the equatorial plane. All of a sudden at a
                  certain area of space we find that the signal has
                  completely vanished! This is the scalar effect, where
                  that cancellation of fields shows itself! It is in
                  this area of space where we can turn the coil sensor
                  perpendicular to the coil systems loops, and the
                  signal then reappears, but the shape of the signal may
                  no longer appear as the characteristic sinusoidal
                  shape. Because the recieving coil now has its loops
                  "lengthwise" to the imagined flux change, we can call
                  that a longitudinal reception. Along this equatorial
                  plane we will recieve either conventional or
                  longitudinal reception, but not both at the same time.
                  If we move the sensor further outwards from the point
                  where we first detected the longitudinal reception, it
                  to vanishes and then conventional reception can be
                  picked up. Going further out along the plane this
                  happens again and the conventioanl reception vanishes
                  and the longitudinal reaction takes its place. In this
                  way of folded cancellations occuring we can go quite
                  far away from the coil system itself, and still be
                  picking up a signal, supposedly far beyoind the
                  effective distance of that systems magnetic fields. In
                  fact by using the body as an antenna these signals can
                  still be picked up on the other side of the house, but
                  not necessarily in that equatorial plane. Now three of
                  these longitudinal planes exist around the coil
                  system, where two more are found perpendicular at
                  right angles to the ending coil poles also. At other
                  areas of space around the coil system this
                  cancellation effect does not seem to exist, but there
                  we can compare both the conventional AND longitudinal
                  signals because they co-exist in the same space, but
                  at a slightly different frequency.

                  Near the polar area of the coil we can compare the
                  signal's reception for both cases of longitudinal and
                  conventional reception

                  Bifilar spiral coil/ conventional reception for rf
                  ringdown/ 1x probe/ .2 volt/div;10 us/div
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRS/Dsc00354.jpg


                  Note that about 3.5 cycles are being recorded in 100
                  us.

                  Bifilar spiral coil/ longitudinal reception for rf
                  ringdown/ 1 x probe/ .2 volt/div: 10 us /div
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRS/Dsc00355.jpg


                  Note that in the incorrect orientation, the signal is
                  actually stronger, and the unusual shape of the first
                  cycle for longitudinal reception, and also most
                  perplexingly, a different frequency is being recorded,
                  since now we see only 2 3/4 cycles in 100 us. This
                  inductor recieves its vibrations near the 30,000 hz
                  range, but we can see the the vibration is changing
                  relative to the angle of the inductor towards the coil
                  system.

                  Now let us look at the same differences for a 11 mh
                  coil of 500 ft of 14 gauge wire for the same polar
                  area...
                  BRS Scoping of Conventional EM Rf Spike on 11 mh coil:
                  10x probe @ 20volts/div; 1us/div
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRS/Dsc00348.jpg


                  Here the coil records an entirely different vibration
                  where ~1.8 cycles occur in 10 us, or about 180,000 hz,
                  at only ~ just over 20 volts peak

                  BRS Scoping of Longitudinal EM Rf spike on 11 mh coil:
                  10x probe @ 50 volts/div; 1us/div
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRS/Dsc00349.jpg


                  Here we have turned the coil vertically to the
                  imagined flux change, yet the second half of the cycle
                  is showing near a 150 volt peak!

                  A few more of thes kind of coil signatures can be
                  found at
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/BRS/

                  The double AC signatures found at the high frequency
                  sweeps are due to the midpoint arc happening at
                  roughly 2 times per 60 hz ac signal, so it occurs both
                  on the positive and negative portions of that AC
                  cycle, giving two inverted AC high frequency
                  ringdowns. These scoped signals would have appeared
                  much better had I instead used a higher then wall
                  voltage input to the coil system, in which case more
                  then the two rf bursts /cycle would have occured.

                  After prolonged exposure to these fields I had a
                  problem with hearing a clicking noise inside my head,
                  or like an inner ear problem. The human nervous
                  system, having a left and right hemispherical brain
                  functions seems like it might be somewhat like a
                  scalar magnifier of signals. I could stick my finger
                  through the 30,000 hz inductor on the other side of
                  the house from where these effects were being made,
                  and the scope would then record the signal, similar to
                  the one shown here,

                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/files/MED/Dsc00452.jpg


                  This is probably an effect very similar to what occurs
                  when you touch a radio antenna and the reception of
                  the signal improoves.

