## Re: Oscillations of Energy.

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• ... though there is a great deal of energy interaction going on their is no net gain or loss if a perfect system is assumed but in a real world system there
Message 1 of 3 , Aug 30, 2003
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--- In teslafy@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Johnston" <enki@c...> wrote:
> Hi,
> Or, more probably they will cancel each other out and even
though there is a great deal of energy interaction going on their is
no net gain or loss if a perfect system is assumed but in a real
world system there will be an overall loss due to various factors,
resistance in an electrical system being the most obvious. AC
electricity is an example of this.
> MJ
Very astute observation Mike. However here's something that you may
not account for in sizings of components. We could call this the
Norris Theorem, in formation;
FOR ANY PARTICULAR DESIGNATED FREQUENCY: THERE IS A CERTAIN POINT OF
RESONATING INDUCTANCE, NORMALLY A VERY HIGH INDUCTANCE AT 60 HZ
APPLICATION, WHEREBY WITH THIS LARGER VALUE OF INDUCTANCE, THE ENERGY
TRANSFER RATE BETWEEN ELECTRIC AND MAGNETIC FIELDS WILL EXCEED THE
ENERGY TRANSFER RATE TO HEAT, AS DESIGNATED BY I^2R HEAT LOSSES, AS
EXPRESSED BY THE JOULES/SEC WATTAGE EQUIVALENTS.

Let us take the example of the 1000 ohm, 60 henry coil resonating at
60 hz. It uses .12 uf for resonance as the C value. The
greatest "limiting factor" in multiturn coils to produce large
inductance, is the internal capacity between windings. The reduces
the possible amount of resonance that occurs, by the ratio of the
acting q factor vs the theoretical q vfactor made by book
calaculations. For the 60 henry coil having an impedance of 20,000
ohms @ 60 hz vs 1000 ohms R value, this gives a theoretical Q of 20,
but the acting Q is 15, so right from the beginning this available
energy transfer has becomed limited to what will occur in the "real
world" situation. The real world situation shows that 25% of the
available resonance does not become available from these losses. Yet
we can still find that for this case that the energy transfer between
fields exceeds the energy transfer wasted as heat. When we resonate
this 1000 ohm coil, we should expect 120 ma to occur with a 20 fold
voltage gain, but instead we obtain a 80 ma current with a 15 fold
voltage gain. Thus I becomes .08 A and I^R becomes 6.4 watts.

15 fold the voltage across the capacity is 1800 volt for V in the
quantity .5CV^2, repesenting the stored energy in the capacity as;
.5*[1.2*10^-7]*1800^2 = .1944 joules which transfers energy to
magnetic field at the rate of 120 times per second, or 23.3 joules
per second, or 23 watts of energy oscillation between fields, which
is still over 3 times the energy that is truely expended which is 6.4
watts.

The changes in action for these same coils at 480 hz is severe, so
that ordinarily the acting Q factor is only 5 % of the theoretical Q,
which would be about 160. This about a 15 fold reduction in the q
factor in going from 60 hz to 480. Methods of making opposing
magnetic fields in resonance can increase the q factor to about 10%,
or a Q of 16, or about a 7.5 fold decrease in the acting q
factor/theoretical Q as found at 60 hz. BUT, both of these q factors
are still rougly the same for the special circumstance. What was
being compared was only the "ratio" of reduction of q factors from
the theoretical one made by calculation. Thus at 480 hz compared to
60 hz, even though the internal capacitive impedance losses are
massive, there is still the possibility that the energy transfer will
excced the heat transfer, because the ACTING Q factors have remained
near identical.

Now we have again reference to the capacitive storage term, .5CV^2.
For cases of making comparisons at 60 hz vs 480 hz, the exponential
term V^2 will remain the same, however the C value exponentially goes
into the reverse direction, so that now instead of 8 times less
capacity, we need 64 times less capacity.(actually more than 64 in
real world actions) This is somewhat compensated for by the fact that
now once the amount of energy storage is found, it will have an 8
fold higher multiplier factor then the 60 hz consideration.

So at first glance it looks like at 480 hz, the energies in
oscillation might not exceed the energy expended as heat. Perhaps
these reckonings indicate a smaller frequency with less losses might
be desirable.

This same above argument using the value of .5LI^2 as the energy
transfer term should apply, since .5CV^2=.5LI^2 at resonance.

However a special circumstance exists for the high induction coils
resonance , which is what makes the capacity smaller then the
theoretically 64 fold reduced derived value @ 480 hz, hence limiting
the energy transfer term on that side of things. However on the
inductor portion of energy transfer, there is a problem that it
appears more reactive then it should be hence it is acting with a
higher L term, making for a higher energy transfer when considered on
that side of the equation. Perhaps this has a lot to do with the
coils internal capacity, as coils of this nature use less capacity
then would be predicted by theoretical calaculations to resonate when
the frequency is increased

HDN
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