                  Sincerely HDN







                  =====
                  Tesla Research Group; Pioneering the Applications of Interphasal Resonances http://groups.yahoo.com/group/teslafy/
                • alostclown
                  Actually, magnetic noise can be a very definite problem when working with r-f receivers, especially the i-f sections that have inductors. In a/c powered
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 9, 2003
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                    Actually, magnetic noise can be a very definite problem when working
                    with r-f receivers, especially the i-f sections that have inductors.
                    In a/c powered equipment, layout and shielding can be critical.
                    I was a test equipment designer for a major avionics manufacturer at
                    the time I built the cadecues coil, and magnetic induction from a
                    drill with bad brushes operated some distance away had knocked some
                    of the test equipment bonkers.
                    The reason I had a supply of mu-metal foil was to test ways of
                    effectively shielding the system from magnetic interference.

                    Remember that the distance between that metal can (the original
                    article suggested a band aid can, if I remember correctly) is not
                    very great. Magnetic effects do fall off faster than r-f, but at
                    close range, magnetic effects are potent.

                    Try this experiment: build a normal induction coil, drive it with an
                    audio signal through an amplifier resembling the amp circuit in
                    the "scalar transmitter". Set up the conditions specified in
                    the "test" in the article, and see if you still get the sound from
                    the radio in the can when using an ordinary coil.

                    This would probably work just as well if you drive the electro magnet
                    with line current because most cheap battery am radios don't filter
                    for 60 Hz. Try it and if you get 60 hz noise swamping the radio
                    stations in the radio outside the can, put it in the can and see what
                    happens.

                    Also, note that magnetic induction was not addressed at all in the
                    article about the transmitter, only r-f. I doubt that the author
                    considered magnetic noise any more than the design engineers of my
                    experience. A common error is that when thinking of r-f you don't
                    consider other types of radiation or fields.

                    I'm afraid I don't have a copy of my original notes. That was many
                    years ago, and the notes, like the coil itself have long been
                    discarded. Besides, the last part of the experiment was very brief.
                    The sound from the transmitter passed muster with a band aid can, so
                    I decided to take it to work and try it with mu-metal, which would
                    eliminate the possibility of magnetic induction. A double layer of
                    foil totally killed the signal and my interest in the Caduceus coil
                    along with it.
                    Mike
                    --- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "Dave N." <dnarby@p...> wrote:
                    > Hi Mike,
                    >
                    > | Actually, I met the Caduceus coil some time ago. This design
                    seems to
                    > | be a bit more refined than the one I remember, but since the
                    > | disclaimer is identical, it's probably the same person.
                    > |
                    > | Yes, the signal will go through a Faraday cage with no trouble,
                    but
                    > | it is totally blocked by proper magnetic shielding (e.g. mu-metal
                    > | foil).
                    > | This leads to the conclusion that the signal is magnetic induction
                    > | picked up by some component of the radio. In fact, the design
                    > | reminds me of some of the induction transmitter projects that were
                    > | popular in the 60s.
                    >
                    > Interesting, do you have a copy of the experiment that shows this
                    anywhere? Because if magnetic
                    > induction is causing the effect, it would seem that this would be a
                    major problem in just about
                    > every area of electronics (it just seems to me, on first blush,
                    that magnetic induction is way
                    > to weak to carry any sort of signal - also, the directionality of
                    the beam reported from
                    > Caduceus bothers me regarding this explanation). Just my $0.02.
                    >
                    > Coincidentally, this subject just came up on JLN labs, below is the
                    most recent discussion.
                    >
                    > Best,
                    >
                    > Dave
                    >
                    > ======
                    >
                    > Hi
                    >
                    > In Norway we have a new invention. It is a small antenna that is
                    much
                    > more efficient then normal antennas. It is very small 15 x 15 mm but
                    > work like a 1 meter antenna.
                    >
                    > It is a ferrite core with some bifilar coil looking antenna. It will
                    > not loose its strength when you drive in tunnels or Trough
                    Mountains.
                    > They are now working on a version that will work under water.
                    >
                    > This might be scalar waves, but I am not sure.
                    >
                    > It was shown on NRK (state TV) a week ago.
                    >
                    > http://www.nrk.no/programmer/tv/schrodingers_katt/3038763.html
                    >
                    > They are now testing it on military helicopters, and on sheep. With
                    > this antenna they can put a transmitter on sheep's and locate them
                    > with no big antenna when they are down behind rocks.
                    >
                    > Sorry for the link. It is in Norwegian. I have not found an English
                    > version yet, but you might be able to read the frequency etc. It is
                    > running on 400MHz.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > Svein
                    >
                    > ========
                    >
                    > --- In jlnlabs@yahoogroups.com, "sveinutne" <utne@m...> wrote:
                    > > Sorry for the link. It is in Norwegian. I have not found an
                    English
                    > > version yet, but you might be able to read the frequency etc. It
                    is
                    > > running on 400MHz.
                    >
                    > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article.jhtml?
                    articleID=609108
                    >
                    > /Rob
                    >
                    > ========
                    >
                    > Is there any new info about this antenna? Anyone's working on it?
                    It seems
                    > to me that it HAS TO use a bifilar coil, because regular coil would
                    have
                    > too big inductance at higher frequencies (like 400 MHz). So it
                    would seem
                    > that this antenna is simply a bifilar coil wound on a ferrite core,
                    and
                    > the only questions would be how directional it is, and what kind of
                    > antenna could be used for receiving.
                    >
                    > Cool thing is that it transmits waves that pass through mountains
                    and
                    > through water. Here's a link to a bad translation of the article:
                    >
                    > http://www.piecemaster.com/zeoez.com//~sci-tech/scalar.htm
                    >
                    > Jaro
                    >
                    > =========
                    >
                    > Rob,
                    > I also suspect that it makes longitudinal waves. This antenna is
                    pretty
                    > much shrunken Tesla coil by the use of a ferrite core. It has a
                    primary
                    > and secondary coils just like Tesla coil. The driving circuit is
                    > different, but that makes no difference because the secondary coil
                    will
                    > ring ONLY at its resonant frequency no matter what frequency or
                    waveform
                    > you'll input into the primary. All other frequencies will be
                    strongly
                    > attenuated.
                    >
                    > And the ferrite core increases the secondary coil's losses as
                    compared to
                    > the Tesla coil's air core, which prevents build up of high voltage
                    that
                    > wouldn't be desirable in a communication equipment.
                    >
                    > The inventor's claim that the signal can pass through rock
                    formations even
                    > at higher frequencies which normally can't pass, indicates that
                    we're
                    > dealing here with something else than regular Hertzian waves.
                    >
                    > And if this antenna could transmit through a faraday cage, which I
                    suspect
                    > is a possibility, this would be the greatest breakthrough in
                    communication
                    > technology since Marconi! It would prove existence of LONGITUDINAL
                    WAVES,
                    > and physics books would have to be rewritten. I think I've got some
                    > ferrite AM antennas and 1 MHz generator here, so I'll do some
                    > experimenting with it. I'm mainly interested if this thing can be
                    > shielded.
                    >
                    > Folks, this is an opportunity to experiment with Tesla technology
                    on a
                    > small scale, without messing with high voltages and bulky and
                    expensive
                    > capacitors. The secondary winding of this antenna is no different
                    from a
                    > secondary of a Tesla coil, except for high voltage.
                    > Here's a link to the patent:
                    > http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/viewer?PN=WO0245210
                    >
                    > Jaro
                  • Dave N.
                    Hi Mike, Sorry to hear you don t have your notes from your experiment anymore as I m sure yours differed from the one I referenced - which admittedly is
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 10, 2003
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                      Hi Mike,

                      Sorry to hear you don't have your notes from your experiment anymore as I'm sure yours differed
                      from the one I referenced - which admittedly is painfully sketchy,
                      http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/sclxmtr.htm
                      it talks about the metal box being "sufficiently thick", but no reference to how thick, control
                      experiments, etc.

                      However, the anecdotal "verification" at the end talks about test firing the device into a
                      screened *room*, which if it was the case, indicates considerable distance as opposed to a bench
                      top experiment. While I am disappointed with the lack of information, I'm still optimistic that
                      "something else" was possibly going on there.

                      No comments on the Norwegian invention or Harvey's experimental data?

                      Best,

                      Dave

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "alostclown" <alostclown@...>
                      To: <teslafy@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:11 AM
                      Subject: [teslafy] Re: Puzzlement over scalar waves


                      | Actually, magnetic noise can be a very definite problem when working
                      | with r-f receivers, especially the i-f sections that have inductors.
                      | In a/c powered equipment, layout and shielding can be critical.
                      | I was a test equipment designer for a major avionics manufacturer at
                      | the time I built the cadecues coil, and magnetic induction from a
                      | drill with bad brushes operated some distance away had knocked some
                      | of the test equipment bonkers.
                      | The reason I had a supply of mu-metal foil was to test ways of
                      | effectively shielding the system from magnetic interference.
                      |
                      | Remember that the distance between that metal can (the original
                      | article suggested a band aid can, if I remember correctly) is not
                      | very great. Magnetic effects do fall off faster than r-f, but at
                      | close range, magnetic effects are potent.
                      |
                      | Try this experiment: build a normal induction coil, drive it with an
                      | audio signal through an amplifier resembling the amp circuit in
                      | the "scalar transmitter". Set up the conditions specified in
                      | the "test" in the article, and see if you still get the sound from
                      | the radio in the can when using an ordinary coil.
                      |
                      | This would probably work just as well if you drive the electro magnet
                      | with line current because most cheap battery am radios don't filter
                      | for 60 Hz. Try it and if you get 60 hz noise swamping the radio
                      | stations in the radio outside the can, put it in the can and see what
                      | happens.
                      |
                      | Also, note that magnetic induction was not addressed at all in the
                      | article about the transmitter, only r-f. I doubt that the author
                      | considered magnetic noise any more than the design engineers of my
                      | experience. A common error is that when thinking of r-f you don't
                      | consider other types of radiation or fields.
                      |
                      | I'm afraid I don't have a copy of my original notes. That was many
                      | years ago, and the notes, like the coil itself have long been
                      | discarded. Besides, the last part of the experiment was very brief.
                      | The sound from the transmitter passed muster with a band aid can, so
                      | I decided to take it to work and try it with mu-metal, which would
                      | eliminate the possibility of magnetic induction. A double layer of
                      | foil totally killed the signal and my interest in the Caduceus coil
                      | along with it.
                      | Mike
                      | --- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "Dave N." <dnarby@p...> wrote:
                      | > Hi Mike,
                      | >
                      | > | Actually, I met the Caduceus coil some time ago. This design
                      | seems to
                      | > | be a bit more refined than the one I remember, but since the
                      | > | disclaimer is identical, it's probably the same person.
                      | > |
                      | > | Yes, the signal will go through a Faraday cage with no trouble,
                      | but
                      | > | it is totally blocked by proper magnetic shielding (e.g. mu-metal
                      | > | foil).
                      | > | This leads to the conclusion that the signal is magnetic induction
                      | > | picked up by some component of the radio. In fact, the design
                      | > | reminds me of some of the induction transmitter projects that were
                      | > | popular in the 60s.
                      | >
                      | > Interesting, do you have a copy of the experiment that shows this
                      | anywhere? Because if magnetic
                      | > induction is causing the effect, it would seem that this would be a
                      | major problem in just about
                      | > every area of electronics (it just seems to me, on first blush,
                      | that magnetic induction is way
                      | > to weak to carry any sort of signal - also, the directionality of
                      | the beam reported from
                      | > Caduceus bothers me regarding this explanation). Just my $0.02.
                      | >
                      | > Coincidentally, this subject just came up on JLN labs, below is the
                      | most recent discussion.
                      | >
                      | > Best,
                      | >
                      | > Dave
                      | >
                      | > ======
                      | >
                      | > Hi
                      | >
                      | > In Norway we have a new invention. It is a small antenna that is
                      | much
                      | > more efficient then normal antennas. It is very small 15 x 15 mm but
                      | > work like a 1 meter antenna.
                      | >
                      | > It is a ferrite core with some bifilar coil looking antenna. It will
                      | > not loose its strength when you drive in tunnels or Trough
                      | Mountains.
                      | > They are now working on a version that will work under water.
                      | >
                      | > This might be scalar waves, but I am not sure.
                      | >
                      | > It was shown on NRK (state TV) a week ago.
                      | >
                      | > http://www.nrk.no/programmer/tv/schrodingers_katt/3038763.html
                      | >
                      | > They are now testing it on military helicopters, and on sheep. With
                      | > this antenna they can put a transmitter on sheep's and locate them
                      | > with no big antenna when they are down behind rocks.
                      | >
                      | > Sorry for the link. It is in Norwegian. I have not found an English
                      | > version yet, but you might be able to read the frequency etc. It is
                      | > running on 400MHz.
                      | >
                      | > Regards
                      | > Svein
                      | >
                      | > ========
                      | >
                      | > --- In jlnlabs@yahoogroups.com, "sveinutne" <utne@m...> wrote:
                      | > > Sorry for the link. It is in Norwegian. I have not found an
                      | English
                      | > > version yet, but you might be able to read the frequency etc. It
                      | is
                      | > > running on 400MHz.
                      | >
                      | > http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article.jhtml?
                      | articleID=609108
                      | >
                      | > /Rob
                      | >
                      | > ========
                      | >
                      | > Is there any new info about this antenna? Anyone's working on it?
                      | It seems
                      | > to me that it HAS TO use a bifilar coil, because regular coil would
                      | have
                      | > too big inductance at higher frequencies (like 400 MHz). So it
                      | would seem
                      | > that this antenna is simply a bifilar coil wound on a ferrite core,
                      | and
                      | > the only questions would be how directional it is, and what kind of
                      | > antenna could be used for receiving.
                      | >
                      | > Cool thing is that it transmits waves that pass through mountains
                      | and
                      | > through water. Here's a link to a bad translation of the article:
                      | >
                      | > http://www.piecemaster.com/zeoez.com//~sci-tech/scalar.htm
                      | >
                      | > Jaro
                      | >
                      | > =========
                      | >
                      | > Rob,
                      | > I also suspect that it makes longitudinal waves. This antenna is
                      | pretty
                      | > much shrunken Tesla coil by the use of a ferrite core. It has a
                      | primary
                      | > and secondary coils just like Tesla coil. The driving circuit is
                      | > different, but that makes no difference because the secondary coil
                      | will
                      | > ring ONLY at its resonant frequency no matter what frequency or
                      | waveform
                      | > you'll input into the primary. All other frequencies will be
                      | strongly
                      | > attenuated.
                      | >
                      | > And the ferrite core increases the secondary coil's losses as
                      | compared to
                      | > the Tesla coil's air core, which prevents build up of high voltage
                      | that
                      | > wouldn't be desirable in a communication equipment.
                      | >
                      | > The inventor's claim that the signal can pass through rock
                      | formations even
                      | > at higher frequencies which normally can't pass, indicates that
                      | we're
                      | > dealing here with something else than regular Hertzian waves.
                      | >
                      | > And if this antenna could transmit through a faraday cage, which I
                      | suspect
                      | > is a possibility, this would be the greatest breakthrough in
                      | communication
                      | > technology since Marconi! It would prove existence of LONGITUDINAL
                      | WAVES,
                      | > and physics books would have to be rewritten. I think I've got some
                      | > ferrite AM antennas and 1 MHz generator here, so I'll do some
                      | > experimenting with it. I'm mainly interested if this thing can be
                      | > shielded.
                      | >
                      | > Folks, this is an opportunity to experiment with Tesla technology
                      | on a
                      | > small scale, without messing with high voltages and bulky and
                      | expensive
                      | > capacitors. The secondary winding of this antenna is no different
                      | from a
                      | > secondary of a Tesla coil, except for high voltage.
                      | > Here's a link to the patent:
                      | > http://l2.espacenet.com/espacenet/viewer?PN=WO0245210
                      | >
                      | > Jaro
                      |
                      |
                      |
                      | To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      | teslafy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      |
                      |
                      |
                      | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      |
                      |
                    • alostclown
                      The screen room is the faraday cage, and I did test that. Signal went right through. Same will happen with an electromagnet at 60Hz, cause it s a field
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
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                        The "screen room" is the faraday cage, and I did test that. Signal
                        went right through. Same will happen with an electromagnet at 60Hz,
                        cause it's a field effect. R-f is easy to shield. A faraday cage
                        (grounded screen) or a faraday box, the r-f is either reflected or
                        formms a dipole from the material and shorts itself out. R-f is
                        effectively a capacitive effect, not magnetic.
                        Magnetic effects are a whole different matter.
                        A screen room does nothing at all to stop magnetics. Metal that is
                        not thick enough is not going to stop them, because if the lines
                        saturate the metal of the box, they will go throug the interior of
                        the box.
                        From what I saw of that scope trace, which was not explained, the
                        potential across that coil was on the order of 60V and a resistance
                        of probably a few miliohms, that's one hellish current per turn, and
                        translates to a very intense field.
                        So a shield that would stop a srong f-f field won't do a thing with
                        that mag. field. The band-aid can had no trouble with the ambient
                        rg (microvolts) but a massive e-m pulse would go through it like
                        butter, even from the caduceus coil. But mu-metal, with the highest
                        known permeability of any metal alloy stoped it with a thickness of
                        two layers of foil (about the same thickness of standard aluminum
                        foil, but a permeability equal to several mm of iron) stopped the
                        signal.
                        Hence conclusion that either the theory was wrong or the signal was
                        magnetic in nature.
                        The sad part is, I'd really love to see something that showed a new
                        form of energy that didn't take the super-collider to manipulate.
                        NEW TOY, NEW TOY!!!!!!!
                        Problem is, many "detectors" that claim to show scalar effects would
                        be likely to respond to static fields and gravity waves (in fact, one
                        would probably have worked extrememly well for gravity waves).
                        I keep hoping though.
                      • Dave N.
                        Mike, Well, if all you want is to see is some magic quick and easy like... Try this: http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/ Harvey has done some stuff with water
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 13, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Mike,

                          Well, if all you want is to see is some "magic" quick and easy like... Try this:

                          http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/

                          Harvey has done some stuff with water discharges also.

                          Enjoy,

                          Dave

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "alostclown" <alostclown@...>
                          To: <teslafy@yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2003 8:56 PM
                          Subject: [teslafy] Re: Puzzlement over scalar waves


                          | The "screen room" is the faraday cage, and I did test that. Signal
                          | went right through. Same will happen with an electromagnet at 60Hz,
                          | cause it's a field effect. R-f is easy to shield. A faraday cage
                          | (grounded screen) or a faraday box, the r-f is either reflected or
                          | formms a dipole from the material and shorts itself out. R-f is
                          | effectively a capacitive effect, not magnetic.
                          | Magnetic effects are a whole different matter.
                          | A screen room does nothing at all to stop magnetics. Metal that is
                          | not thick enough is not going to stop them, because if the lines
                          | saturate the metal of the box, they will go throug the interior of
                          | the box.
                          | From what I saw of that scope trace, which was not explained, the
                          | potential across that coil was on the order of 60V and a resistance
                          | of probably a few miliohms, that's one hellish current per turn, and
                          | translates to a very intense field.
                          | So a shield that would stop a srong f-f field won't do a thing with
                          | that mag. field. The band-aid can had no trouble with the ambient
                          | rg (microvolts) but a massive e-m pulse would go through it like
                          | butter, even from the caduceus coil. But mu-metal, with the highest
                          | known permeability of any metal alloy stoped it with a thickness of
                          | two layers of foil (about the same thickness of standard aluminum
                          | foil, but a permeability equal to several mm of iron) stopped the
                          | signal.
                          | Hence conclusion that either the theory was wrong or the signal was
                          | magnetic in nature.
                          | The sad part is, I'd really love to see something that showed a new
                          | form of energy that didn't take the super-collider to manipulate.
                          | NEW TOY, NEW TOY!!!!!!!
                          | Problem is, many "detectors" that claim to show scalar effects would
                          | be likely to respond to static fields and gravity waves (in fact, one
                          | would probably have worked extrememly well for gravity waves).
                          | I keep hoping though.
                          |
                          |
                          |
                          |
                          | To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          | teslafy-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          |
                          |
                          |
                          | Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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